(Topic ID: 311979)

Deposit profiteering - we can fix this

By swampfire

2 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 200 posts
  • 73 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Aurich
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    Topic poll

    “Should people be able to profit from a “spot”?”

    • Yes - it’s capitalism, get over it 73 votes
      54%
    • No - it’s helping to ruin the hobby 61 votes
      46%

    (134 votes)

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    There are 200 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 4.
    13
    #1 2 years ago

    I saw a Pinside ad recently that made me feel kind of sick. Someone had put down a $1000 deposit for a Godzilla Premium, and they were trying to flip it for $3k. I think the ad is gone now, but I don’t think this is an isolated example.

    This is something that distributors should have full control over. If someone calls and says “I sold my spot”, tell them: “That’s fine, have the new buyer contact us, and once they’ve paid a deposit we’ll refund your $1000” (or whatever the deposit is). Let’s support distributors who publish and enforce this common-sense policy. Or better yet, support distributors like Flip n Out who don’t require a deposit at all. Then if you change your mind, your spot can go to someone who’s on a waiting list.

    We can’t do much about flippers who resell their new or NIB game, especially if they do it off Pinside. But for crying out loud, someone should at least have to OWN the game (paid in full and delivered) before they can sell it.

    15
    #2 2 years ago

    When I buy something I buy something...be it a pinball machine, a toaster....ok ok ok a CAR are you all happy?!!!...or even a "spot in line for a pinball machine."

    Once you start trying to police this shit or telling me what I can or cannot do with shit I've paid for and own, let's just say it gets a little bit messy.

    How about this? If you want a fucking pinball machine...or even a SPOT for a pinball machine...or a concert ticket, or a car, or a toaster...wake up early like everybody else and fucking make sure you buy one.

    There isn't some magic to it. Some people snooze, some people lose, tough fucking titty. I don't see why it should be anybody's problem but the guy who can't figure out how to buy a pinball machine spot or anything else like everybody else can.

    The "flippers" aren't rocket scientists. They aren't smarter than anybody else, or know any tricks that you don't know, or "insiders" with some leg up on you. THey are just guys who make a phone call or add something to their cart. And if those meager skills can bring them profits because somebody else is too lazy to do the same thing, well good for fucking them.

    Can we put this nonsense to rest already? It's getting old. There is no "solution" to this problem because there is no actual problem. There's nothing to "fix."

    In other words, as you eloquently say..."Get over it."

    #3 2 years ago

    By the way, I have no problem with people selling their deposit at a loss. I did this with ACNC - I put down $1000 and sold my spot for $700. Life happens, or we get more time on a game and change our minds. That’s normal.

    #4 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Once you start trying to police this shit or telling me what I can or cannot do with shit I've paid for and own, let's just say it gets a little bit messy.

    That’s why I specifically pointed out that only the distributors can fix this.

    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Can we put this nonsense to rest already? It's getting old.

    That’s the whole point of this thread. Find a way to put this nonsense to rest. Fuck the “spot flippers”, and yes it is getting old.

    #5 2 years ago

    I don’t think it is the sellers we need to blame for this, it’s the buyers.

    20
    #6 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Once you start trying to police this shit or telling me what I can or cannot do with shit I've paid for and own, let's just say it gets a little bit messy.

    Problem is you dont own shit yet with a deposit. The machine still belongs to the manufacturer or distributor until its paid in full. A deposit is just a good faith sum paid to say im interested and have some means to prove it between the buyer and seller. It should not be assignable by either party. I have no problem with someone selling something they own and posses for whatever they want. But when non pinheads with no intention of ever taking delivery take spots for profit….. thats just ugly greed. Non transferrable deposits solve that issue.

    #7 2 years ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    That’s why I specifically pointed out that only the distributors can fix this.

    Well, since this is "about the distributors" why not tell me what incentive these guys have to create a bunch of more work for themselves and turn themselves into cops who are now responsible for what their hundreds of customers do with the shit they bought?

    So some rando on the internet stops with these dumb threads once a week? WHat else do they gain from this fairly complicated and demanding undertaking? Do you realize how much additional work and responsibility - for zero financial incentive - this would create for distributors? Do you realize that for every whiny internet rando they satisfy with these ridiculous new policies and penalties, they'd piss off about 5 loyal customers?

    If Pinside ran anything, it would be out of business in a week.

    #8 2 years ago

    I think the real problem is fully grown adults engaging in a virtual black friday melee “shut up and take my money” for a pinball machine.

