Wow bread is that expensive in the UK

Are the RADCALS and play field protector must have add on's?

I agree w/ you Joe 100%. Well said!!!

Now ill go back to drinking my Woot Stout and reading pinside for entertainment lol

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IT's really pretty simple. Back before Grease had their financial troubles... the Euro was as high as 1.5x the USD (see mid 2014)... so those chaps were just happy to buy at USD exchange rates and even with the 20%VAT they still came ahead with a significant discount.

Now with the Post Brexit Euro... it's now trading at 1.1 usd to euro. So now the chaps across the pond have can no longer absorb the 20% vat... they actually end up paying another 10% to cover their tax. Painful yeap... but it's mainly because they have enjoyed a nice exchange rate that is no longer in their favor. I can't imagine what'll happen when the euro is on par or worse than the USD.

Please keep us posted as to where this pin is available to play. It's expensive but JJP puts extra quality in their games so I might buy one - though it is a stretch at 9k. As I answer phones all day long the ringing phone would be a deal breaker for me
but JJP will probably have a way to cut this off or at least change the ring tone - maybe a lights only mode on the phone surround.

Yeah, that would be the most impressive march on parliament ever... wealthy gentlemen demand pension cuts [or insert other program here] to make their luxury toy purchases less expensive? That's not exactly the stuff revolutions are made of .

they should make the phone have a silent option so it makes a vibrate buzz instead

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Joe, why do you mention how well Dialed In is selling in this preorder thread? It's basically a non limited release so there is no urgency to preorder. I have a sales background and don't understand this tactic. I took it that I should preorder because everyone else is at a record rate. I'll admit that comment rubbed me the wrong way so I figured I might as well ask.

I don't sell to UK regardless not sure why you would post here.

This is a forum and an ad. But forget the UK I'm really talking about $ price in the US. I just want to see JJP and pinball sell as many games as possible. We will see what Jack does. If he doesn't eat a large slice of humble pie he's heading for trouble. Just my opinion. On the positive side I have seem more videos of the game and have been very impressed by the gameplay and lightshow.

I think Joe was trying to address all the people that are claiming Dialed In is way too expensive for anyone to ever consider buying. His point is that people ARE buying it.

I think some pinsiders are failing to realize that this is a supply and demand equation and JJP is probably hitting exactly where they want to. The game clearly has a BOM stacked with features, technology and toys, and they have priced it where they feel it fits within the market. If everyone who saw the game or read about it on pinside ordered Dialed In, they would have a big problem because they can't produce enough to meet that kind of demand. JJP needs to set their price at the point where they get enough orders to meet their production capabilities. If they get less than that, they have product they can't sell. If they get significantly more, that means they didn't charge enough and are wasting resources.

My guess is they are sitting just where they want to be on this one.

-Jay

I read the UK pinball forum yesterday and it was unanimous that the NIB pinball business from US firms is now just about dead. Even the sole UK JJP distributor said he was not going to EAG London in January. ( Our biggest amusement machine show ) He has been there the last few years. He reckons that he wouldn't sell to ONE operator. Big taxes and exchange rates are problems but so is the initial cost of games.

We can speculate all we want about this... but when you have Jack, on stage, announce 2 prices... one being $9k and one 12.5k.... it's really hard to believe that they're pricing purely off BOM.

This has been argued in a bazillion other threads, but there's no way this kind of pricing is good for pinball in the long run. And if there truly are thousands upon thousands of collectors climbing over themselves to send Jack $9k to $12.5k, then good for them. Is that sustainable? I guess we'll find out.

I bought WOZ thru Joe... he was super easy to deal with. I would buy from him again... but my wallet is closed on these prices.

I guess my message to Jack is: make your pricing consumer friendly.

Ok...I will chime in and no offense to the OP. I've heard nothing but really great things about Joe (despite ever buying from him).

I love JJP...their machines are top notch. I owned a WoZ and now own a Hobbit. In terms of quality, I feel the machines are leaps and bounds ahead of Stern and are worth a little more. However, I am in the camp that 9k is far too much for the machine. All of these machine prices have gotten out of control. I think $7000-$7500 could be the sweet spot for this pin - still a lot of money but more reasonable.

I've been very tempted to put down a $250 deposit, and hope later that JJP evaluates the pricing and lowers it. However, I am not going to do that, because I feel that by putting down a deposit we are giving the "OK" to the price.

Someone else suggested the following and I like it: while I don't particularly care for the pre-order model, I would be more willing to put down a larger deposit by a certain date/time to receive a lower cost on the game, with the knowledge that after that time the price will go up (similar to The Hobbit). I think JJP could be more likely to keep pre-orders in that regards, because even if someone wants to back out after after said pricing "deadline" chances are someone will want to take over that pre-order to be eligible for the lower price.

