When unlicensed themes were popular, games were much much cheaper. Maybe the time for unlicensed themes has just passed ?

I mean, TBL and MMr were announced roughly the same time. I couldn't justify buying a MMr, but did TBL@8500. I am a 1 pin of that cost household.. so I'm done with NIB unless I sell / trade TBL .. which I don't see happening.. certainly Dialed In isn't got to be the trade bait that prys it out of my hands.

I look forward to playing it on location.. if it ends up on location.

They were cheaper and they didn't have to sell more than half the games to home owners. I think it's pretty clear that for an unlicensed theme to sell in the thousands it must be massively popular. Because it's not a movie or a band yet it's 8k+. But looking on the bright side maybe this game can break out of the pinball buying world as we know it. I think it has to do so to be a success.

Just wondering who else at Expo might be able to confirm this happened, or if the statement is just an exaggeration.

Sadly, this is a pretty accurate account of how things went down.

^ I've heard the opposite. So it looks like we need a time machine to go back to EXPO in person. I heard people in the audience were looking at each other excitedly and climbing over chairs to get to the game.

Added over 7 years ago: How does this deserve -5? Simply saying that I talked to people who enjoyed it? Christ you guys just WANT to be negative.

I watched the live stream. That didn't happen.

You mean all 12 pixels of it? I watched it too, you couldn't see anything worth commenting on.

This is the Mandela Effect, where people seem to remember something collectively that never actually happened.

Some people remember Uncle Pennybags having a monocle, when actually he didn't.

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I can confirm he doesn't.

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Not an exaggeration. I was standing back by the doors since we got in late, there was a steady stream of people leaving while Pat was still talking about the game. The oxygen just got sucked out of the room when it was revealed. I felt bad for Pat.

The room was packed though, standing room only, half of the people there could have left and it would have still been well attended. So it's not like the room emptied or anything. But no other talk that I saw had that kind of reaction with people leaving.

There is no Mandela Effect, this just happened a couple weeks ago and people witnessed it in person. If you weren't there then stop trying to tell the people who were there what "really happened", it's ridiculous.

Edit: not worth it. Believe what you want. I've heard both that people liked it and people disliked it. Pick your favorite.

I wasn't there but is it possible people were hungry and heard pizza was already being served elsewhere?

The presentation was just awful. I love JJP, I love Pat Lawlor, and I'm excited to play DI but it couldn't have been more on the wrong foot. Jack babbling about new cabinets, Lawlor's odd, rambling autobiography, that crummy Powerpoint slideshow, then the misplaced focus on the tech features rather than a concise overview of the game itself. I understand wanting to hold off on revealing the game but oy, that lead-up. It felt totally unrehearsed and I felt really bad for them.

its crap, some left to go to the alien reveal across the parking lot though but that was an issue of 2 of the biggest things happening at once.

agreed it was really done poorly, it wasn't even powerpoint it a was a scrolling document on the screen, really awkward. They forgot to bring the flier to the reveal and had to run to get them afterward. There was a ton of people at the end crowding the machines though. Ther actually was cheering during parts of the reveal, but to be honest it was a business reveal, not something that would be cheered normally anyway.

Pizza was available in the hallway outside the Seminar Room before the reveal, and there was a big crowd gathered outside the room as the reveal was being prepared behind closed doors. When the doors opened, and the crowd started to fill the room, several people brought pizza slices in. Right after the comic was distributed and the name revealed, some people left right away, in the middle of the presentation.

After the presentation was over, many people left without playing the game. Some simply had no interest, some were hungry or wanted to hit the Vendor Hall or the Free Play Room before the rest of the crowd, and some headed straight over to the Alien party across the parking lot at the Twin Peaks restaurant. Many attendees stayed and moved to the front of the room to look at the games, play them, or talk to Pat, Jack, and the rest of the JJP employees present. I would estimate that somewhere around 25%-30% of the attendees hung around and moved to the front, and the rest left for various reasons.

I was not there, but did watch the live stream, and also had friends there who were texting me live during the reveal, and the above is 100% consistent with what I was told and what I saw and heard during the live stream.

I was there, I'm pretty comfortable believing what happened.

FFS, people are so damn revisionist in defense of things now. The reveal sucked. Oh well.

Guess what? The tone started shifting (to more positive) at Expo the next day after people actually played it. It doesn't have to be one constant narrative.

What are you talking about?

Dialed In is awesome.
Everything is cool when your part of a JJP team.
Dialed In is awesome as you know you'll be living the complete code dream.

