(Topic ID: 77271)

Demolition man optos not working.


By joekiss

5 years ago



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  • 81 posts
  • 17 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by trueno92
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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There are 81 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 5 years ago

Both sets of optos on my Demo man aren't working. Theres one in the underground and one at the top of the PF for the multi-ball/extra ball shot. Both quit working. I have checked all connections, the LED on the opto board is lit, checked all connections in the backbox, every wire, etc. What do I do now??

Also it is saying the magnet is broken in the claw. Are these things connected or is this a separate problem?

#2 5 years ago

Optos - measure power to them, see if they match others. Reflow solder, check for broken wires.

And don't forget they are part of the switch matrix, a broken wire at another switch somewhere else could kill them. Look at the switch matrix in your manual.

LTG : )

#3 5 years ago

How do I measure power?? What should It read?? can you be more specific??

Everything else seems to be working just fine.

#4 5 years ago

You might want to go into switch test mode and, while the matrix is up, go into the backbox and check J116-J119. In the test mode, try putting pressure on these different connectors to see if anything happens and make sure all are plugged in correctly.

Did you just lose power to the optos or did you pick up this game with them not working?

#5 5 years ago
Quoted from joekiss:

How do I measure power?? What should It read?? can you be more specific??

Learn. Get a meter, check out YouTube for videos how to use it. Apply your new knowledge to your game.

Two wires on the back of each opto, set meter to DC, compare reading to other working optos.

LTG : )

#6 5 years ago

Just lost power. Game worked fine. They both went at once. When playing if the ball goes in one after a ffew seconds the machine searches for the ball and they kick out like theyre supposed to.

#7 5 years ago

You might want to keep to one thread also, this has to be what, the 4th or 5th one you've started about this?

#8 5 years ago

No this is a new problem that just started. Sorry if I offended you.

#9 5 years ago

In switch test short the reciever to see whether your switch matrix is ok or not .

#10 5 years ago
Quoted from joekiss:

When playing if the ball goes in one after a ffew seconds the machine searches for the ball and they kick out like theyre supposed to.

This is normal activity as the ball search is activating every solenoid on the pf.

Did you try messing with the connectors I mentioned? You can also check for power right at that connector. Look at the manual (if you don't have it, you can find it on ipdb) and see what the voltage for each wire should be. Get a multimeter and set it to check DCV less than 10v (or higher if those outputs are higher). Put the black lead to ground, then take the red lead to each wire that should have voltage. If all of these give off normal voltage, then go to each individual opto and check for voltage there. If the connector has voltage and the optos do not, then you have a cut in your wire. If the connectors are not giving off the correct voltage, then you've got an issue with the connector (male or female side) or somewhere on the board, where you'll need to track it back on the schematics.

#11 5 years ago

Sorry wasn't trying to be snarky but I see how it sure does come off that way. Not offended, just a bit confused as I looked and this is definitely at least the 3rd thread you've started about your underground opto. I just meant that keeping a single thread going is helpful to everyone, that way hopefully you won't get the same suggestions over and over if you've already tried them.

I'll take a look at mine when I get home and hopefully I can help you out.

1 week later
#12 5 years ago

Checked every connection I can think to check all is good. What do I do now???

-1
#13 5 years ago
Quoted from joekiss:

Checked every connection I can think to check all is good. What do I do now???

You sell it to me!

#14 5 years ago

Sorry but this doesn't sound right...check the opto wiring see if they go into a one of those small independent boards underneath the playfield. It could be an opto board that has a fried chip, a similar thing happened on my shadow but I got a ground row error on the display.

#15 5 years ago

There is a small board under the PF im pretty sure is the opto board. It has an LED light on it which is on. All connections on it are good as well. Im stumped. the optos stopped working then worked for a few months then stopped again.

#16 5 years ago

If more than one set of optos are not registering on the switch test then the board is where I would look to, first take it off and reflow solder and put back in and test the optos see if they come back.

#17 5 years ago

It all looks good.

#18 5 years ago

Looks good or works good?

