Quoted from blownfuse:Did you fix that A12J4/P4 connector yet Dennis?
System 80, not just a job, it's an adventure
How doo i fix this cabel? should i somehow reduse its workload?
I measured the cabel, it puts our around 1.8V.
(Topic ID: 19974)
Linked Games
Devil's Dare
Gottlieb, 1982
Topic Gallery
Climate Controlled Sfba, CA
No need to reduce the load. With the power off, you should inspect the connector pins inside A12J4/P4. If any of them look burned or loose, they should be replaced. They get a little loose as they get used in time, being loose = resistance. Resistance = heat. You had a spark inside, I think it's worth looking at those pins to see if something got damaged, something had to cause the spark that started this whole mess for you.
System 80, not just a job, it's an adventure
Quoted from DEN:How doo i fix this cabel? should i somehow reduse its workload?
I measured the cabel, it puts our around 1.8V.
Well, if it were me, I wouldn't play it until the 7404 has been replaced for fear of the 7448's taking a hit. Those are getting harder to find. Get the 7404 installed when you can and let Chris and/or I know how things are looking for you. Hopefully, replacing the 7404 is all you need to do.
System 80, not just a job, it's an adventure
Quoted from DEN:No, the white, with black stripes cabel still gets alllitle more hot then other cabels, but with the U5 IC on, and no soundboard on, i have played the game today, works great
Also uoloading one more pic, upper displayes shows 1 and 3 combined, and the lower ones only show 3. Doo i now have to bee worried about damadged displayes? or doo they work fine, just waiting for the right 74XX to bee put in?
I tryed replacing 74xx this morning, just to check, took one out and put it on Z16 (a working 74ls04n) and bam the displayes changed.
Score only registers on player 2 and 4.
Yess it looks like, when i get the new ICs, and put em in, it probepley bee fine.
And YES system80A is defenentley an adventure!
Also more bad news, my Q53 on the driverboard blew again. While i was playing (cant stop playing this one, sorry) smoke came out, i turned all of, and saw again Q53 were melted, smelled bad, really bad.
I installed a TIP120, isent this the correct one?
I have cut it of now, measured on the driverboard, left and right led shows 0.02 and 0.04V and the middle shows 24.8V is this the way it should be???
My powerboard still putts out correct voltages 
Geez! You're killin' me Dennis, stop playing that game and get to work on it. 
I've never used a TIP120 on a driver board so I can offer no opinion. However, if it is NPN, it should have worked. You need to check the knocker coil before trying another drive transistor, it sounds like it's dead and taking out transistors.
System 80, not just a job, it's an adventure
Quoted from DEN:Also more bad news, my Q53 on the driverboard blew again. While i was playing (cant stop playing this one, sorry) smoke came out, i turned all of, and saw again Q53 were melted, smelled bad, really bad.
I installed a TIP120, isent this the correct one?I have cut it of now, measured on the driverboard, left and right led shows 0.02 and 0.04V and the middle shows 24.8V is this the way it should be???
My powerboard still putts out correct voltages
Quoted from blownfuse:Geez! You're killin' me Dennis, stop playing that game and get to work on it. I've never used a TIP120 on a driver board so I can offer no opinion. However, if it is NPN, it should have worked. You need to check the knocker coil before trying another drive transistor, it sounds like it's dead and taking out transistors.
System 80, not just a job, it's an adventure
You are AWSOME!!! How in the H**l did you know it was the knocker coil???
I cant se anywhere in the manual that transistor q53 is for the knocker coil, on later williams pins in the backbox, there is a list of all transisters that are used to different coils, that list i really miss in this game.
Well i finally found the knocker, it was no where in the backbox, but well hidden under metalplade under the cabinet, at the volume control, the coil was melted, the plunger was stuck!!!
Its cut OF now!
Okey, finally monday, and i have been in contakt with different supplyers in Denmark.
