(Topic ID: 101319)

Demolition Man problem


By kevinm

5 years ago



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  • 108 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by PinballManiac40
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There are 108 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
#1 5 years ago

I have a demolition man that has problems starting up. I recently purchased the machine and it ran fine except the sound didn't work. Then I had a problem with the display not working right and now the machine won't startup. If I disconnect the 34 pin ribbon cable from the display controller board the machine will startup. So, I replaced all of the components on the display controller board that are directly connected to the 34 pin connector. Nothing has changed. I am not sure what the next step is that I should take.

#2 5 years ago

Call Clay, info at pinrepair.com, sounds like you bought a lemon. He can fix it.

#3 5 years ago

I am trying to learn how these machines work, not to pay someone to fix it for me. Since I am not familiar with this machine I was hoping to get some hints on what to look at. I don't mind working on them myself.

#4 5 years ago

PSU voltages checking out okay? Disconnect all power connectors to all boards except for the AC from the transformer going to the PSU and rectifiers, and probe your voltages and post hem here. Be very careful with the high voltages section in particular. Start from there, then we'll move on section by section.

#5 5 years ago

The Ninja can help you Kevin-san...

#6 5 years ago

Try PinWiki if you haven't already, specifically under WPC problems and solutions. I've been lucky enough to avoid start up issues so far so don't have any hands on advice for you, but PinWiki usually at least gets me on the right track. 4.3 Power-On LEDs and Sound Tones (Bongs) should give you an idea where to start.

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Jumpers.2C_RAM_and_ROM_size

#7 5 years ago

Hopefully I didn't miss any of the connectors. The voltages are as follows on the power driver board:
J107 pin1 5.6v
J107 pin2 5.6v
J107 pin3 5.6v
J107 pin5 21v
J107 pin6 21v

J104 pin1 4.8vac
J104 pin2 4.8vac

J114 pin1 12v
J114 pin2 12v
J114 pin3 5v
J114 pin4 5v

J118 pin3 5v
J118 pin2 15v

#8 5 years ago

50 Volt circuit is not ok. Check interlock switch and transformer voltages.
Measure between J104-1 and J104-2 with DMM on Vac

solenoid-circuit1.jpg

#9 5 years ago

There was a bad connection at the interlock switch. I now have 52vac at J104.

#10 5 years ago

Did that do anything?

#11 5 years ago

No change.

#12 5 years ago

Wel at least you have that sorted out. Time to move onto the other boards. Start with the mpu and nothing else powered. Plug only the +5v and 12v connector into the board. From there you can do things like check pias and other board logic for issues before moving on.http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/desega/index1.htm

#13 5 years ago

I did that. When I turn it on the three lights work as follows:
First the top and bottom lights are on.
After short time the top light turns off and the middle light flashes continuously.

What is the next step? The website you referenced is for Data East machines.

#14 5 years ago

All working now. It turned out to be a connection problem between the boards. Now I have to go back to my original problem of no sound.

#15 5 years ago

When you first turn the machine on, you should hear sound, regardless of whether the MPU has booted. The audio board boots on its own first. Do you get that sound, or just no audio during game play? If you get a boot sound, then it is your interconnect between the audio board and MPU, they're not communicating.

If you get nothing at all, try wiggling the volume pot back and forth first. Can you hear any static or hiss coming from the speaker when the volume is maxed out? If so, the audio amp itself is probably okay. A poor pin connector to the speaker is a possibility, as is a blown out speaker, but in most cases you will still hear something like a distorted fart unless the voice coil is completely melted down. If you have a 4 or 8 ohm speaker laying around like a car stereo speaker, you can remove the wires to the cabinet speaker and connect it to that to check and see if that is indeed the case. At that point, it is worth installing connectors to the speaker wires so you don't have to solder directly to the speaker tabs. No static or hiss at all even with a different speaker and the connectors solid, then it could be a faulty TDA2002/2003 amp or a failed cap(s).

If that all checks out, then it could be anything from bad EPROMs to faulty CPU, RAM, Clock/xtal, D/A converter. You name it. There are ways to check all of them. How do the sockets look? Anything rusted up or corroded looking?

#16 5 years ago

I get no sound at all except when I turn it on or off I get a pop out of the speakers. I hooked up a different speaker and got the same results. I had found a couple of broken traces that I fixed. They didn't make any difference. The sockets all look clean. Overall the board is pretty clean.