I watched the live stream at home with a friend and I didn't think it was that bad.

I can imagine it might have been a little different in a packed room full of expo goers, many that may not have bathed that day, and some of the goodies and beer was starting to go thru them. I might have been one of the first to hit the exits if that was the case.

Yeah it wasn't that bad. A little long winded to be sure and indeed people seemed a little shocked at least at the name initially.

But if you kept watching the stream you saw crowds of people playing the five machines and looking pretty damn happy about it. Lotta smiles and laughs and that was the important thing. That's THE important thing... who's gonna remember/care about some speechifying and a "presentation" in the future anyways.

A lot of people said they didn't love the name or the sounds, etc... but NOBODY said the gameplay was weak. Even at the supposed early code release. Will this be enough to sell it? Who knows?

Personally I can't believe *anybody* would buy a machine at 8k and up. They are simply not worth it comparing cost/fun factor IMO.

Watching the live stream presentation was entertaining, informative, and best of all it was free.

The live comments posted to the feed were crazy entertaining.
But one should note there were lots of people post-whoring.

The "reveal" was a pathetic joke. My wife said, wtf was that, why did you hang on and watch that garbage.

The whole thing was "free pizza" and horrendous.

Spin it however you want but it was NOT a good thing.

Almost every EXPO reveal is cringeworthy. Nobody in this industry knows how to get a room pumped or work the crowd. Nobody. You need to practice these things. Men with ego's usually think they'll just nail it live and that never happens.

It was total unedited fun. Well worth the wait.

The op definitely has a point. Cell phones, drones.....ugh. no thanks.

I'm reading this thread over and it's hilarious. The op gets moderated/edited, guys are getting ejected, and anyone saying anything critical about it gets their post removed. Is Stern moderating?

I don't know about you guys but I feel like I've gotten more enjoyment reading these threads on Dialed In! than I would by purchasing and playing the actual machine.

Your username seems to be an anagram of the letters K e n d a a only with different letters

This was pretty much it. A lot of us didn't want to wait in a long line to play Dialed In knowing that it would be playable the next couple days. Just outside the doors people were eating the Stern/Kapow pizza. Many of us went to get a slice or two before they left or ran out. And all the people going to the Alien Party left to go to that.
Yeah, there was a stir when the name was revealed to be what we all heard it was more than a year ago in that pinside post, but that dissipated after we saw the game in action and heard more about its features.

Best toy ever in the game

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If this guy wasn't Kaneda, he must have been his long lost twin.

Just catching up, but I don't believe this. I don't want Munsters, Jaws, or any of the themes being tossed around lately. I've even seen "A Christmas Story" tossed around. I love that movie and I think it would be a terrible pin.

Please don't take offense at this, but the quality of original themes plays a part for me. The quality of the story and humor on original games just isn't anywhere near most licensed properties, and for completely understandable reasons. With a license you are getting access to a property that had teams of writers, artists and other people behind it. If it was/is a popular license, you've already got a leg up. Just think of how many times we've been exposed to Ghostbusters over the past 30 years. It's almost impossible *NOT* to have a connection to it.

A company making an original theme not only has to design a great playfield design, but they have to be able to create a compelling package as a whole. Art, back story, sounds, graphics. They all have to be top notch.

That's not to say licensed themes can't suck..... DC has as much material to draw from as Marvel does, and look at the quality difference between their movies.

I was there...what has been stated was true....I left early as I wanted to make the Alien Reveal....once the title was revealed, a very deflated " hush" came over the large crowd. I am NOT anti JJP ( love my WOZ) ...but couldn't get out fast enough after finding out the machine actually had a phone and took selfies ( shit!!!)....

Didn't care about pizza...Alien had wings and beer for days, and the machines, though a bit raw, were deadly...late to post, as my workload has not lightened. Nice to see people playing it on the floor ( I had several goes), but off my radar...all the best to those who like the machine....

It is tough to sell games without a licensed theme. It can be done I suppose, but this theme is a complete turn off from the second I heard the phone ringing. It might or might not be a great flipping game, but the theme spoils it for me and obviously I am not alone.

My guess for total sales is 550. If it was a decent licensed theme with PL design, I would guess four times that.

Nyep. Its just a waste of money for 9k. A royal waste at that. I don't care what anyone says, this is awful. For 9k, buy two sweet older pins because this ones just annoying.

And I'm not so sure if it was a great themed pin I would be interested. 9k is significant. They should know this I feel but they still charge it. Terrible.

I just don't get this crap

They had sold over 1,000 games a week ago, we have sold more than a container ourselves.