From Pin Wiki:

3.7.4 Auxiliary 8-Driver Board (A-16100)

An example 8-Driver board

The auxiliary 8-driver board sits in the top right of the backbox in a handful of WPC machines. The connector labeling is tricky as the 8-Driver board is controlled by a ribbon cable that is connected to the "Display" connector on the WPC CPU board (J204). The "Display" label is a historical artifact and refers to the alphanumeric display used in Funhouse.
The board has 8 outputs, driven by TIP-102 transistors with a 2N4403 pre-driver, similar to the WPC power/driver board (which uses a 2N5401 as a pre-driver). It is used in the following games:
Demolition Man
Indiana Jones
Road Show
Star Trek: The Next Generation
Twilight Zone

What Goes Wrong?
This is a pretty simple board. Generally, the problem is going to be a blown transistor, or possibly a failed 74ALS576 latch.
One thing to watch for is that the board ground connection may be hidden under the ribbon cable between the CPU and the power-driver board. The board may partially work if this connection is open, which can be a big time sink. So, check the ground wire if this board seems to be giving trouble.

#19 5 years ago

Sorry it looks good. Optos don't work.

#20 5 years ago

Hey Joe,
I'm a tech noob too,so if I hit a dead end in the beyond your means tech road,I would hire out a Pin wrench to come over and fix it and watch everything he does and ask enough questions just south of getting on his nerves. It will be money well spent I bet. I haven't done it yet but am sure it will happen eventually.

#21 5 years ago

Are the IR LEDs lit? Use a camera or smartphone to check. What does the switch test say? If it's intermittent it's gotta be a connection somewhere or perhaps a bad solder joint.

#22 5 years ago

What are the IR LEDs???

2 months later
#24 5 years ago

Tightened up all connections and it has been working fine. Today none of the optos work at all. None of them. Has to be a bad connection??

#26 5 years ago

I had a similar problem with all of my Twilight Zone optos working intermittently. The problem turned out to be a failed 100 uF capacitor on the under-playfield opto board that had leaked electrolyte and eaten up a trace on the board. I replaced the capacitor, jumped the bad traces, and now I'm firing on all cylinders.

I've attached the drawing of the Demolition Man opto board from the manual. You should use a multimeter set to DC volts and measure the voltage across capacitor C1. I suspect you'll find that the reading is 12 V while the optos are working and 0 while the optos are not working. If you don't have 12 V there, that's your problem.

You should inspect the area under and around capacitor C1. If you see any signs of leaking or corrosion, that's bad! If you wiggle the capacitor and it doesn't feel secure, one of the legs may be corroded.

You could also use a mutlimeter to measure the capacitance of capacitor C1. It should read somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 uF.

demo-man.png

#27 5 years ago

Seems like since it works for awhile then stops its got to be a bad connection?? It couldn't be a bad capacitor could it?? Worked fine for quite some time.

#28 5 years ago

Try going into single switch test mode, then seating and reseating the connector to the opto pair a few times, pressing the connectors together, seeing if the switch opens and closes. Could be a loose pin in the connector that is sometimes connecting and sometimes not.

#29 5 years ago
Quoted from joekiss:

Seems like since it works for awhile then stops its got to be a bad connection?? It couldn't be a bad capacitor could it?? Worked fine for quite some time.

Nope. It definitely could be a bad capacitor / bad trace. That's what it was in my case. Start with a visual inspection of the board around the capacitor. Any signs of leakage or corrosion mean I'm probably right.

You can read of my troubles and eventual solution here: http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/all-twilight-zone-optos-go-out-intermittently

#30 5 years ago

The opto board looks ok. Took it off cleaned it checked all connections. What should I do now?

#31 5 years ago

Switch matrix?

#32 5 years ago
Quoted from joekiss:

The opto board looks ok. Took it off cleaned it checked all connections. What should I do now?

Did you measure the voltage across the capacitor? I suspect you'll find no voltage there when the optos are not working.

#33 5 years ago

How do I measure the capacitor on this board???

#34 5 years ago

I just went through this with my Demo Man. Craziest thing I've seen. My lower popper optos died. I put in new optos and they didn't work. Then I put in a good set of used optos and they didn't work. I swapped in the optos from the upper popper and they worked fine. WTF! After that I soldered a new transmitter and receiver into the original opto boards and they worked. This is just a case of common sense not working.