#17 5 years ago

The fact you get a pop when you turn it on suggests that at least power is getting to the speaker. No hiss or hum though, even when volume is maxed out? Rule out a bad volume pot by shorting the wiper to the output lug with an alligator clip and see if you get anything. I know on the DE games, you'll have to remove that dumbass shield over the long shaft volume pot to do it, but it is worth opening that and seeing if there is just a loose wire or something. Could be as dumb as a wire fell off of the solder lug on the pot.

#18 5 years ago

This machine doesn't have a pot for volume control. The volume is changed electronically with the buttons on the coin door. I can change the volume setting and it shows the level changing on the display, but it does nothing.

#19 5 years ago

What other WPC games do you have?
On the MPU, is the W1 or W2 jumper installed? This is above the game ROM.
Also, disconnect and reconnect ALL the ribbon cable connections.

#20 5 years ago

On the MPU W1 jumper is in. I tried reseating all of the connectors. No change after doing so.

I don't have any other WPC machines.

#21 5 years ago

Do you have the correct chip puller for the U9 ASIC chip? I would reseat it.
If you don't have the puller, then just push on it (with power off) and see if anything improves.

#22 5 years ago

I don't have a chip puller for U9. I did push on it and that made no difference.

1 week later
#23 5 years ago

I bought a chip puller and reseated U9. Still no change. I then bought another sound board. It is used, but was sold as working and did work just before it was sent to me. It is doing the same thing as the original board. The only thing that is common between the 2 boards are the EPROMs. So, I am going to replace the EPROMs to see if that helps. The question I have is: isn't the sound board supposed to make a sound even if it isn't hooked up to the CPU board? Also is there something else I should be looking at?

#24 5 years ago

Have you installed new ribbon cables yet?

#25 5 years ago
Quoted from kevinm:

The question I have is: isn't the sound board supposed to make a sound even if it isn't hooked up to the CPU board?

Yes as mentioned above.

Quoted from thedefog:

When you first turn the machine on, you should hear sound, regardless of whether the MPU has booted. The audio board boots on its own first. Do you get that sound, or just no audio during game play? If you get a boot sound, then it is your interconnect between the audio board and MPU, they're not communicating.

#26 5 years ago

All that happens when I turn on the machine is I get a load pop sound. The same thing happens when I turn it off. It does the same thing if the ribbon cable is connected or not connected. I didn't change the ribbon cable because the sound board doesn't seem to be working on its own. I also checked continuity of the cable and everything was good.

#27 5 years ago

I'm tempted to tell you to move the W1 jumper on the MPU to the W2 slot.

#28 5 years ago

I just looked at my Demo Man and it is set for W1.

So, when I unplug the J602 to J201 ribbon cable, it does not boot, only hear a popping noise in my speaker, no bong.
I think you should change this ribbon cable.

Sound board does not sound like it is a problem since a known working board was installed.

#29 5 years ago

Unfortunately I don't have a cable. So, I just ordered a cable. I will provide an update when I get it.

#30 5 years ago

There is a chance the other cable connecting the MPU to the fliptronix to sound board to the DMD controller is possibly bad. Ordered that one too by chance?

#31 5 years ago

I personally would just order a full new set, they are usually original and now 20 years old, I know you used to be able to get the entire set from GPE, it was not bad for the set..

#32 5 years ago

I am having the same sound issue with a TZ that I'm helping a friend with. I tested his sound board in my TZ today and it works fine. So I need to replace the J602 to J201 ribbon cable next. I had already replaced the other cable which is why I suggested the one. I should be going out to his house on Sunday and I hope I have good news changing out the one ribbon cable.

Though a bit more history on his TZ. The MPU had major acid damage. I bought a working board from Ebay and tested it ok in my Judge Dredd before putting it in his TZ, which is now producing no sound, but it boots up and plays. I also will have to take my TZ eprom with me to see if that is a potential problem as well.

Since you already had an issue with one of your ribbon cables, I hope that is causing your sound problem too.

#33 5 years ago

I only purchased the cable that goes to both the sound board and the display driver board. I was thinking I had another unrelated problem with the display, but now I am thinking it may be related. The display was working fine and the game played fine, just no sound. Then the display started to look like a graphic equalizer. Now I wonder if the problem is the cable that goes to both the sound board and the display driver board. Originally I assumed the DMD went bad and I ordered a replacement. I also ordered the HV rebuild kit for the display driver board. So, hopefully one of these things fixes my problems.

