(Topic ID: 147822)

Demolition Man Switch rows not working


By joekiss

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 104 posts
  • 12 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by pincredible
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 10 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

ic_(resized).jpg
P1060149_(resized).JPG
P1060148_(resized).JPG
P1060147_(resized).JPG
PC290146_(resized).JPG
PC290145_(resized).JPG
PC290144_(resized).JPG
PC290144_(resized).JPG
PC290146_(resized).JPG
PC290145_(resized).JPG

There are 104 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
#1 3 years ago

Row 7 was not working and now Row 8 is not working. MPU and power board are 100% I have switched all of the connectors on J209 on the MPU and have tested continuity from the board to where they should go. What now?

#2 3 years ago

They don't work on the switch test either.

#3 3 years ago

Nothing?

#4 3 years ago

Little fast on the bump there, which makes some people ignore posts. Twelve hours or so would be a reasonable time to bump a technical question.

Quoted from joekiss:

Row 7 was not working and now Row 8 is not working. MPU and power board are 100% I have switched all of the connectors on J209 on the MPU and have tested continuity from the board to where they should go. What now?

You have tested from row 7 and row 8 on the board (not on the connector, but on the board trace) to the playfield row 7 and 8 and have continuity? How do you know the cpu is good? If there's continuity from the board to the playfield and the cpu is good there's not really much left.

Do you get any ground short errors when you go into switch diagnostics?

#5 3 years ago

Ive switched cpus with 2 other games. Same thing.

#6 3 years ago
Quoted from terryb:

You have tested from row 7 and row 8 on the board (not on the connector, but on the board trace) to the playfield row 7 and 8 and have continuity?

Do you get any ground short errors when you go into switch diagnostics?

#7 3 years ago

Switches just didnt register in switch test.

#8 3 years ago

I'm not going to ask the same question a third time, so I'm outta here. I suggest you read my switch matrix troubleshooting guide.

http://pinballrehab.com/1-articles/solid-state-repair/repair-guides/146-switch-matrix-theory-and-troubleshooting

#9 3 years ago

I don't understand when it would say ground short errors. Ive done all switch tests. they show as open when I touch the switch nothing happens. Im somewhat familiar with the test diagnostics

J209-8 goes to J1-2 on the Elevator opto assembly That checked out ok.

I cant find where J209-9 goes to from the CPU to check for continuity.

#10 3 years ago

Just read the error messages section in the manual. I understand your question now and this message does not appear in this test.

#11 3 years ago

Go to every switch in those 2 rows and see if you can find a broken wire.

#12 3 years ago

Today is completely different. I checked every connection from the rear of the CPU to the last switch. All connections seem OK. Now hardly any switches work. I cant even get the start button to work. Difference is today every switch works in a single switch test. WTH?? Could there be something on the power board Im missing?

#13 3 years ago

Can you snap a picture of all the boards in the backbox with the power turned on?
Also a picture of the MPU below the battery pack as well as the wring connected to the bottom of the MPU.

#14 3 years ago

Ive switched mpus with sttng and jd. Works fine in those and they both do the same thing. Im 99% asure the mpu is fine.

#15 3 years ago

Pictures will help.
Knowing the wiring is all connected properly at the bottom of the MPU and that we can see all the LEDs on the driver board will be a good indication that all voltages are present on the driver board. Without 12V digital voltage rail getting to the MPU, your current issue of no switches working would be one suspected item.

#16 3 years ago

Will do.

#17 3 years ago
Quoted from joekiss:

Im 99% asure the mpu is fine.

If I had a nickel every time I was wrong on that one...

#18 3 years ago

I switched CPus with judge Dredd. Same thing. DM CPU works fine in JD

PC290145_(resized).JPG

PC290146_(resized).JPG

#19 3 years ago

PC290144_(resized).JPG

#20 3 years ago

It seems you have all your voltages.

I would swap the top let ribbon cable with another WPC game.

The bottom right two switch matrix input connectors at the bottom right on the MPU looks like someone did not do a good job of replacing the two connectors. I would replace them with molex crimp pins. I think this is a possible source of intermittent switch issues. Doesn't take much for the wires to move and no longer make contact.

#21 3 years ago

Also reseat both of the female connectors within that Z-connector between the MPU and the driver board.

#22 3 years ago

Ive switched driver boards CPU and all ribbons. WTH is wrong?

#23 3 years ago
Quoted from joekiss:

Ive switched driver boards CPU and all ribbons. WTH is wrong?

Quoted from PinballManiac40:

The bottom right two switch matrix input connectors at the bottom right on the MPU looks like someone did not do a good job of replacing the two connectors. I would replace them with molex crimp pins. I think this is a possible source of intermittent switch issues. Doesn't take much for the wires to move and no longer make contact.

#24 3 years ago

All connections have been checked

#25 3 years ago

Take the wire out of the connector for that row and touch it directly to the pin, retest the switches.

#26 3 years ago

Ive checked all continuity. Its all good. Ive checked from the back of the board to the actual switches.

#27 3 years ago

What was wrong with the game and what did you do previous to the row 7 and 8 switches stopped working?

#28 3 years ago

Wow, here is a trick. Put the game in switch test and pull the column and row connectors. Use allegator clips, clamp one side on pin 1 on the row pins and use the other end to touch each pin on the column pins. Each touch should register a switch if used. This will determine if your problem is on the cpu or playfield.