Go back to square one. Go into switch test mode and jump the optos with a test wire to see if you get a test beep. If you can get a test beep with a jumper you can be sure it's an opto problem. If you can't get a test beep with a jumper then you can work back to board connectors. It's frustrating but the easiest thing to do is test for continuity first in switch test mode with a jumper. After that it's just backtracking.

#35 5 years ago

Part of your circuit is probably not getting power. Measure for 12 V on the opto board. Do you have it?

#36 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinballmike217:

I just went through this with my Demo Man. Craziest thing I've seen. My lower popper optos died. I put in new optos and they didn't work. Then I put in a good set of used optos and they didn't work. I swapped in the optos from the upper popper and they worked fine. WTF! After that I soldered a new transmitter and receiver into the original opto boards and they worked. This is just a case of common sense not working.
Go back to square one. Go into switch test mode and jump the optos with a test wire to see if you get a test beep. If you can get a test beep with a jumper you can be sure it's an opto problem. If you can't get a test beep with a jumper then you can work back to board connectors. It's frustrating but the easiest thing to do is test for continuity first in switch test mode with a jumper. After that it's just backtracking.

When mine quit working NONE of the optos work. theres one for the crane, 1 for the underground, 1 for multi/extra ball and 1 in the ball trough. they all go out together.

#37 5 years ago

Please talk me through testing. Im new to the power /testing part. Where to put the leads, what setting. game on or off etc!!! Pic of my meterP4270252.JPG

#38 5 years ago
Quoted from joekiss:

Please talk me through testing. Im new to the power /testing part. Where to put the leads, what setting. game on or off etc!!!

I already explained that as descriptively as I could in a post above.

#39 5 years ago

Just a quick note: if you put a Rottendog board in Demolition Man; you will have problems. For some reason I always had issues with the optos when using a replacement CPU board.

Other than that, it sounds like you need to have someone come out and look at this rather than attempt to repair yourself. If you don't know how to do basic troubleshooting with a DMM, you're already in way over your head.

#40 5 years ago

Set the meter to 10 v then put the red on it?? Game off or on when I do this?

#41 5 years ago

With the game on, and meter set to read 10 V DC (looks like it's around 7 o'clock on your meter), put the two leads across the big 100 uF capacitor on the opto board.

Try to test this first when the optos are working (may be easier said than done). You should measure 12 V when everything is working.

When the machine is on but the optos are not working, it would be very valuable information to know whether or not 12 V is present on the opto board. In my case, I found that 12 V was missing.

#42 5 years ago

Thanks. Will do later today and post results!

#43 5 years ago

Went to test and the optos work perfectly. This is maddening!!

#44 5 years ago

I tested the capacitor when the optos were working looks like around 12v DC. later the optos all quit working I measured the capacitor again and got 0. If there was a bad connection would it cut all power to the capacitor?

Also the sound quit working. Everything is connected. Did I short something?

#45 5 years ago
Quoted from joekiss:

I tested the capacitor when the optos were working looks like around 12v DC. later the optos all quit working I measured the capacitor again and got 0. If there was a bad connection would it cut all power to the capacitor?

This indicates that your opto board does not have 12 V, which is what I suspected. Next, try measuring the power coming into that board from the power driver board. (Measure DC volts. Red lead on pin J3-1 on the opto board. Black lead on pin J3-3 (ground). Refer to the drawing I included in a previous post.)

I suspect that you'll find that there is 12 V coming to the board even when the voltage measured across the capacitor is 0.

#46 5 years ago

Looks like about 12-14 DC coming in however the capacitor is showing 12 now also.

#47 5 years ago
Quoted from joekiss:

Looks like about 12-14 DC coming in however the capacitor is showing 12 now also.

Are the optos working when the capacitor measures 12 V?

#48 5 years ago

Yes everything is working as of right now.

Any idea on the sound?? When I turn it on it does the ping but then nothing.

#49 5 years ago

OH DAMN!!! it looks like Judge Dredd has the same board??? Can I switch them to rule this part out??

#50 5 years ago

You need to try to measure those two voltages when the optos stop working. I know it's easier said than done. I'm reading up on the Judge Dredd opto board now.

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