Joe - thanks for being a great guy in the industry and allowing your for sale thread to become a place of respectful discussion

My suspicion is that jack may not be in full control of pricing. He has an investor that has put a lot of money in and that investor has a return on investment target with a timeframe to achieve it. The pricing is likely reflective of that, at least partly. The investor may or may not care about the pinball industry overall and may only focus on ROI.

Time will tell what the effect of these high prices will be on pinball, but i see little reason to be complaining. You dont like the price, dont buy it. Enough people share that view, price will fall.

There is no arguing with this logic, but it is at least a bit fun to discuss.

The price is the price; buy it or don't.

But if entire sections of the global market seem to be dropping off, maybe the price really is too high. We'll all find out within a year I guess.

And :

That's a proper level of snarkiness I think?

Good posts. A nightmare scenario with this payment model is hundreds/thousands canceling in Spring. These days of social media people may get together to make a point. When Jack started many people thought they were a real part of a new adventure. Not just customers in a numbers sense. I believe that feeling has been lost for many first in a small way with the WOZ RR and now with too big a price on game 3. If was mentioned that Stern can stand one machine being a fail. But they release 3+ games a year.

Has anyone else noticed that that Pat has ripped the lines up the playfield from Wizard Blocks? 16 years on but he got it in there.

Agreed

Thanks for your reply. That is a nice change that only $250 is required, plus refundable. You have every right to be excited as a distributor. I can't commit yet, but hope to make it to the release party.

If you are referring to the inserts, yes.

Guys, haven't you heard? The reviews are IN! From who? Who knows? But they're IN! It's a wIN!ner!

Only nIN!e thousand dollars and you can see for yourself! Who's IN!?

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If they were from pinheads wives I would be impressed !

"So good the wife happily gave up 9k from the kitchen remodeling fund" - whippedpinballer21

Talked to Jack recently, he said they'll have some updated news on Dialed IN on saturday during the live stream

How many NIB machines are you currently in the market for? Better yet, how many were you dead set on buying before October 15th? Zero, right?

I have 2 dogs. One is misbehaving. If this lady picks up another matching from you, let me know.

I think we can work something out that's mutually beneficial.

"In the market" is, in large part, based on price. You threw out $5K, so I'll just say that if Dialed In was $5K, I'd buy one today. If I hated it, I could move it quickly and maybe lose a few hundred bucks in the secondary market. At $9-12.5K, I won't be buying. Just too much risk of losing four-figures upon sale.

JJP announces at $6500 and that will get a lot of attention.

It'd be funny to see the sales drop of batman after its main competitors price plunges to a fair price

You're clueless.

Right?

Would jjp be a hero if he said the price has been adjusted to 7995 or even 8495? Just thinking he could capitalize on all the attention and forum chatter.

Seems to be a pretty low bar for "hero" status.

So you guys REALLY believe JJP would drop the price $1500? And leave the features the same? Plus they always RAISE prices as production starts.

That's admission they were trying to gouge the consumer.

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Not in my world. Prices need to be reasonable... lopping off $500 or $1000 is a joke...and if pinball machines ***truly*** cost so much to make that manufacturers absolutely have to charge $8K, then they need to either (1) completely rethink designs to make them affordable or (2) prepare to see the industry minimized and insanely competitive.

They can push pricing as high as they want. Free market!

Gouging is when you price essential goods high when demand is hightened and necessitated.

These are pinball machines... hardly essential to existence. Fun for us? Yes. But essential, hell no!

That being said, if they think the market will support these prices, I believe they are wrong.

This has zero to do with Joe. Joe is rock solid... the WOZ he sold me is single best game I've ever owned and my favorite game of all time. He's also helped me out with questions and minor issues. Joe is the complete package... great service and honest. If I ever want to buy a game that Joe sells as a distributor, he's the first guy I'd contact without and hesitation.

The only issue for me is the price tag...$9000 seems a bit high but I guess JJP is testing the market and that is within any businesses right to do so. I am sure it cost less than $6300 BOM per machine to manufacture using the average 30% mark-up rate to = a $9000 price tag. I suspect JJP may be going for a keystone rate of 50% mark up and attempting to support or portray a "Mercedes" of pinball manufacture image to justify the price. The market will surely support it to a certain degree but is it necessary for other than reasons of greed vs need? I own a small business and manufacture a product that has 1 dominating competitor with their price of $1000.00 per device. I engineered my device to have more features and better performance and I comfortably priced it at about 58% cheaper than the major producer. This is my 3rd growing year in business and I have more than enough customers who almost always reference the competitors price & performance to mine. Could I charge more??? Of course but I'm going for that price that causes the instant decision to purchase from those familiar with the market. I make excellent profits and consistently have a waiting list.