People are speaking with their wallet and buying this game.

I understand some people don't like it and that's fine, but many do

A guess for total sales at 550 is not realistic at this point. The criticism of Hobbit has been heavy from the start and in some cases justified, but at this point the only thing that will probably be true in the end when it comes to Hobbit is that it will not surpass WOZ in terms of overall sales. Of course it could do so, but tracking the numbers and keeping in mind that WOZ has an additional small run in progress at the moment, it seems most unlikely. That said, Dialed In, which as you are aware is being sold using a different price model and thus leaves itself open to the haters chanting "it's only a small refundable deposit", has generated so many orders despite appearing at one show and on one Buffalo Pinball program that for it to fail to sell even 1000 units at this point (barring catastrophe) is whatever the opposite of wishful thinking is known as here in the land ripe with negativity.

550 total sales would be a disaster. But you can't rule it out. I think the response at Expo and on pinside strongly indicates that JJP has problems at 8/9k with a very large amount of established pinball fans. Will it sell in good numbers to people that currently don't own a pinball machine? That has got to be very doubtful. With WOZ and Hobbit they were getting a famous brand. Selfies on the screen and controlling the flippers on your phone are innovations but are they worth 8k+ ?

Any designer can produce a lackluster game, DI looks fun and I believe will do well but its tough to not feel frustrated when you have an OG theme with a great designer and JJP quality then you get Cell Phones and selfies, drones, little kid style music and treehouse style animations, alot of you guys dig that and thats cool but no matter how much code this game ends up with the theme has turned off a large majority of collectors. "Ever make a mediocre game"

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Catching up and seeing accounts frozen or invalid : interesting but not surprised. I got the best impression on the game play - thanks buffalopinball ! The 3 hour streaming and Steve Bowden commentary was well done. It will be good player with 75% more code on the way. Can't wait to play it.

I'm sure it will be.... and I still wouldn't buy one.

Check out Pinball Magazines great interview, it explains a lot about the decisions made when designing this game:

http://www.pinball-magazine.com/?p=3133

Yep, still not convincing me on this thing. Cell phones, drones, 9k, no.

I think

I think a lot of things about the game could have been much better, and hopefully some of the feedback will be taken ... particularly about some of the disjointed art and the bizarre resurrection of Red & Ted / Bob The Builder clones. Name I really don't care about. Also feel that $8k / $9k for a game which will have a far lower bill of materials than WOZ, and likely Hobbit too, and far lower man hours put into assembly, is a joke .... as is the aping of Stern's SLE with the Collector's Edition (it was obviously scrambled together at the last second, hence no details). Presentation was terrible, and what I felt was Jack meme-ing (maybe he was serious) about the 6999 edition LE went down like a lead balloon.

BUT:

Anyone who thinks they'll only sell 1000 (much less 550) units is living in cloud cuckoo land. If they can build enough by then, they could ship that many to buyers on day 1, I suspect.

BUT 2:

Had the theme been a little more polished, the launch better orchestrated, and the price designed to really hit Stern where it hurts, this could have easily been a 5000-6000 units before the end of 2017 machine. There's no way it does anything close to that now, unless they seriously reduce price. Given their new system, and much less wiring and assembly steps, their theoretical max production capacity must have taken a big jump. I suspect they're currently running at a cadence of about 3500 per annum of the much more complex, bigger widebodies, and Jack had previously said they could do ~5000 of those a year. What ever they do, they'll continue to take market share in nominal and % terms, but it feels like they missed the wide open goal that Stern have left with all their recent (and pretty appalling) actions.

Assuming they produce it for 3-4 years, I think 5000-8000 units is an achievable number (higher end depends on price being lowered at some point), perhaps more. If they'd gone after $6995 / $7800 / $8500 I'm sure it would have been the first 10,000 seller since the 90s, and got there pretty damn quickly.

But there's a significant risk of the price bubble bursting and the market collapsing, particularly with economic storm clouds gathering, and numbers being way lower. I think chasing sky high (though not Stern high) margins was a far riskier move than trying to hit production capacity and maximise revenue.

I was just curious as to how many games are bought by pinsiders and how many are out there, taking LOTR's for example it shows 5100 produced and pinsiders own roughly 1000 with another 800 on location so 3300 pins are floating around out there, where the hell are they?

There are at least 3 LOTRs in my neighborhood and not one of the owners visits Pinside.

I believe all of them were purchased NIB from Jack.

...

They easily could have been. When LOTR came out, Jack ( Pinball Sales ) was a big Stern distributor.

LTG : )