#29 3 years ago

Hmm ok. Have to get some alligator clips

#30 3 years ago
Quoted from joekiss:

Hmm ok. Have to get some alligator clips

Or just use a long piece of wire in a pinch

#31 3 years ago

Hmm ok. Have to get some alligator clips. Ive switched cpus also.

#32 3 years ago
Quoted from MotorCityMatt:

Wow, here is a trick. Put the game in switch test and pull the column and row connectors. Use allegator clips, clamp one side on pin 1 on the row pins and use the other end to touch each pin on the column pins. Each touch should register a switch if used. This will determine if your problem is on the cpu or playfield.

This only seems to test out the MPU board. He already put the DM MPU into JD and it works fine.
Look at his wiring at J207 and J209. Your thoughts on them?

#33 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Your thoughts on them?

They have been redone alright

EDIT: And it looks like 207 could be off a a pin...or 2
EDIT 2: looked at other pic...doesn't seem to be off...my fault

#34 3 years ago

They are jacked for sure, but the op said he checked contiunty?

#35 3 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

They have been redone alright

Not very well. Wires way too long and do not seem to be seated well in each pin.

#36 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Not very well. Wires way too long and do not seem to be seated well in each pin.

Yeah they look all chunky and freaky.

Those are technical terms guys.

#37 3 years ago

OP, What was originally wrong with the game and what repair did you do previous to the row 7 and 8 switches stopped working?

#38 3 years ago
Quoted from joekiss:

Hmm ok. Have to get some alligator clips

eeep. if you are going to buy something please buy mini grabber test clips and not alligator clips. "Elenco Electronics TL-21 Minigrabber to Minigrabber 5 pc Test Lead Set" from amazon for instance. I personally wouldn't use an alligator clip on anything smaller than a #8 screw

#39 3 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

This only seems to test out the MPU board. He already put the DM MPU into JD and it works fine.
Look at his wiring at J207 and J209. Your thoughts on them?

The picture is out of focus, but... J209 looks not very well done. You should not see all of that wire exposed in the middle of the IDC connector. J207 is harder to see, but I presume has the same issues. If a single strand is making contact you will get a good conductivity reading, but the row or column will still not work (current limited).

Get the proper punchdown tool and redo the row and column connectors.

No need to do the jumper test. That just checks the board and that's already been done by replacing it.

#40 3 years ago

I replaced the connectors and haven't snipped the extra. That's why they look silly. Game worked fine then just started getting funny.

#41 3 years ago

Did you use one of these IDC punch tools or a screwdriver?
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/77-IDC

A screwdriver will not get the best connection that you would need.
It is best not to cut the wire. In fact, you only had needed just to only trim a small piece of wire off and punch it in right to the edge of the plastic housing. Going as far as you did is wasting wire. You don't want to loose the length of the wire every time you need to do a wire repair. Eventually you would have to add wire (colors are hard to find in short pieces) or your wire will be forever stressed from being pulled tight.

#42 3 years ago

I used the IDC tool. Too late now.

#43 3 years ago

Reminds me of my demo man switch issues. Never did fix it.

#44 3 years ago

I would still do the jumper trick on the cpu. It takes 5 minutes. Why did you replace the connectors? Was there any corrosion on the old ones?

#45 3 years ago

Can you provide a good picture of the row and column connectors. I'm not talking about the extra wire, I'm talking about the fact that the wire in the middle does not look punched down. Compare that to the other IDC connectors where you can barely see the wire in the middle since it is pushed down into the prongs.

You have confirmed the board is good and you have continuity to playfield on all rows, all that is left is a poor connection. If the entire row does not work that could be at the connector (not completely punched in) or at the first switch in the row (only a couple of strands of wire intact).

I have seen this multiple times.

#46 3 years ago

Game is just screwy now. Turn it on and just keeps shooting balls into the shooter lane. Start button wont work...

#47 3 years ago

We need to see a better close up of the bottom half of the MPU board including the male pins at the bottom connectors, so if you can unplug those J207, J209, and the other 2 that would be great. Since you said there was corrosion on the J207 and J209 female connectors, very likely you have alkaline damage to U18, U19 and the resistors below the battery pack that need to be taken care of. Otherwise, you will continue to have random failures.

#48 3 years ago

And a picture of the J207 and J209 wiring just as terryb asked for as well.

#49 3 years ago

I had the CPU completely serviced and checked. I have switched with 2 other CPUs and have the same problem. The DM CPU works fine in 2 other games. All connections have been verified from the backside of the CPU to the last switch on the PF. The problem has to be somewhere else.

#50 3 years ago
Quoted from joekiss:

I had the CPU completely serviced and checked. I have switched with 2 other CPUs and have the same problem. The DM CPU works fine in 2 other games. All connections have been verified from the backside of the CPU to the last switch on the PF. The problem has to be somewhere else.

You're ignoring questions from some incredibly experienced Pinsiders. Please provide the pictures that terryb asked for so folks can take a look. Otherwise, you're not going to get very far.

Marc

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 18.95
2,500 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Stafford Township, NJ
From: $ 130.20
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
PinWoofer
There are 104 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside