Switch matrix diagram.

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Active switch state.

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If the trough is empty then the software is not seeing "Trough 3" and "Trough 5". This means that it will likely be very confused and place additional balls into the shooter lane.

If the trough is loaded then all the switches "Trough 1" through to "Trough 5" should be showing as OPEN. The only switch that should be showing closed is "Trough Jam".

If the transmitters are shown to be working (your phone camera can see them) then your problem is likely to be on the receiver board. It could be either the phototransistor or the state detection logic (comparators).

Hi just did reflow on every soldered pin on RC side... no effect.
How to test LM339 (suppose these are the comparators you're talking about ?) and how to test phototransistors ?

Have you tried flexing the connectors on the opto through board when in switch test ?
If you find that this changes the state of the switches, then I would suggest changing the connector on the cable in addition to reflowing the connector on the boards.
This is a known weak spot for these machines (and other with the same opto through).
The connectors are IDC connectors where the cables come loose with vibration. Not always easy to detect with the bare eye.

Nope not tested yet... will try tonight, thx for the hint.
Was hoping I could use my RS boards to test but they are different (at least TX side), didn't check other one...
Maybe the STTNG ones are similar...

Let's hope it just the connector.

Great job.. Did you do the LED Buttons yourself?
I know those are expensive purchase kit ready to go.

Probably a stupid question but you have ruled out magnetized balls? I used ball barons one time in my Dirty Harry and they magnetized quick and caused all sort of trough issues.

Yep… just grabbed a pair off of eBay for like $15…. Easy enough to wire up and light up.

These are on their way back to me (from France to Belgium)
2K paint

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Unfortunately no changes detected but, repushed all cables in with my IDC tool... no effect.

trough 3 & 5 still detect a ball when there is none, strange thing is 3 & 5 were working fine when 4 was not working and before I changed emitting IR LED from 4.
Now 4 is working ok but killed his neighbours

<disclaimer - my opinion - many will disagree>

Advice to reflow solder joints is often bad advice. It is often given without any evidence to perform the procedure. Often the procedure is incorrectly performed and just causes more problems for the next person. I know at least one other repair technician that agrees with this opinion. I get disappointed when I see a mound of solder that someone just dumped on a joint for no good reason after taking bad advice.

</disclaimer - my opinion - many will disagree>

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Williams_WPC#Opto_Switches

Specifically see section 6.26.6.3. Although the information is specific to the 7-opto board the electrical procedure works for the ball trough receiver board used in the widebody DCS machines. To do this test you will need to remove the board from the ball trough assembly for easier access.

Road Show trough boards are incompatible. They are just transmitters and receivers. The state detection logic is on the main opto board. Williams switched to this configuration after Demolition Man.

Star Trek TNG trough opto transmitter and receiver boards are compatible. You could try swapping those.

With repairs (or attempted repairs) it is often best to change one part of the system at a time. Re-test between each change and assess. This helps isolate changes and effects. The quickest way forward for you is to take the known good boards from your Star Trek TNG and swap them (one at a time) and see what happens. Observe the effects on the switch matrix with the ball trough EMPTY (no balls). Refer back to the switch matrix diagram to make sure the switch matrix state is as expected.

It's getting more complicated.
Took boards out of sttng (checkecd everything first overthere and all fine)
Transmitter board from DM in STTNG : ok results in switch test, so that one is ok (put it back in DM)
Then I took the recevier board from STTNG and put it in DM with (original TX board on the other side)
Same result as before for trough 3 and 5.
What cable colors are controlling these ?

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Try this :
Take *both* boards out of DM and put in STTNG.
Check that all switches work, check wiggling connectors - if all is fine, then you know both boards work.
If both boards work I would suggest new connectors and repinning of both connectors in you DM.

Good. This is the control.

Good. This is expected. The 5-pin connector to this board is simply power. I would have taken the known good transmitter board from the TNG and put it in the DM since this keeps the wiring of the machine constant.

