Absolutely they do. If I were in Joe's shoes as a distributor, I'd make sure Stern knows exactly what my customers are saying. However, the way Stern operates, Joe stands a good chance of being banned from their Facebook page, loses his distributorship and is never welcome at the Stern facility again.

Since Joe is a JJP distributor, that might make Jack a little angry.

I agree that the Hobbit situation is a little different. I still think releasing the "Black Arrow" edition was a dick move, but it's not like consumer's were caught completely off guard like they were with WOZRR.

This time around most are screaming "NO". The only problem is... 75% of those people are gullible every time this happens and jump out of their word and make a purchase. It's almost amusing to watch. I try to stay out of the new game drama. Craziness.

100% agreed. But if someone buys a dialed in LE, they aren't allowed to bitch when a new more limited LE comes out in 18 months.

Jeeze. This is still going on. People get a life. Joe is a really good guy stop $hitting on his ad. If you want a Dial-In great contact him. If not go complain someplace else.

I'm absolutely amazed how many people have opinions and haven't even play this game (or more than likely any of JJP games). JJP are a positive for this hobby. Remake from CGC are not.

Theres an easy way to bring down prices, don't buy the games, everyone complains and states how they are out but Stern has a 15K pin and has to increase the number being built due to demand, why wouldn't JJP raise there price as well, I'm in for an Alien LE and once all is said and done with I'm at 10K, you know what we are all to blame, same with the used market. If JPP has a warehouse of pins that won't sell due to high price what do you think will happen? I remember not long after AV, XMen and Transformers came out that weren't flying off the shelves prices dropped pretty damn quick, I don't blame JJP or Stern or any manufacturer for trying to get top dollar, so who's to blame? Oh Yeah.

If you bothered to read page 1, he asked for comments and feedback.

Wow. That's value. The tide of public opinion on this game is shifting by the hour. For the positive.

IMG_0052 (resized).JPG

Part of this whole thing is the psychological headgames attached with "Limited Editions" & nostalgia. Stern was only making 30 (now 80) of the B66 Super LE & 240 of the LE. Coupled with nostalgia, that gets people to throw money at them. I guarantee you that JJP wants to make more than a few hundred of Dialed In. When you announce 6999 LEs and a theme people think is weird...the people who usually throw money at LEs say "WTF...GTFO".

Amen. New pinball prices are absolutely fucking insane. I mean, who has the expendable cash to pay this much for a piece of commercial entertainment equipment? My take home pay has barely gone up in over five years. But my bills have. What a joke.

Oh, and no matter how well it shoots. No matter how good the rules are. No matter how much fun it is. It's still a stupid looking game with a stupid theme.

Not a knock, but compare that to an IMVE
Playfield.

Just COG not gameplay.

Yeah combine all the tech and mechs in this game and combine that with the gameplay reports and videos so far. I am really impressed with what I see. Need to play it however to be sure.

Played it and really like it. i want a normal lowest priced one (if its made), not an le etc. want to place on location, to earn in the world, share with players on location.

and to those that have not seen in person or played it, its not a "cell phone" game.
its just a feature (which is awesome) and the younger players would really connect as well.
having to charge the phone to start modes, selfie mode taking pix of the player throwing pix all over the display is superb.

hoping they will have a 5k version for those of us who want to buy to put on location. operators know with 5k, 6k, 7k we can buy other games other than pinball and make way more money. we do it to keep pinball alive, have new pins in the wild and we all know we are going to make less than if we bought the newest raw thrills driver or shooter or prize redemption game at the same price or less and put it out there.
hoping JJ will help US out. need make more affordable versions of pins for operators.
and i understand 100% pricing has nothing to do with JOE. I'm ready to buy if the price comes down JJ.

Lmao a 5 k version really? Everyone has went crazy about this games priceing and what they wanna pay. Game has more shit in it and better quality than any other company by a good bit, .u all are dreaming if you think it will go below 7500-8 k for a standard without shaker, headphone jack, powdercoat ,tv swivel and invisaglass . Unfortunately it makes no sense and u want to make as much money as possible off producing as little as possible. That seems to be the new way pinball company's are looking at things.

Excellent point!!!

There's a lot of stuff under the hood for sure. I can't wait to see what $20k will bring us.

I think the negative Nancy's are stern trolls, they love their overpriced stern junk. This game is another winner by JJP and clearly a quality game. I can't wait to play it! I'm a JJP fan yes I admit it but how do other distributors feel about post's like this one? Do other JJP distributors also ship nation wide? I think this ad should be a violation of his distributor agreement but non of my business.

Forgot to mention this one is at least 1k too much price wise, last two games were fair imo
.

Don't think too hard, you might mistake one for the other or end up with a headache trying to figure it out.

I still see a tricky future for this game. The WOZ and Hobbit standards have all the gameplay features of the LE's.

I think JJP will have to consider reducing the price of the LE. Because if it stays at 9k the standard can't be too much less unless it's completely stripped down.

Once people have put down $250 when do they have to pay the balance ? I think I heard Jack say a couple of weeks before you get the game. If so they could end up with a warehouse full if large numbers cancel late on.

Dialed In played great at Expo, and had plenty of surprise and delights for me. The game played exceptional well, and felt as though plenty of testing had been done before the reveal.

Pat, Ted, and the team really pulled-off a winner, and I hope play DI at a location asap.

As for ordering, I will wait and see what future editions of DI are available. I might like one of them more than either of the current two editions (collector or LE), and I want to avoid the hassle of changing out a model. Or, I may just wait for someone who grows tired of the game.

I think this is their history of derivative work:

Hobbit
- Base
- Smaug Gold Edition
- LE (Red dragon)
- Black Arrow SE

Woz
- LE Emerald City
- Standard
- 75th Anniversary Ruby Red
- Australian LE

Their prior models have each had 4 editions each, so hopefully within the next 6 months, they will sort out any more additions for DI.

A simple, 'Thank you!"

Love all you do for Pinball!

Art

Sorry Vid, but I gotta call BS on that......look over the last 3 years how much the MSRP has gone up on new pins from Stern and JJP. Inflation is up MAYBE 3% total over the same time period yet new prices for pins are up about 30-50% (or even more). Have the game they are producing gotten that much more complicated and expensive to make.......no way! They are plain and simple gouging everyone.

People are finally starting to wake up and saying enough of this BS already.

One EDIT: I have nothing against any of the distributors, they are simply selling the product that is produced and I wish them nothing but the best. I was simply replying to the statement by another user.

I think you might have missed Vid's last sentence......"the prices may have gone up simply because the cost of operating and maintaining a boutique pinball company was higher than initially projected."

That has nothing to do with inflation. It simply costs more than they figured it would to make pinball machines.....not surprising actually.

I bought my WOZ from Pinball Star and I live in California. All was smooth as could be.

Look, I've made my thoughts on JJP's business practices very clear. Let's move past that for a second, though. I just want to reiterate that I think Dialed In is a very fun game. I encourage everyone to hold off judgement until they've actually had a chance to play it. There's a lot of really cool stuff going on in the game. The fact of the matter is that Lawlor knows what he is doing when it comes to playfield design. The game shoots great. Yes, the theme is a little bizarre, but it makes a lot more sense when you see how everything is integrated into the ruleset. My only real complaint would be that it seems like a long ball time game. Many people would consider this to be a plus, however.

It's always possible, in between doing things at work lol

Cant wait to play this monster and I am waiting / hoping to see the art work is reworked...I can live with the name. I wanted to be on the pre-order wagon but the combo of price /art/cell phone centered theme just killed it for me. Some games you go with your gut...this one turned my stomach rather than making me me hungry.

If someone has an in with Jack pitch the lease buy back plan to him. I believe the lease / buy back would cushion the huge wallet blow we are experiencing. Its simple customers buy outright and get a stated fixed trade in value which is set at time of purchase. This gives customers an opportunity to keep ones they love and trade in those they dont. At the same time it secures future sales for Jack and referb trade in games at a lower price point years down the road for the community. I can picture it being based on 2 years down to 4 years max.

Customers would feel secure at the first big hit knowing if they love it they keep it and if not trade it down the road.

Thank you for all you do for the community.

Why would you want to get say 2k off the cost of a new game when you could likely sell it yourself for probably at least double that ? Unless you think JJP are going to sell you one now for 9k and allow you 5k off a new one in two years. Not very likely.

Yup. Business gouging 101. There is only two methods to increase bottom line profits/margins...only two. 1) You raise the selling price. 2) You provide less goods/services. For #2 think of the air Hershey bar. Genius! Candy bar full of air ( free air lol) which means less chocolate...which means lower cost and higher profit. Anyway, Stern and JJP have both conducted #1 obviously..raising price. JJP is gouging further by doing #2 also. How? Going from wide body to standard body.