    I also like pinball machines but let’s be realistic. It’s a total indulgence that no one needs and as long as there are apparently people willing to write massive checks for a spot in line, other people with too much time on their hands will flip and scalp.

    So I vote for “capitalism”. It’s just pinball and it’s great that there are lots of people with tons of disposable (literally) cash.

    Not sure why Stern doesn’t double their prices. They apparently can’t fulfill the demand and customers are oozing money. They totally underprice their product. Why???

    #9 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Do you realize how much additional work and responsibility - for zero financial incentive - this would create for distributors?

    I don’t see how it’s complicated at all. Making the spot or the deposit non-transferable makes it easier for the distributor, not harder.

    And by the way, thanks for calling me a “rando”.

    -7
    #10 2 years ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    I don’t see how it’s complicated at all. Making the spot or the deposit non-transferable makes it easier for the distributor, not harder.

    What incentive does anybody have to do this? Why would distributors want to make their customers' lives more difficult?

    You still don't fucking get it. Distributors are in business of making their CUSTOMERS happy, not people who AREN'T their customers and may want to buy a pinball machine some day.

    You haven't proposed a single thing that makes any sense for anybody in this business. Except for people who are "tired of flippers."

    You ever notice how distributors neve chime in on these threads? It's because they think you are all idiots and they don't want to get themselves in trouble. If they agreed with you, don't you think they'd say so?

    12
    #11 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Distributors are in business of making their CUSTOMERS happy, not people who AREN'T their customers and may want to buy a pinball machine some day.

    No Levi, you still don’t get it. People who buy a spot with the sole intent of flipping it are not “CUSTOMERS”, they’re parasites standing in the way of people who actually want a game. Customers buy pinball machines. I’m sure most distributors would agree with me.

    -1
    #12 2 years ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    No Levi, you still don’t get it. People who “buy” a spot with the sole intent of flipping it are not “CUSTOMERS”, they’re fucking parasites. Customers buy pinball machines. I’m sure most distributors would agree with me.

    Right. Every single person who ever sold a deposit for a profit is a "parasite." None of them simply changed their mind, saw the market, and decided to make a few bucks, while making someone else happy.

    Distributors don't give a fuck. Their business is selling pinball machines. It's what pays their rent and puts food on the table.

    You don't understand that and you never will, apparently.

    13
    #13 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    In other words, as you eloquently say..."Get over it."

    I think you should just take this advice-wherever it came from and apply it to the pricing threads for your own health.

    #14 2 years ago

    I always assumed distributors did this to gauge who was serious about a spot and not just trying to get a spot on 10 different distro lists. But I guess some folks in this market might tie up $10k worth of deposits?

    #15 2 years ago
    Quoted from wisefwumyogwave:

    I think you should just take this advice-wherever it came from and apply it to the pricing threads for your own health.

    When I sit one of these out, about 20 people beg me to come back in!

    Will you guys make up your minds already?

    And my health is fine. Send me your email and I'll send you a screenshot of my recent lab tests and doctor's comments.

    14
    #16 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    IF it's such easy money, why aren't you doing it?

    Because I’m not a shitty person.

    -5
    #17 2 years ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    Because I’m not a shitty person.

    You want to tell an entire industry of people how to do their jobs, without regard for their financial well-being. It's a "shitty" thing to do. This isn't a joke for these people, it's how they feed their families.

    Nothing's worse than having a bunch of know-it-alls tell you how to do your job better.

    #18 2 years ago
    Quoted from Indusguys:

    I don’t think it is the sellers we need to blame for this, it’s the buyers.

    Exactly. I’ve been saying the same thing. However, I also agree with Levi. If you want a spot, do the work to get it. It’s the same as everything else in life. There’s no free lunch…

    11
    #19 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    You are a terrible person. You want to tell an entire industry of people how to do their jobs, without regard for their financial well-being. It's an awful thing to do.

    Hey man, it’s just a suggestion. Obviously I have no say in how distributors run their business. I think you need to climb back down off the ceiling, your reaction is really disproportionate.

    11
    #20 2 years ago
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    #21 2 years ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    Hey man, it’s just a suggestion. Obviously I have no say in how distributors run their business. I think you need to climb back down off the ceiling, your reaction is really disproportionate.

    I'm trying to get you - and the dozens who make these posts every year - to actually think about what your suggestions mean. You think they are "simple" but they aren't. It seems like people always want to change every aspect of this hobby and business, which begs the question, why are you involved in this hobby and business if you dislike so many things about it?