You likely have a wiring problem since the receiver board is known good from the TNG.

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You can verify your CPU board disconnecting J206/J207 and J208/J209. Enter switch test for edges (T.1)

1. Short pin J207-3 to J209-3. Note result. Expect switch 33 (Trough 3) to register.
2. Short pin J207-3 to J209-5. Note result. Expect switch 35 (Trough 5) to register.

If the switches register then there's nothing wrong with your CPU board. This is expected because the image of the matrix you posted shows other switches in those rows as closed.

It is likely you have a break in the wiring for those rows (WHT-ORG and WHT-GRN). It is most likely to be at the connector itself since the board from the TNG works in the TNG. Measure continuity from the WHT-ORG and WHT-GRN wires to the connector at J209. If no continuity then search for the break. If you are uncertain start with images of the header for inspection by others on this forum. If you have continuity then something else is going on. Start with this. All the evidence points to a break in the wiring or a bad connector.

In STTNG they work fine...so will analyse Dumbass ideas.... and check CPU board connectors and continuity...
Have to find issue !

Test on CPU board ok : pin 207-3 to all throughs reporting right switches in test menu

Continuity between small opto board and big one ok.
Continuity between opto and J209 cables (on connnectors at side of IDC push in clips) : all ok

and as you can see now Trough one joined the party as well !

Hmm... more ideas ?

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Did you measure continuity on top of the IDC connectors - or on the opto PCB itself ?

yes on top of the connector, metal clip where cable is pushed in.
Don't think I understand 'on opto pcb' ? You mean leave connector only 90% pushed in on pcb and than measure the still a bit accessable pins under connector ?

For example - or with the connector 100% in and measure the solder points under the PCB.

ok just did that on solder points for white orange/brown/green and there was connectivity till connectot J209 pin 1/3/5
So i suppose connector on opto pcb is ok...?

Other small one on Tx pcb is also ok, getting 15V in on that one and LED's on

Well, if you're sure all connectors are good, the switch matrix works when you test it directly on the MPU board and both boards work in STTNG I'm not sure what might cause this.
I had a TZ clock where I had to increase the current through one of the LEDs to make it brighter or the switch would be erratic.

You say you have tried the RX board from STTNG in DM - but have you tried both boards from STTNG in DM at the same time ?

rvermeire Just to make sure :

Is this picture *with* balls in the through or *without* balls in the through ?

Optos are opposite from normal switches.
They show "switch closed" when there is no obstruction (i.e. no ball) and "switch open" when the light from emitter to receiver is stopped (i.e. ball in through).
So if you have all balls in the through here, it seems to me it is switch 2 and 4 that are not working.

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Don't mean to derail the current troubleshooting but I too have a weird one that I hope someone can help with!

I've owned my DM for about 3 months with no issues.

Today, when using the claw, if I drop the ball through 'capture simon' it registers as the 'super jets' award. Dropping on 'super jets' ALSO registers as the 'super jets' award as expected.

I'm not experienced at all in working on pinball machines and I also haven't done any work to it.

Mechanically I can't imagine what would have happened to the switch to have it start registering differently. Any thoughts on how to fix?

That's a good one. I'm curious how this could even happen as well. Hopefully someone can help.

Might be the case that, if no switch is triggered in a certain amount of time, it defaults to super pops or something?

I would go into swtich test and activate the switch you wanted to activate, and see if any others activate...may just be a bad diode in there somewhere

Wondering if the capture simon switch arm broke and the previous operator just jigged it to the super pops....

Switch test is your next bet.

monkfe & others:

Tried a switch test and it seems to be registering correctly when I activate the Capture Simon switch. I Started a game right after and dropped the ball into capture simon and it registered correctly ONCE and then every subsequent try it's still registering as super jets.

Perhaps theres a clue on my switch test? Again, very new to this so looking at the resulting screen from the test isn't revealing anything to me

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Chk switch diodes on every switch that connects to capture simon switch. They will be chained.

I had a similar problem some time ago. Dropping the ball in the hole it sometimes missed the arm of the switch and the game was assuming a different mode based on where it ended up afterwards...very confusing. Fixed by bending the arm slightly to make it register consistently.

Anyone have a scan of this plastic? Please pm me

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Got swap boards in from pinside user, now everything works ! still don't understand why my sttng boards didn't work...

But ok it works now, I move on to a last problem.
Left flippers power is weak when activated with the buttons, if i use handle triggers to activate they are powerful.. cleaned opto with Q tip and alcohol...

Hmm finally got around to swapping optos from another vuk and the switch seems to detect things correctly now but the solenoid still fires several times when placed into normal game mode or turned on. Very odd. Will see if I can order a new set of optos.

UPDATE on Demo Man ramps, etc...

The first wave of Demo Man ramps are complete.....well, I'm still applying decals and the exit brackets which are optional. I will start tonight sending out pm's to the folks toward the top of my list. There are always a few anxious folks that I do ship to provided they are towards the top of the list. In total I have produced just over 100 total pieces so far. Everything I have shipped so far had been complete sets. The prices previously posted (#4777) are good although I have added a $30 discount for the full set. What I have produced is maybe half of what I need, but I want to get some of this stuff moving as well as see what people are ordering so I can adjust my production to match.

First, if you know you are on the list and do not wish to purchase, please, please let me know so I can whittle down the list. For this first round of shipping I will likely fill full set requests first, but those of you who only want certain pieces(s), please let me know that as well so I can maximize production to get what everyone wants as fast as I can.

You will see two versions of the Car Tunnel in the attached photos. One with the slots in the top and one without. So far everyone has selected the version with no slots as there seems to be no pressing reason for them and the look is much, much cleaner.

I'll be honest, I generally only follow the list for a while as it's very time consuming...time better spent making ramps! While I have been working diligently on the Demo Man pieces, my inventory of other ramps has dwindled, so in addition to getting these produced as efficiently as I can....with your help letting me know what you want, I can simply plan better. Once I get through the Demo Man release, I expect I will be taking at least a month off for Cryogenic therapy...kidding...but seriously will be taking some time off to enjoy the summer which has finally arrived in Seattle.

Attached are photos of the new ramps. I also couldn't resist posting a photo of one of the ramps (Center) for a before and after!

All 6 pieces were formed with thicker plastic and I am very pleased with how all of them came out...including the left ramp which I decided to toss 20 pieces in the trash and reform them plug assisted to strengthen it.

The brackets for the three playfield ramps are optional at $7 each...for now. I have been told that the price is likely to go up on those. For those ordering the full set or perhaps just the Cryo-Claw piece, the Cryo-Claw piece will require riveting of the two associated switch plates. I encourage anyone to seek out JodyG here on Pinside aka rampomatic.com for riveting kits which he has back in stock. In addition to needing the ability to rivet the Cryo-Claw, you can save $21 on the exit brackets if you use your existing 3 brackets. Both Jody and I are more than willing to help anyone learn how to rivet....honestly, it's easy if you have the right rivets and the right tool.

You do not have to wait for me to pm you if you know what you want...just shoot me a pm.

As I finished the last first wave piece (Subway) today, I did have to kick back for a double rum and coke!

WHEW!

Mark

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I picked up a DM two weeks ago and started immediately with a top side tear down. I’ve now put it back together three times, each time creating and discovering a new switch problem / broken solder joint or something. Those ramps are such a tight fit…this is def not my favorite to work on.

Nice work on the ramps, Mark. They are tempting as Ive discovered my ramps all have minor issues.

Totally agree, in fact, I think Slippi's colorization for Demo Man is superior to the ColorDMD anyway.

Also, I have a one last brand new activated pin2dmd set up for DemoMan that includes SD card, and cables from a recent build. PM me if interested.

That Blue cryo claw piece is soooooooooosexy!!! I might need to get one! Especially since I changed so much in my machine over to blue.

A friend of mine has these handles for sale.

Chromed by the legendary Mike Chestnut.

Anyone know what they might be worth?

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Just added lighted pinball speaker Grill. I think they really make the look, and they do not cause any reflection issues on the glass while playing.

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I think the plating alone is $300 usd..

So these must be $9999999.99 canadian dollars

Hello! Having a problem with my Demolition Man that I'm not sure how to debug (I'm extremely new to maintenance!).

About 10-20% time when shooting claw, the game doesn't "register" that the ball is sitting in the elevator. I haven't quite figured out a pattern for when this occurs. The ball search routine will push the ball up into claw (which will hold for a bit then drop back down), but I can't move the claw because the machine just thinks the ball is still on the playfield. Here is a video showing the ball getting stuck, and the game state not progressing (you can infer from the DMD): https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipP8A3JydhHm2KPLumIISZDDPzuqC7eLzNZ9sJcP

I'm looking for suggestions on how to debug, I don't quite have a mental model for how all this works yet.

* I think there's an opto on the elevator (from visual inspection, and I think confirmed by assembly diagram in manual page 2-25) which I'm going to clean. But this doesn't feel right to me - in ball search mode the ball is physically taken out of the elevator then put back in (you can see this in video above), and nudging/jiggling the ball around doesn't fix. Given this works most of the time, I would expect that kind of replacement/movement to generally fix - which it doesn't.
* I feel like there might be another switch or something that is getting missed but not sure how to locate it.
* The only fix I've found is to restart the machine, but even that only works sometimes - the regular startup routine will often pick up the ball and drop it in acmag, but just as often the claw doesn't magnetize, as seen in this video: https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipNLDWa8LCshauRzg_TRxBE50zGmyOBZrLd-pxky

Would welcome any suggestions or mental models to help me work through this problem. Thank you!

I had a similar issue, but I realized eventually that it only happened after the game had been on for a while, so I completely rebuilt the power supply and haven't had the issue again so far

Nice Matrix diagram photo. I need one for my TZ. May I ask where you got it? Maybe I can find a TZ one there…no luck so far. Love my Demolition Man! Picture unrelated

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Thanks for the response - I'm not quite desperate enough to try this yet! Going to start tracking if it happens in similar situations to what you describe though.

Those are sexy!!!

Just noticed there was some people interested in my pinsound mix for demo man.

I had to take a break from pinball because my job is very summer heavy and I've been working way too much. About mid August my schedule will be opening up more for me to finish projects that are pinball related.

My Demo man RATM mix is still only about 60 percent complete. I've had a few people over to test it and the consensus is that the music fits pretty well with modes and overall theme. I got to keep working with some sound effects, and lay some tracks for modes I haven't touched yet. I'm hoping to have it ready for public testing at the end of the month.

Goal is to finish the mix, see if anyone is interested in testing, send it out, then fix and tweak anything. Plan on submitting my demo man for judging at tpf next year.

If interested in testing this mix send me a DM and I'll let you know when it's ready for testing.

New issue on my DM.

Row 4 GND short...

When I remove J9 on the near coindoor board (tilt plumb) row 4 acts normally and everything works (except tilt)

J9:
PIN 1 : white/yellow cable part of row 4
PIN 3 : Green/brown cable on tilt goes to J207-1 (column 1 in matrix)

When i just leave the green/brown cable unconnected... no errors...

also worth saying is the fact it's intermittent... sometimes 10 games with no problems... Think once machine is up without the error it stays this way but at next boot it might be issues...

suggestions ?

Anybody have a spare grey scaffolding plastic with trans blue window (the larger one) ? Let me know! Thanks

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Not sure how I lucked out, but I think Marco Specialties had a complete NOS playfield plastics kit (even has the original sought after Williams DemoMan key chain plastic) that must have been sitting on a wrong shelf for years. It went in stock and I snagged it. All painted and clear plastics....brand new. Not reproduction.

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