Price raised...less product being given. JJP is squeezing $$$ to no end on this new offering imo. I call it greed. I still wish them well so the hobby stays active with multiple choice pin manufacturers. However, I tend to hope they reconsider the pricing strategy for DI and go after higher volume and lower the price(and margins). Reason mostly is I would prefer wide spread product penetration over scarcity any day if the week. More pins in the field means more exposure. More exposure usually means more chance of longevity and popularity for the hobby

Pigs Get Fat, Hogs Get Slaughtered.

He's just been watching Luke Cage. Trying to be cute...

There is some truth to what he posted. IF JJP priced DI at a cool million bucks per game obviously they would sell MAYBE 1 or 2, and probably not recoup their development costs and lose money.

Obviously the consensus is 9K for Dialed In seems steep within the US, and is ludicrous internationally considering other countries seem to (Gasp!) pay taxes on their purchases and have the exchange rate to deal with. And the 12K super LE or whatever is just off the charts offensive, along with the limiting the LE's to "only 7K units" (especially IF those somehow sold out another special edition would find its way out).

Did they cross a line? We will have to see. To me the game looks interesting enough that I would happily play it (I enjoy all pinball eras, including the future ). But 9K US converted into Canadian dollars, +12% tax is so far from my price point it is not even funny. May as well be 50K for home users at that point. I am more than priced out.

The pricing and the models/numbers is a real mess. That is unless you think we are in TAF or TZ unit production 5 figures. If the price had been 7.5k 2000 LE's and no more special editions guaranteed he would have had a good chance of actual sales not deposits. Also not giving a number for the collector's edition another mistake.

I have been in the pinball hobby for well over 20 years. I have always loved Pat Lawlor's games. I currently own TZ, NGG, and Safe Cracker.
I played Dialed In at the Expo and loved it. It reminds me of the late 90's Bally/Williams pins, with more technology added in, and some real thought went into the game. I love the comic book to present a beginning storyline to the pinball.
I echo what most on this post and others have said. I loved the presentation at Expo of JJP's new pin, but I was quite sticker shocked. I am a buyer at $6,500-$7,000. Otherwise, I am a GB purchaser or will purchase an older title on the used market.
I have heard nothing but nice things about the OP Pinball Star and I wish him good luck with sales of the game.

JJP prices will at some point plateau hoping we have found that here but time will tell. Turn in value at stepped 2 -3-4 years would be bracketed say 1k per year of ownership for home use and more for location pins. So say someone bought dialed in for 9k. They would get 7 k trade in in two years toward a new title HUO condition. Now if the open market will pay more they can sell outright after all they paid in full and its theirs. This would be good for operators and collectors...they could base it on games played also .
To me its a win for owners and for Jack. They would have a steady stream of trade ins and the community has an outet for lower priced referbished factory backed used machines.

Jack ill be a vendor in NC and handle the referb process

I've been in it for over 11, but I'm the same way. Would be super interested in the game, but I'm not spending $9k on a game. The $6k to $7k is my limit, so I guess I'll just be buying used. The issue is that not only that it has to beat Stern in 'fun factor', but that it has to beat all the other games out there which are priced less. It's hard to spend $9500 total when that almost buys LOTR and TSPP.

How about this.

In the Pre Order Model, 99% of us know, not to pre order Houdini.

JJP has proven themselves more than capable to produce this game, and do it insanely well.

We all know, as Jack shares, the more that sell, the lower the cost to make.

As crowd funding sources go, if the goal was say 5000 units at x dollars, or 2000 at y,
and we all want lower prices, wouldnt this be one way to help both JJP and buyers, while the games
get presented at major regional shows?

It would then go to $8995.

There are what, 30,000 pinsiders.....so 10%, 3000 units doesnt seem out of hand, does it?

Jack will only give you 7k for a two year old pinball if a loaf of bread is 1k.

There are 60m. people in Britain. How many Dialed In machines in UK 12 months from now ? I would be confident less than 10.

Two thoughts to your post. 1) Yes, Jack definitely has. I was just talking with some people yesterday about how I'd preorder certain themes from Jack sight unseen. Harry Potter among them. A few of those same people were operators and they all already have Dialed In LEs or CEs ordered haha.

Second, something I've been thinking this entire time is ... I significantly doubt most of these people clamoring about prices would be buying if the machine was 7k. Or 5k. They just want to complain and the price is an easy target because it's a hot-button issue right now.

I'm with you on $7K. A lot of the price complainers wouldn't be buyers at $7K either. But a price of $5K would bring it in line with Stern pros and people buy a lot of them, so I'm not with you there. I myself would order DI if it was $5K NIB.

Well, I guess I can concede there. Because plenty of old HUO machines are above $5K even haha.

Complete and utter nonsense.