    Distributing pinball machines is a pain in the ass of a way to make a living. None of them want to make their lives more difficult for zero gain, and that's what your suggestion boils down to.

    #22 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    why are you involved in this hobby and business if you dislike so many things about it?

    I love pinball! This is pretty much the only thing I dislike about it. Your comment smacks of “if you hate this country so much, why don’t you leave?”. I’m not leaving.

    #23 2 years ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    People who buy a spot with the sole intent of flipping it are not “CUSTOMERS”

    you said it yourself, they "Buy a spot". If you buy something, you are a customer, whether you like what they do with it after the fact, or not. I sell booze for a living (amongst other things), and when i sell a drink to someone, they can finish it, they can drink half, they can stare at it, they can dump it over their bad Tinder date's head. Once they gave me money for that drink, they became a customer.

    **side note: dumping a drink on someone's head in Jackbar will quickly get that CUSTOMER ejected.

    #24 2 years ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    I love pinball! This is pretty much the only thing I dislike about it. Your comment smacks of “if you hate this country so much, why don’t you leave?”. I’m not leaving.

    You really cherry pick your responses to me. You haven't addressed a single one of my questions to you about why this makes any sense for distributors to do, why it wouldn't cause them problems, or why it wouldn't be a huge unnecessary pain the ass.

    14
    #25 2 years ago

    I don't like it when mommy and daddy fight.

    #26 2 years ago
    Quoted from bigehrl:

    you said it yourself, they "Buy a spot". If you buy something, you are a customer, whether you like what they do with it after the fact, or not. I sell booze for a living (amongst other things), and when i sell a drink to someone, they can finish it, they can drink half, they can stare at it, they can dump it over their bad Tinder date's head. Once they gave me money for that drink, they became a customer.
    **side note: dumping a drink on someone's head in Jackbar will quickly get that CUSTOMER ejected.

    Right but what if the PREBOUGHT a drink spot, and now want to sell that drink to the guy sitting next to them before they even get it. What then!??!?!?!

    #27 2 years ago
    Quoted from gambit3113:

    I don't like it when mommy and daddy fight.

    Right? I think this is the first fight Levi and I ever had!

    #28 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Right but what if the PREBOUGHT a drink spot, and now want to sell that drink to the guy sitting next to them before they even get it. What then!??!?!?!

    and then where does it end??!!??!

    #29 2 years ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    Right? I think this is the first fight Levi and I ever had!

    I may be paranoid but at this point I think every pinball pricing thread OP is simply trolling me!!!

    #30 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    You really cherry pick your responses to me. You haven't addressed a single one of my questions to you about why this makes any sense for distributors to do, why it wouldn't cause them problems, or why it wouldn't be a huge unnecessary pain the ass.

    “Why does it make any sense for distributors to do this?” - because it shows that care about your customers! And here’s where we will always disagree:in my mind, a person who never intended to buy a game is not a customer.

    “Why wouldn’t it cause them problems?” Well, why would it? Explain it to me instead of asking me to prove a negative.

    #31 2 years ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    “Why wouldn’t it cause them problems?” Well, why would it? Explain it to me instead of asking me to prove a negative.

    I'll try to keep this simple.

    I have a choice of buying a deposit - one from a distributor who puts conditions and limitations on what I can do with my deposit, and one who doesn't.

    Which one am I going to buy from?

    Probably the one who doesn't treat me like a baby and try to tell me what I can do with what I just bought from him. You never know what the future will hold, why would I choose to hold myself hostage to a deposit like that, and limit my options?

    #32 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Every single person who ever sold a deposit for a profit is a "parasite." None of them simply changed their mind, saw the market, and decided to make a few bucks, while making someone else happy.

    You missed the phrase “with the sole intent of flipping it”.

    #33 2 years ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    You missed the phrase “with the sole intent of flipping it”.

    Brilliant. WHo do we enforce this exactly? Polygraph tests when you create your FS ad?

    #34 2 years ago

    There was a secondhand person that I knew from a friend. When those re-release NES systems came out a few years ago loaded with some of the old Nintendo games, he was going to Best Buys and buying up stock. He even had some app that read stock levels at all the stores and refreshed pages all day and purchased immediately when available. He would buy them for something like $49 and sell for over $100 on Ebay. He did this for hundreds of them.

    #35 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    I have a choice of buying a deposit - one from a distributor who puts conditions and limitations on what I can do with my deposit, and one who doesn't.
    Which one am I going to buy from?