Every business operates in 1 of 3 modes.

1)You can price high, stock low and shoot for big profits on every sale at the risk of limiting your potential customer base, or another company under pricing you with comparable products. (Limited Buyer)
2)Price medium, stock medium, balanced profits and cash flow. (Average Buyer)
3)Price low, stock high, operate at a high volume output. (All Buyers) This mode can have very high profits if managed correctly. Much better production discounts due to buying supplies in greater quantities. Often dominates markets and can provide an awesome cash flow which can often be more important than profit depending on your business structure!

There is nothing that prevents a large company from offering lower than average prices and still make money other than their capability to produce the product and capitalism! It is up to the business owner to pick his method of operation and up to the market to support it...If it will

Some... may be. But everyone has a line in the sand related to prices (*). And JJP and Stern have crossed it for a number of us.

Got feedback on this game from a few trusted friends. They find that the game shoots well - or great - But they simply cannot swallow the price. They would/could have been buyers otherwise.

(*) mine is currently set by (i) my banker and (ii) The Wife... while I can seduce the later, the former is bit hard to bypass.

What worries me...kinda, is this. With all the threads here regarding the high $9k and $12.5k prices...what if...what if down the road JJP actually raises the prices further! I mean crud, it coukd happen. 3 months from now we may have threads here talking about the $9,700 and $13,200 Dialed In pins! Sounds crazy but it may happen once they finalize tge BOM further or have some parts experience price increases in the distribution channels.

Here is hoping it does not happen and instead the pin price drops a little bit

Joe sounds like a stand up guy, wouldn't hesitate buying from him in the future.

I own a WoZLE and Smaug, been an early depositor on both. Really excited about JJP #3. As others have mentioned, pricing is a strong message that JJP thinks they can move up to a new pricing tier. I can afford it if I'm really excited about a title. "Excited" for me equals great gameplay, deep code, beautiful artwork and appealing theme. Happy to hear the initial feedback is that it has the potential to have the gameplay and future code possibilities to be top notch. But the artwork and theme are not what many would like to see. Yes, we sit and wait in judgement when new pins are unveiled and give our unsolicited opinion, but this is a hobby in which for many of us it's our one large indulgence (it is for me anyway!). So the highs are very high, and the low points bring out some ugly comments.

I'm very interested to see if this new pricing tier sticks, I'm all for supporting JJP - but can't justify joining the party on Dailey In.

Michael

Going by his ad on the website and the "reviews" I will be amazed if there is any move downwards on the price of the LE in the near future. And any artwork changes likely to be just the side cabinet imo.

Ok if there are no borders then all you guys should be buying from Jay Richardson Pinball out of Calgary, Alberta Canada! He's a great guy to talk to. If you want a JJP machine he'll not only ship nation wide but international! Can visit their website to contact him directly. Support your local dealer and ditch this guy posting this ad.

Why does this worry you? Don't buy it.

Both JJP and Stern blew past what most people (operators and collectors) feel is an acceptable price for a pinball machine quite awhile ago. I believe it will start catching up with them now if it hasn't already.

When Jack initially announced WOZ at $6,500 many people were taken aback. Now, the average full featured game is 8K?

When BM66 and DI begin to accumulate dust in their manufacturer's warehouses pricing will change substantially (not a measly $500), but not before.

For the record, I appreciate Jack and JJP. I hope both are very successful.

While i agree with "support your local guy," there are a couple of issues that don't always make that work. Local sales tax can be a killer. In Illinois for example (cook county, Chicago) the sales tax is 10.25%. If you are a Illinois residence and purchase directly from JJP (your local distributor), they (JJP) are required to collect the sales tax. so, if you purchase a new Dialed In at $9,000 that means that there is another $922.50 in sales tax (not to mention shipping). If you purchase from an out of state distributor (KingPin, Pincades, Pinball Company) <-- i mention these because they are in the states surrounding Illinois, then the distributor is not required to collect the sales tax, but you are supposed to declare that yourself on your taxes. I have sold machines to people in other states because they didn't want to have to pay their local sales tax.

Joe is a great guy. If i wasn't a distributor myself, i would purchase from him (and i have purchased MMrs from him for my clients).

I think what you have said should be read by JJP. There are more important things to be concerned about in the world but it would be a shame if the momentum in pinball and particularly JJP is lost because of near crazy levels of optimism from what is a low deposit funding system where the rug can easily be pulled from beneath you.