#34 5 years ago
Quoted from kevinm:

I only purchased the cable that goes to both the sound board and the display driver board. I was thinking I had another unrelated problem with the display, but now I am thinking it may be related. The display was working fine and the game played fine, just no sound. Then the display started to look like a graphic equalizer. Now I wonder if the problem is the cable that goes to both the sound board and the display driver board. Originally I assumed the DMD went bad and I ordered a replacement. I also ordered the HV rebuild kit for the display driver board. So, hopefully one of these things fixes my problems.

The boot up problem you had and reseated the one cable is why I am hoping for just a ribbon cable causing the sound issue. Did you measure the voltages at the DMD? I would not rebuild the HV unless you see an actual voltage problem.

#35 5 years ago

I just ordered the complete set of cables from GPE.

#36 4 years ago

The hv at the dmd is 130 and 111. That seems to be a little high. I am not sure that will cause a problem. The other reason I was going to rebuild the hv is it has gotten real hot to the point that there is very little solder on some of the connections and many of the pads are real dark. I just received a new display and plugged it in and it works fine. So, it looks like the original display has a problem. I assume it is the board and not the display itself.

#37 4 years ago
Quoted from kevinm:

The hv at the dmd is 130 and 111. That seems to be a little high. I am not sure that will cause a problem. The other reason I was going to rebuild the hv is it has gotten real hot to the point that there is very little solder on some of the connections and many of the pads are real dark. I just received a new display and plugged it in and it works fine. So, it looks like the original display has a problem. I assume it is the board and not the display itself.

The voltages sounded ok to me, but the solder joints you described is because of a lot of heat.
Let us know what the voltages are after the HV rebuild.

Hopefully once you get the ribbon cable, that will solve your sound problem. I will not be going to my friends' house on Sunday to look at his TZ sound problem further. Seems that I may not get a chance until 9/28 or even on 10/5

#38 4 years ago

I rebuilt the HV and the voltages have gone higher. They are now 138 and 116. Now I am afraid to plug in my new DMD.

#39 4 years ago
Quoted from kevinm:

I rebuilt the HV and the voltages have gone higher. They are now 138 and 116. Now I am afraid to plug in my new DMD.

I'm hoping that Chris Hibler can answer this. I repaired very few, so I don't know if that is too higher or that only thing that matters is that there is 12 volt difference between these 2 voltages.
I'm thinking they are ok.

I'm pretty sure that I have at least one board with those measurements. Though, I am seeing at times when the machine is cold (off for a day or two) it takes about 10 seconds before anything comes up on my DMD. Once warmed it, this is no longer an issue. My DMD does not look like it has many dark dots when it is off.

#40 4 years ago

Hmm topic is marked as resolved but it still seems like the op is still having problems
maybe I missed something

#41 4 years ago

Sound always has been an issue (hope that is a ribbon cable that he wil try soon).
Recently his DMD was acting up, so he rebuilt the HV section.

#42 4 years ago

I noticed it was marked as resolved, not sure how that happened. I don't see a way to reverse that.

#43 4 years ago

I think a moderator can reverse it for you.

#44 4 years ago

I installed the new cables and I now have sound. In addition my original DMD is working again. The only thing that is still a problem is I still get the pop sound when I turn it on and again when I turn it off. I assume that indicates a power problem but I am not sure where to look.

#45 4 years ago
Quoted from kevinm:

I installed the new cables and I now have sound. In addition my original DMD is working again.

Excellent. Glad to hear that.

#46 4 years ago
Quoted from kevinm:

The only thing that is still a problem is I still get the pop sound when I turn it on and again when I turn it off. I assume that indicates a power problem but I am not sure where to look.

This definately is the sound board.

#47 4 years ago

Thanks for all of the help.

#48 4 years ago
Quoted from kevinm:

The only thing that is still a problem is I still get the pop sound when I turn it on and again when I turn it off.

This definately is the sound board. I had replaced the 2 big caps on the sound board on my Theatre of Magic, but I can't recall if that fixed it or I changed another part as well. You defintaly have to be very careful when unsoldering these caps as they fit in very tightly in the board so it makes it easy to damage the feedthroughs. If you remove the caps, make sure you ohm from the pads on the top side of the board to the bottom side to make sure there is connection before installing new caps.

I do have this with a couple of other machines I have, but I have yet to make time to change those caps.

Can you look at your 2 caps to see if they are bulging out on the tops of them?

#49 4 years ago
Quoted from kevinm:

I rebuilt the HV and the voltages have gone higher. They are now 138 and 116. Now I am afraid to plug in my new DMD.

Now that the HV has the load of the DMD on it, what do these voltage measure as now? Just curious.

#50 4 years ago

Glad to hear the cables worked.. I kinda had a feeling that would do it..

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