Well R6532-xx is allmost impossible to find.
Please look at this link, it says M6532, but the seller tells me i proberbley can still use it, well CAN I? Link:
http://elektronik-lavpris.dk/product_info.php?products_id=109881
Also i need 5* 74LS04N
The seller again tells me i proberbley can use these instead, well CAN I?
Link:
http://elektronik-lavpris.dk/product_info.php?products_id=80294
Please help, i am really ancties to make this order, but are only holding back for an answer from here
Thank you guys!
I'm no complete expert, but I don't think the 74AC04 is compatible. The 74LS04N is a shlotky based TTL level chip. The AC is a high speed CMOS and is not TTL compatible. You would need to go to an 74ACT04 which is TTL compatible. Or a 74HCT04 if your supplier has those. It appears from that site however, that the ACT/HCT are only available in surface mount platforms.
You can also use a 5404 instead of the 7404 if you can find one.
You should read this thread: Some good info on chip differences for Gottlieb 80's.
http://rgparchive-removed.com/rgpforum/showthread.php?t=305702
The link needs a log in and I didn't try to translate. IIRC, just about any 6532 will work. There is only one IC (Z3) on the CPU board where a 7404 can't be substituted with a LS series because of timing. So yes, it will work in the display section, I use them there and in the switch matrix area when needed (never tried the AC series). Stock up on them if you plan to keep the game, they act like little mini fuses on the board and tend to be the part most replaced.
System 80, not just a job, it's an adventure
Quoted from DEN:Okey, finally monday, and i have been in contakt with different supplyers in Denmark.Well R6532-xx is allmost impossible to find.
Please look at this link, it says M6532, but the seller tells me i proberbley can still use it, well CAN I? Link:http://elektronik-lavpris.dk/product_info.php?products_id=109881
Also i need 5* 74LS04NThe seller again tells me i proberbley can use these instead, well CAN I?Link:http://elektronik-lavpris.dk/product_info.php?products_id=80294
Please help, i am really ancties to make this order, but are only holding back for an answer from here Thank you guys!
Thanks, I see this all the time. 
In the manual, page 13 bottom right (coil list) and page 46 near the middle (cabinet schematic). There's something worth remembering that I saw on the coil list. Solenoid 7 isn't used in DD. This means that you have a spare MPS-U45 (Q56) if you need it in an emergency to keep your game running.
System 80, not just a job, it's an adventure
Quoted from DEN:You are AWSOME!!! How in the H**l did you know it was the knocker coil???I cant se anywhere in the manual that transistor q53 is for the knocker coil, on later williams pins in the backbox, there is a list of all transisters that are used to different coils, that list i really miss in this game.
Well i finally found the knocker, it was no where in the backbox, but well hidden under metalplade under the cabinet, at the volume control, the coil was melted, the plunger was stuck!!!
Its cut OF now!
Quoted from blownfuse:The link needs a log in and I didn't try to translate. IIRC, just about any 6532 will work. There is only one IC (Z3) on the CPU board where a 7404 can't be substituted with a LS series because of timing. So yes, it will work in the display section, I use them there and in the switch matrix area when needed (never tried the AC series). Stock up on them if you plan to keep the game, they act like little mini fuses on the board and tend to be the part most replaced.
System 80, not just a job, it's an adventure
Just so we're clear to the OP, he wasn't asking if he could use an LS series, but an AC series, which from my understanding he cannot. An LS or HCT or ACT, yes, but not an AC.
Quoted from robertmee:I'm no complete expert, but I don't think the 74AC04 is compatible. The 74LS04N is a shlotky based TTL level chip. The AC is a High Speed CMOS and is not TTL compatible. You would need to go to an 74ACT04 which is TTL compatible. Or a 74HCT04 if your supplier has those. It appears from that site however, that the ACT/HCT are only available in surface mount platforms.
You can also use a 5404 instead of the 7404 if you can find one.