    Fair enough. I’m buying from the first distributor. But I see from the poll that Pinside agrees that “there is no actual problem”, as you put it.

    18
    #36 2 years ago

    Make it to where the deposit is non-refundable and slots cannot be sold. You either get in line or stay the fuck out.

    Guarantee people will stop that shit real quick.

    #37 2 years ago

    How does a dist. tell if someone never intends to buy a game? Not possible. Game release schedules change, things get canceled, money changes, life changes, people lose their jobs... Repeat offenders will just pick a different distributor... only a phone call away. The only certainty in life is death. While this "problem" may exist to the uninformed hobbyist or those pinball people that "feel left out", no distributor in their right mind is going to turn down money, ever!

    #38 2 years ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    You missed the phrase “with the sole intent of flipping it”.

    I've never pre-ordered a game and have no intention to do so, but I've bought plenty of games with the sole intention to flip them immediately for profit and keep building my collection. Unfortunately I can't afford every new game that comes out (or the old ones either), so I've used the hobby to build my collection from a Space Shuttle I bought in 2016 to what I have now - couldn't have done it otherwise. Sorry if you think that makes me a shitty person, but as Levi eloquently put it, you snooze you lose. You can do the work and find the games (or pre order spot) before me if you have to have them that badly. Otherwise, I'm going to keep working towards my next game.

    #39 2 years ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    I saw a Pinside ad recently that made me feel kind of sick. Someone had put down a $1000 deposit for a Godzilla Premium, and they were trying to flip it for $3k. I think the ad is gone now, but I don’t think this is an isolated example.
    This is something that distributors should have full control over. If someone calls and says “I sold my spot”, tell them: “That’s fine, have the new buyer contact us, and once they’ve paid a deposit we’ll refund your $1000” (or whatever the deposit is). Let’s support distributors who publish and enforce this common-sense policy. Or better yet, support distributors like Flip n Out who don’t require a deposit at all. Then if you change your mind, your spot can go to someone who’s on a waiting list.
    We can’t do much about flippers who resell their new or NIB game, especially if they do it off Pinside. But for crying out loud, someone should at least have to OWN the game (paid in full and delivered) before they can sell it.

    Honestly, I never really thought about trying to flip a $1k deposit on a Stern premium, it sounds like a great idea! It is normally really hard to double or triple your money, especially with a small investment like $1k. It's also *super* low risk, I mean what do you have to lose? Worst case scenario you take delivery and sell it at full retail because it is immediately available. **Thanks for the great fuckin' tip!** The only bitch thread I ever liked! Calling 10 distributors today, ordering Deadpools and Godzillas like you wouldn't believe!

    #40 2 years ago

    I don't have a strong opinion either way on this one, just here to watch Levi spit fire. My man hit the sauce early this St. Paddy's day!

    14
    #41 2 years ago

    In these difficult times I'll do my part. If anybody wants to buy my halloween pre-order for exactly what i paid for it shoot me a PM

    #42 2 years ago

    Selling my Feb 2023 GZ Premium spot that I put a 100 deposit on for 3k if anyone wants it.

    #43 2 years ago
    Quoted from herbertbsharp:

    Calling 10 distributers today, ordering Deadpools and Godzillas like you wouldn't believe!

    yo, can i get one of those? how much?

    #44 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    When I sit one of these out, about 20 people beg me to come back in!

    This is true. Levi is the reason I come on these threads.

    #45 2 years ago
    Quoted from bigehrl:

    yo, can i get one of those? how much?

    For you? $1500 lol

    #46 2 years ago
    Quoted from insight75:

    This is true. Levi is the reason I come on these threads.

    i second that. i remember i really pushed levi to embrace pinside, and to finally come over from RGP. I knew you'd all thank me some day. So, you're welcome.

    #47 2 years ago
    Quoted from bigehrl:

    and to finally come over from RGP.

    This.....explains so much.

    #48 2 years ago

    Don’t put deposits on games. Buy what’s in stock or buy from a show. Multiple games at LAX didn’t sell.

    #49 2 years ago
    Quoted from snyper2099:

    no distributor in their right mind is going to turn down money... ever!

    So, explain to me how distributors that don’t require a deposit are thriving? Are they doing it wrong?

    #50 2 years ago
    Quoted from herbertbsharp:

    For you? $1500 lol

    dammit!! i should've picked one up myself 15 posts ago!

    There are 200 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 4.

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