(Topic ID: 166584)

DESW Laser Kick Stuck On Upon Power Up

By Mtpacifico

7 years ago


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  • 16 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by spikedbat
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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DESW_PPBSchematic_(resized).PNG
DESW_LaserKickSchematic_(resized).PNG
#1 7 years ago

I was so close to being done with my DESW but now I have run into an issue. After being disassembled for quite some time I finally put everything back together and had the game running. I ran a few test games to ensure everything was working. I did notice that when a ball went down the left lane, the laser kick would kind of stutter and not shoot the ball back into play. After a couple of tries, the coil began to function properly and shoot balls back out into the playing area.

Not sure if there is any relation to the following but for completeness sake, after the above tests I did the following:

- powered off the game and re-ran the wiring from inside the cabinet up to the backbox (I originally ran the wire bundle up the middle of the three holes between the backbox and cabinet. This was causing issues putting the playfield down in play position due to the bundle interfering with the light sockets on the back of the playfield and back playfield wall).
- I installed LEDs under the playfield while the game was in lamp test mode

After the above, I powered down the game and placed the playfield down. Upon power up I hear and see the laser kick coil energize and stay energized and then I smell that smell. I immediately power off and grab the manual. Q1 on the PPB drives the laser kick coil. I check the backbox and sure enough, it's toast. I pull the board and replace the TIP36c and diode for Q1. I think I may have had to replace the transistor at Q1 before (I have had the pin for two years and it has been disassembled for just about that long so forgot but I'm fairly certain) so just for safe measures I also replace the laser kick coil with a brand new one.

I checked all connections in the backbox and underneath the playfield and they look good. I power the game on again and same result; laser kick coil stuck on and smoke from the TIP36c at Q1.

What am I missing? What should I be looking at as the culprit?

- Mike

#2 7 years ago

So looking at the schematics (see attached), should I check Q23 on the CPU? Would that cause Q1 to immediately fry on the PPB or am I looking at a short to ground on the laser kick coil?

DESW_LaserKickSchematic_(resized).PNGDESW_LaserKickSchematic_(resized).PNG

#3 7 years ago

I'm no expert on this subject but go ahead and replace everything that's fried. Then next time before power up remove connector J1 from the PPB. This connector goes to the CPU connector 11 coil drive. That will isolate the CPU from everything else. Check the backbox wiring diagram in the manual to confirm this connection. Or you could leave one of the wires to the laser kick coil unattached temporarily and then make brief contact with the coil lug and see what happens. Try to figure out if the problem originates from the CPU to the PPB or from the PPB to the coil. There is a resister( 220 ohms) in circuit with the TIP 36 and the 1N4004 diode that may be causing problems. Like I said I'm no expert just trying to help you out. Good luck.

#4 7 years ago
Quoted from Mtpacifico:

So looking at the schematics (see attached), should I check Q23 on the CPU? Would that cause Q1 to immediately fry on the PPB or am I looking at a short to ground on the laser kick coil?

Thats the predriver for Q1.I believe if it is constantly turned on the circuit is live and won't shut off. I don't know what controls Q23 upstream but that may be where the problem is. The locked on coil is causing Q1 to fry.

#6 7 years ago

Thanks for the reply mikat. I checked Q23 and the 2N4401 on the CPU and they are good (same measurements on those as other circuits on CPU). I am swapping the TIP36 on the PPB.

I'll verify J1 and try that next but I have a feeling I'm going to be pulling that PPB and replacing the TIP36 again before the night is over.

#7 7 years ago

Ok, I replaced Q1 and checked its associated diode and 220 ohm resistor. I connected the CPU and PPB back up leaving J1 (solenoids to CPU), J7 (laser kick coil), and J8 (50V for laser coil) unconnected.

I think I can connect J1 and power the game on without issue but I'm hesitant to connect either J7 or J8 as I haven't changed anything aside from the TIP36 and haven't found the root cause.

Thoughts?

- Mike

DESW_PPBSchematic_(resized).PNGDESW_PPBSchematic_(resized).PNG

#8 7 years ago

Don't connect to that burnt coil. That would be bad. Like I said replace the coil and leave the wires disconnected then briefly touch the wires to the lugs after power up and see if the coil locks on. Remember there is power to the coil constantly 50 v and is brought to ground by TIP 36,its predriver and whatever turns the predriver on to complete the circuit and fire the coil.

#9 7 years ago

The coil is brand new and has less than 2 seconds of power to it; I replaced the original coil with this one after Q1 fired the first time. Even after the installing a new coil and new TIP36, the coil locked on and Q1 fried again.

So my plan is to disconnect both wires on the laser kick coil, connect J7 and J8 and disconnect J1 on the PPB. Then power on the game, correct? What will this prove/disprove? If the coil does not lock then the problem is on the PCB, if it does then it is the PPB or under playfield?

#10 7 years ago

Correct.

#11 7 years ago

Ok, so I removed both wires to the laser kick coil and disconnected J1 on the PPB. I powered the game on and touched the wires to the laser kick coil... No lock and Q1 is not fried.

Should I connect J1 and try again?

- Mike

#12 7 years ago

Yea try that.

#13 7 years ago

I reconnected J1 and touched the wires to the laser kick coil and no locked on coil and Q1 is fine. Weird!

I'm going to re-solder the wires to the coil and keep my fingers crossed.

#14 7 years ago

I resoldered the laser kick coil and simulated a game (I still have to put rubbers on the flippers, fasten the wireframe trails, and wax) but so far so good. I'll keep my fingers crossed and knock on wood that nothing else happens, my son is itching to play. It will be a nice surprise for him when I get home from work tomorrow and sit him in front of it.

Thanks mikat for your assistance and taking the time to reply and help me out. It is very much appreciated!

- Mike

#15 7 years ago

Ok that's cool. Much better than removing bad chips from the CPU or other nightmarish things.

2 weeks later
#16 7 years ago

Just to summarize, did you end up replacing both Q1 and Q23 or was it just the Q1 that was bad?

Basically what exactly was the problem?
Have a similar issue with my MSF and looking at just replacing the three transistors all together at once.

Thx

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