(Topic ID: 101319)

Demolition Man problem

By kevinm

9 years ago


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#19 9 years ago

What other WPC games do you have?
On the MPU, is the W1 or W2 jumper installed? This is above the game ROM.
Also, disconnect and reconnect ALL the ribbon cable connections.

#21 9 years ago

Do you have the correct chip puller for the U9 ASIC chip? I would reseat it.
If you don't have the puller, then just push on it (with power off) and see if anything improves.

1 week later
#25 9 years ago
Quoted from kevinm:

The question I have is: isn't the sound board supposed to make a sound even if it isn't hooked up to the CPU board?

Yes as mentioned above.

Quoted from thedefog:

When you first turn the machine on, you should hear sound, regardless of whether the MPU has booted. The audio board boots on its own first. Do you get that sound, or just no audio during game play? If you get a boot sound, then it is your interconnect between the audio board and MPU, they're not communicating.

#27 9 years ago

I'm tempted to tell you to move the W1 jumper on the MPU to the W2 slot.

#28 9 years ago

I just looked at my Demo Man and it is set for W1.

So, when I unplug the J602 to J201 ribbon cable, it does not boot, only hear a popping noise in my speaker, no bong.
I think you should change this ribbon cable.

Sound board does not sound like it is a problem since a known working board was installed.

#30 9 years ago

There is a chance the other cable connecting the MPU to the fliptronix to sound board to the DMD controller is possibly bad. Ordered that one too by chance?

#32 9 years ago

I am having the same sound issue with a TZ that I'm helping a friend with. I tested his sound board in my TZ today and it works fine. So I need to replace the J602 to J201 ribbon cable next. I had already replaced the other cable which is why I suggested the one. I should be going out to his house on Sunday and I hope I have good news changing out the one ribbon cable.

Though a bit more history on his TZ. The MPU had major acid damage. I bought a working board from Ebay and tested it ok in my Judge Dredd before putting it in his TZ, which is now producing no sound, but it boots up and plays. I also will have to take my TZ eprom with me to see if that is a potential problem as well.

Since you already had an issue with one of your ribbon cables, I hope that is causing your sound problem too.

#34 9 years ago
Quoted from kevinm:

I only purchased the cable that goes to both the sound board and the display driver board. I was thinking I had another unrelated problem with the display, but now I am thinking it may be related. The display was working fine and the game played fine, just no sound. Then the display started to look like a graphic equalizer. Now I wonder if the problem is the cable that goes to both the sound board and the display driver board. Originally I assumed the DMD went bad and I ordered a replacement. I also ordered the HV rebuild kit for the display driver board. So, hopefully one of these things fixes my problems.

The boot up problem you had and reseated the one cable is why I am hoping for just a ribbon cable causing the sound issue. Did you measure the voltages at the DMD? I would not rebuild the HV unless you see an actual voltage problem.

#37 9 years ago
Quoted from kevinm:

The hv at the dmd is 130 and 111. That seems to be a little high. I am not sure that will cause a problem. The other reason I was going to rebuild the hv is it has gotten real hot to the point that there is very little solder on some of the connections and many of the pads are real dark. I just received a new display and plugged it in and it works fine. So, it looks like the original display has a problem. I assume it is the board and not the display itself.

The voltages sounded ok to me, but the solder joints you described is because of a lot of heat.
Let us know what the voltages are after the HV rebuild.

Hopefully once you get the ribbon cable, that will solve your sound problem. I will not be going to my friends' house on Sunday to look at his TZ sound problem further. Seems that I may not get a chance until 9/28 or even on 10/5

#39 9 years ago
Quoted from kevinm:

I rebuilt the HV and the voltages have gone higher. They are now 138 and 116. Now I am afraid to plug in my new DMD.

I'm hoping that Chris Hibler can answer this. I repaired very few, so I don't know if that is too higher or that only thing that matters is that there is 12 volt difference between these 2 voltages.
I'm thinking they are ok.

I'm pretty sure that I have at least one board with those measurements. Though, I am seeing at times when the machine is cold (off for a day or two) it takes about 10 seconds before anything comes up on my DMD. Once warmed it, this is no longer an issue. My DMD does not look like it has many dark dots when it is off.

#41 9 years ago

Sound always has been an issue (hope that is a ribbon cable that he wil try soon).
Recently his DMD was acting up, so he rebuilt the HV section.

#43 9 years ago

I think a moderator can reverse it for you.

#45 9 years ago
Quoted from kevinm:

I installed the new cables and I now have sound. In addition my original DMD is working again.

Excellent. Glad to hear that.

#46 9 years ago
Quoted from kevinm:

The only thing that is still a problem is I still get the pop sound when I turn it on and again when I turn it off. I assume that indicates a power problem but I am not sure where to look.

This definately is the sound board.

#48 9 years ago
Quoted from kevinm:

The only thing that is still a problem is I still get the pop sound when I turn it on and again when I turn it off.

This definately is the sound board. I had replaced the 2 big caps on the sound board on my Theatre of Magic, but I can't recall if that fixed it or I changed another part as well. You defintaly have to be very careful when unsoldering these caps as they fit in very tightly in the board so it makes it easy to damage the feedthroughs. If you remove the caps, make sure you ohm from the pads on the top side of the board to the bottom side to make sure there is connection before installing new caps.

I do have this with a couple of other machines I have, but I have yet to make time to change those caps.

Can you look at your 2 caps to see if they are bulging out on the tops of them?