You should read this thread: Some good info on chip differences for Gottlieb 80's.
http://rgparchive-removed.com/rgpforum/showthread.php?t=305702
THANK YOU!!!
I cant find any 5404 IC at this supplyers webshop, but please check out this one:
http://elektronik-lavpris.dk/product_info.php?products_id=79881
Hex Inverter DIP14
Varenummer: LS04N
(Y1353)
LS TTLs
Series: 74LS_
Case: DIP/DIL
Maby this means 74LS04N.
There are pictures at the link, but its written SN74SL245N.
Doo you think i can use this one? When i talk with the sellers, they doesent sound sure of what they are selling, its frustrating!
Quoted from blownfuse:The link needs a log in and I didn't try to translate. IIRC, just about any 6532 will work. There is only one IC (Z3) on the CPU board where a 7404 can't be substituted with a LS series because of timing. So yes, it will work in the display section, I use them there and in the switch matrix area when needed (never tried the AC series). Stock up on them if you plan to keep the game, they act like little mini fuses on the board and tend to be the part most replaced.
System 80, not just a job, it's an adventure
A log in? no please try again, maby this link:
http://elektronik-lavpris.dk/product_info.php?products_id=79881
Ahhh what to order??? Okey The M6532 is usable as R6532-18 as i need, check.
Which one doo i order for 74LS04N???
Quoted from blownfuse:Thanks, I see this all the time. In the manual, page 13 bottom right (coil list) and page 46 near the middle (cabinet schematic). There's something worth remembering that I saw on the coil list. Solenoid 7 isn't used in DD. This means that you have a spare MPS-U45 (Q56) if you need it in an emergency to keep your game running.
System 80, not just a job, it's an adventure
Haiii thanx, yes i see it now, whow, that helped alot
Thank youuu
Quoted from DEN:THANK YOU!!!
I cant find any 5404 IC at this supplyers webshop, but please check out this one:
http://elektronik-lavpris.dk/product_info.php?products_id=79881
Hex Inverter DIP14
Varenummer: LS04N
(Y1353)
LS TTLs
Series: 74LS_
Case: DIP/DIL
Maby this means 74LS04N.
There are pictures at the link, but its written SN74SL245N.
Doo you think i can use this one? When i talk with the sellers, they doesent sound sure of what they are selling, its frustrating!
I actually saw that link while looking at their website earlier....That page seems to be a catch all for all 74LSxx IC's, so if one of them is indeed a 74LS04N, you could order it. But I agree, that website is confusing at best.
WHO´S LAUGHING NOW B**TH!!!
Got new parts, quickley installed R6532 on MPU, also soldert new sockets, and replaced 7404.
Started 4player game.
Sound, backgroundmusik, score count, all works well BUT as you can se on pic, player 3 and 4 has some stripes on them.
I still have 2 IC´s on the MPU thats reads bad, and must bee replaced:
One of them is Z1 ---IC CMOS-DUAL 1 SHOT.
The other one is Z36 --- IC-CMOS MM74C04. A 74LS04 wont work here right???
And i also noticed, on display 3&4 with the stripes, the middle Z1 IC gets really hot, measured them, they are bad, SN7432N.
Now offcourse i have taken display board 1 and put it on nr 3, and it got the stripes, also i took the display from 3, and put on player one, and it again had the stripes. Hmmm display 1 back on player one, and it worked.
Now please confirm, that Z1 and Z36 on the MPU board has something to doo with display nr 3&4.
You're just about to get home with this one.
Hm, the "1's" segment is controlled by Z16 on the CPU board. I thought you replaced it, maybe it has a bad gate at pins 10 & 11? Or possibly you didn't get good solder flow from both sides of the board at that socket? Before doing the work again (because it could be a corrupt display), try swapping the bad looking displays with the good working one's and see if the problem follows. If it does, swap one of them back, if the problem follows (or doesn't) you'll know which display may be the cause. If the problem never moves, you have to look at that Z16 IC again.
Z1 is part of memory protect, doesn't it keep memory?
Z36 is a 4069 and part of the read/write the parts list in the manual is incorrect (just looked). A 74LS04 won't work there.
System 80, not just a job, it's an adventure
Quoted from DEN:WHO´S LAUGHING NOW B**TH!!!
Got new parts, quickley installed R6532 on MPU, also soldert new sockets, and replaced 7404.Started 4player game.Sound, backgroundmusik, score count, all works well BUT as you can se on pic, player 3 and 4 has some stripes on them.
I still have 2 IC´s on the MPU thats reads bad, and must bee replaced:One of them is Z1 ---IC CMOS-DUAL 1 SHOT.The other one is Z36 --- IC-CMOS MM74C04. A 74LS04 wont work here right???
And i also noticed, on display 3&4 with the stripes, the middle Z1 IC gets really hot, measured them, they are bad, SN7432N.
Now offcourse i have taken display board 1 and put it on nr 3, and it got the stripes, also i took the display from 3, and put on player one, and it again had the stripes. Hmmm display 1 back on player one, and it worked.
Now please confirm, that Z1 and Z36 on the MPU board has something to doo with display nr 3&4.
I don't think so, a 74LS32, sure.
Quoted from DEN:Is it possible to replace SN7432N with DM74LS374N???
They don't go to DD, that's for sure. They look like displays of some kind.
Quoted from DEN:Whats this? it was included when i got my DD
Quoted from blownfuse:You're just about to get home with this one.
Hm, the "1's" segment is controlled by Z16 on the CPU board. I thought you replaced it, maybe it has a bad gate at pins 10 & 11? Or possibly you didn't get good solder flow from both sides of the board at that socket? Before doing the work again (because it could be a corrupt display), try swapping the bad looking displays with the good working one's and see if the problem follows. If it does, swap one of them back, if the problem follows (or doesn't) you'll know which display may be the cause. If the problem never moves, you have to look at that Z16 IC again.
Z1 is part of memory protect, doesn't it keep memory?
Z36 is a 4069 and part of the read/write the parts list in the manual is incorrect (just looked). A 74LS04 won't work there.
System 80, not just a job, it's an adventure
I hope so soon
Yes i replaced Z16, its new, it was allready socketed, so it was an easy replace.
How doo imeasure about bad gate from pin 10&11?
Yes i just put display 4 in 1s connector, and it still looked bad, then i put the good working display og player 4´s cabel, and it looked bad! both the 3&4 player display has problems, and there connectors too.
I was hoping replacing Z1 on the display boards, and maby Z1 and Z36 on the MPU board, would deal with the connector problem. Its not that simple then?
Z1 on the MPU is CP8152 and Z36 is MM74C04N
Z1 on the MPU, does that keep score? i only know, it remembers the coins, nothing happends on the score points, they all stay on 0000000.
Always work on the displays with the power off (I always have to say this). 
If the problem with the displays stays in players 3 & 4 when you swap both the problem displays to different locations (players 1 & 2), the problem is most likely the Z16 socket or IC, not on the displays. I'm not sure if a dirty or bad connection at A1J2-16 will cause the "h" segment to stay on but it's also worth looking at.
I have no clue what a CP8152 is in Z1 on te CPU board, it may be equivalent to a SCL4528, I'd have to look it up. Z1 (CMOS one shot) has to do with memory protect, I don't think it's for scoring since it's working with the 5101 RAM.
Never used a MM74C04 in Z36, the manual says it'll work (learned something new there) in place of a 4069
System 80, not just a job, it's an adventure
Quoted from DEN:I was hoping replacing Z1 on the display boards, and maby Z1 and Z36 on the MPU board, would deal with the connector problem. Its not that simple then?
Z1 on the MPU is CP8152 and Z36 is MM74C04N
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