(Topic ID: 154216)

Demo Man column 7 activating when standups in column triggered


By redundor

3 years ago



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  • 17 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by redundor
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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There have been 5 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

eeew_(resized).jpg
eyeball_standup.jpg
standup_1.jpg
Screenshot_2016-03-08_16.33.33_(resized).png
20160306_150422.jpg

#1 3 years ago

As the titles says, when I hit either the eyeball standup or standup 1 all of the switches on column 7 activate. If I trigger one of the optos only the expected opto activates. My feeling is that there is an issue with the "7-opto switch board assembly", but I'd like to get some second opinions. Here is what I have tried that makes me think it's that board:

- un-plugged J207 and J205 from the CPU board and used jumpers to check all of the rows and columns. The error didn't show up when doing this so I don't think it's on the board.
- checked the diodes on the standups. They are both on in the right direction from what I can tell with the unbanded side connected to the same tab as the white wires. I also checked the voltages (without disconnecting the diodes) and the both read at around 560 (not sure of the units on my meter).
- un-plugged the trough and 7-opto boards and checked the switches. When I did this the column did not activate. Plugged the trough back in and the column still worked correctly. As soon as I plug the 7-opto board back in the issue comes back.
- when I check the

Could it be on the 7-opto board itself, or could it be one of the optos? The fact that all of the other optos seems to be working properly is confusing me.

Here is a picture of the board itself. With the flash I can what looks like a burnt spot on the underside of the playfield, but I have no idea how long that has been there. I have only had this pin for a couple months and before that who knows what happened to it.

20160306_150422.jpg

#2 3 years ago

Before messing around withe the opto switch board, Carefully check the wiring for each switch in column 7. I doubt u have a bad diode or multiple switches would close when the standup target is closed.
Something is grounding out the wire.

#3 3 years ago

Column 7 starts with the "car chase 1" switch #71. Which is an opto, I think.
Might have to check for power to the opto board and to the optos. Is the LED on, on the opto board?

Screenshot_2016-03-08_16.33.33_(resized).png

#4 3 years ago

Ha. Looks like you blew a resistor on the opto board in your photo. That would make sense. Replace it and all should be well.

#5 3 years ago

The led on the opto board is on, and all of the optos work in text mode.

Is there an easy way to check the resistors? If one of them is bad I would guess it's R21 based on the scorch marks, but I'd rather not guess

#6 3 years ago

Switch 76 works? It's an opto.
Maybe check the eyeball standup wiring. See if it's shorted.
Does the eyeball standup close the stand up 1 switch 78?

Can u take a photo of the 2 standup switches under the pf?
Might be a backward diode.

Should be able to use a multimeter to test a resistor.
Could also try reseating the connectors on the opto board.
Could reflow solder joints on the opto board but that might be getting ahead of ourselves.

#7 3 years ago
Quoted from pincredible:

Switch 76 works? It's an opto.
Maybe check the eyeball standup wiring. See if it's shorted.
Does the eyeball standup close the stand up 1 switch 78?
Can u take a photo of the 2 standup switches under the pf?
Might be a backward diode.
Should be able to use a multimeter to test a resistor.
Could also try reseating the connectors on the opto board.
Could reflow solder joints on the opto board but that might be getting ahead of ourselves.

Switch 76 works, as well as all of the other optos on that column.
As far as I can tell the eyeball standup isn't shorted.
Both of the standups activate each other, but only when the opto board is plugged in. When I close either of the standups the first switch to close is the one I am pressing. A fraction of a second later all of the other switches in the series close starting at the top of the column. See this quick video I took:


See the attached. I checked the diodes and they don't look backwards to me.
I tested resistors R15 thru R21 and they all read at 270+-1 which is what they are rated for, so those don't seems to be the problem (despite the suspicious black spot)
The connectors on the opto board have all been reseated a couple times, so I don't think that will fix the problem.

I did find this post from back in the day:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/switch-column-any-switch-on-column-triggers-all-switches-on-row#post-52596
Makes me think that it could also be the LM339 chips on the opto board.

standup_1.jpg

eyeball_standup.jpg

#8 3 years ago

I'd start by replacing both diodes on the eyeball and standup 1 switch.
Diodes are cheap and easy.

#9 3 years ago

This will give u a chance to clean up the wire ends too. I cut, strip, twist and solder the 18ga wires together then solder to the switch lugs.

#10 3 years ago

If that doesn't work then it's time to at the opto board.

#11 3 years ago

And check wires for more spots like this. Here are 20Vdc and LampRow6 almost merged together, so it could be a damaged wire-insulation in the switchmatrix as well somewhere in the harness.

eeew_(resized).jpg

#12 3 years ago

Is there any switch with a diode that has 2 prongs touching? There's a spot under POA on Indiana Jones that caused a whole host of switch problems for me. Turns out it was hit with a ball and required just bending the switch prongs. Makes it seem like the MPU was gone.

#13 3 years ago

I'll try to take some time tonight to look into those ideas. In the meantime, here is a video if the switch test with the opto board unplugged

#14 3 years ago

I didn't have time to get into it, but I did stop by the local pinball repair shop to pick up some diodes and they offered to throw the opto board in their test rig to make sure that's not the problem, so I'll probably take them up on that this weekend.

#15 3 years ago

Apparently the guy I talked to was wrong about their testing equipment, so I wasn't able to get the opto board tested. I did get some diodes though and replaced them with no changes. I traced to wires and didn't see any major issues. I found some exposed wires that had been damaged in the past by soldering irons. I fixed those as well with some electrical tape, but no changes.

I did notice that the power to the optos on the column seems to flicker when I hold down one of the standups, and it's only the optos that trigger, not the other standup. See this video for what I mean. The other standup I press is the on the same column as the through optos for comparison.

#16 3 years ago

Switches 77 and 78. Stand up 1 and eyeball.
Which switches did you put new diodes on?
In your video you press stand up 5. Different column.
I think the opto board might be just fine, you're getting power to all the optos.

-1
#17 3 years ago
Quoted from pincredible:

Switches 77 and 78. Stand up 1 and eyeball.
Which switches did you put new diodes on?
In your video you press stand up 5. Different column.
I think the opto board might be just fine, you're getting power to all the optos.

I the first half of the video I am holding the contact closed for standup 1 not pressing it repeatedly like the dmd image might make it look. I then go over and press and hold standup 5 closed for comparison, since it also has opto on the column. As you can see in the video, when I press and hold standup 1 the power strobes and the optos constantly open and close. When I press and hold standup 5 everything works as expected.

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