#49 9 years ago
Quoted from kevinm:

I rebuilt the HV and the voltages have gone higher. They are now 138 and 116. Now I am afraid to plug in my new DMD.

Now that the HV has the load of the DMD on it, what do these voltage measure as now? Just curious.

#51 9 years ago

Yeah, it seemed like a lot of the boot up and DMD issues were related being that happened at different times after reseating the cables.

#52 9 years ago

Note to self....have a set of new ribbon cables when making house calls.

#55 9 years ago
Quoted from kevinm:

With the DMD plugged in the voltages are still at 138 and 116.

Thank you for the info. Hope you're enjoying your game with the sound for the first time.
Any other boot up issues since changing the ribbon cables?

#57 9 years ago

Sounds like you need to pull the board and check the solder joints on that connector.

Retest the other sound board and sell one of them. I don't see a need to have a spare one.
A spare driver board makes sense as that would be the board that gives the most trouble.

#59 9 years ago

Which one is the new DMD?
I'm worried the the ghosting and the other issue may be due to the high 136 volts.

#61 9 years ago

I think you need to check to see if there any cracked solder joints on your DMD controller board that the two ibbon cables plug into. I need a magnifying glass to see any as they are pretty small joints as it is.

Good chance that the Babcock may have a cracked solder joint as well. That will take a lot to look over carefully. The Vishay ghosting, I'm wondering if you should reseat your ASIC (u9) on the MPU. You need the correct chip puller for it or you will damage the IC socket and would then need to replace it.

#63 9 years ago

Did you check for solder shorts between the pins? Sometimes solder shorts are very small that you have to measure them with an ohmmeter.

What does it do with the other DMD?

#68 9 years ago
Quoted from balboarules:

I wonder if after that rebuild of the HV section your voltage is too high, did anyone confirm the voltages were correct since you posted what it was out putting?

I wonder as well.
No one else yet replied if it was too high of voltage.

#70 9 years ago
Quoted from kevinm:

I haven't seen any verification if the voltages are ok. I even looked at other postings and couldn't find anything. I just checked the voltages again and they are 134 and 113. Seems strange that they have changed since I haven't done anything to the power section of the board.

Are there any parts in the HV kit you did not use?

#75 9 years ago

Wish I had a spare DMD controller board to send to you to test out.
Getting my machines ready for the Houston Arcade Expo that is happening in just a month.

A couple of my machines have no HV at all and I don't need it since they are running the ColorDMD.

#79 9 years ago
Quoted from kevinm:

I am helping my son move from Michigan to Houston the last week of Oct. He is also a pinball collector. I will have to let him know about the expo. Maybe he can make it to the show.

We shall welcome him.
The Houston Arcade Expo is Nov 7th and 8th.
www.arcadecenter.com

If you are still around on Friday 10/31, then hit Joystix at 9pm to 2am for $15 a person.
www.joystixgames.com (PacMan Fever is only 1st and last Friday of the month)

#80 9 years ago
Quoted from kevinm:

Well, I hate to buy more boards I may not need, but I just ordered a new Rottendog replacement board.

DMD controller board is a good one to have as a spare.
Though, I would test out the other sound board and sell one of those.
Rarely a sound board has a problem.

#82 9 years ago
Quoted from balboarules:

Same reading when I check voltages on the display driver board.. 143.9, 27.6,10.3

What are you using as ground? Those voltages are not looking good.
I normally just wedge my black lead under the ground braid wire at the bottom of the backbox so I don't have to hold that lead.

#84 9 years ago

He is measuring the 2 highest voltages at the power connector of the DMD.
-138 and -116 are the first two voltages he is seeing.

#86 9 years ago

From Pinwiki.com

pin 1 -110V (-124V in early DMD machines) (anode voltage)
pin 2 -98V Must be 12V less than anode voltage. Will be about 20V less than anode voltage if display not connected
Key 3
Ground pin 4
Ground pin 5
pin 6 5V
pin 7 12V
pin 8 68V

#87 9 years ago
Quoted from balboarules:

Interesting as mine are 143.9 and 27.6.. I know the 27.6 is below where it should be, but I have no issues on my display at all.. what are the correct voltages at these 2 points?

Put your meter on ohms and put your leads together.
Wondering if your meter is reading wrong or you have a bad lead.
Have zero ohms? Less than .4 ohms is typical good reading.

#92 9 years ago
Quoted from balboarules:

I think I had my meter on the wrong V side.. Readings are coming out more accurate.. I did say I have a tiny bit of knowledge on this stuff... so there you go.. will post new readings in a min.. also just found out I was sold a DMD that I never bothered to test and it has 6 lines out, if I squeeze it together a few come back.. any idea how to repair, I know that is the internal ribbon cable..

Those are some good readings.
I actually have a couple of lines out on a DMD with an internal ribbon cable as well.
Hadn't messed with one of those yet. I need too though.

As I recall his other measurements were good other than the first two reading too high.

1 week later
#102 9 years ago

Does the DMD come on at all?

1 week later
#108 9 years ago
Quoted from kevinm:

I got my DMD controller board back from Rottendog. He didn't charge me anything. There was nothing wrong with the board. He put a note in the package to ignore the -125v test point.
This was a real learning experience for me I want to thank everyone for the help you provided.

Which is why I was wonder if as long as there was a 12 volt difference than the '98v' and '110v' would there be a problem with the 125v you were seeing. I have a Judge Dredd with about the same readings as you are getting. Only thing I can tell is higher the voltage, the faster the plasma DMD will 'burn out'.

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