(Topic ID: 229502)

Deeproot, Zidware, and John Popaduik. Assets and Liabilities


By CoinTaker

5 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 56 posts
  • 38 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 months ago by Rarehero
  • Topic is favorited by 12 Pinsiders

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    13
    #1 5 months ago

    With all of the excitement of new and better pinball, which I love and am all for. Seems like Deeproot is using the assets from jpop, but not paying for them. From what I understand SOME of the vendors have been paid. How does this work? Why haven't all of liabilities been addressed?

    I was told my invoices were going to get paid, but nothing. Robert ask for them and received them, 3 times no less.

    Last I spoke with Deeproot I was told "It just wasn't a priority"

    Seems pretty bad way to start a great pinball company.

    Trend setters perhaps. Most new pinball companies end up this way, not start out like this.

    Anyhow, if anyone can help me out or needs help, please let me know. Looking at a couple of options.

    #2 5 months ago

    can't say I'm surprised

    #3 5 months ago

    giphy.gif
    #4 5 months ago

    Deeproot is a different Company who employs Jpop

    why would they pay debts owed by Jpop?

    Maybe some special vendors have said we got burnt so no parts for you unless we get our money otherwise they won't supply parts to them.

    will Pinball Brothers refund you money Heighway Owes?

    #5 5 months ago
    Quoted from Ballypinball:

    Maybe some special vendors have said we got burnt so no parts for you unless we get our money otherwise they won't supply parts to them.

    That's likely the case

    #6 5 months ago
    Quoted from Ballypinball:Deeproot is a different Company who employs Jpop
    why would they pay debts owed by Jpop?

    Because they said they would.

    If you take the assets, Magic Girl, Zombie Adventureland, and Alice that were developed along with Jpop, the guy that made all the promises. Otherwise would we be discussing Deeproot?

    #7 5 months ago

    They can say anything but Legally they don't owe you a dime

    They probably paid Jpop or someone else for the assets Like it or hate it, Jpop owes you not Deeproot, If Stern Hired Him would you be chasing them NO

    I don't agree with all of the crap going on but Deeproot Only owes you whatever they bought from you and haven't paid

    Do what I do No Money No Parts No Matter who it is, No Credit, you can't miss what you don't have.

    #8 5 months ago

    Shocker.

    #9 5 months ago

    I would be trying to get your invoices paid by Jpop. Collection agency maybe? That, or write it off.

    #10 5 months ago

    Gee, didn't see this coming at all. When's the 5 days of deeprooting again?

    #11 5 months ago
    Quoted from CoinTaker:

    I was told my invoices were going to get paid, but nothing. Robert ask for them and received them, 3 times no less.

    Quoted from CoinTaker:

    Because they said they would.

    Quoted from CoinTaker:

    Last I spoke with Deeproot I was told "It just wasn't a priority"

    Just out of curiosity, did they "approve" your invoices specifically and expressly (as to the amount of the debt) or did they just say something along the lines of "let us see them and we will discuss them"? If they approved them expressly was it done in writing or just verbally and who was it who approved the debt (did they have authority to bind deeproot)?

    I hope you get paid what you are owed by whomever owes you the money. Good luck.

    #12 5 months ago

    Good luck (sincerely) with getting paid from deeproot. Maybe they will see fit to make you whole, but I would not hold my breath. When I heard about deeproot, my first reaction was, what was in the cocktails they were serving the investors who thought getting in bed with JPop was such a wonderful pinball friendly idea to bring new money to the table and new machines to market? I mean, it was like topsy turvey land hand just taken over reality and white was black, up was down, and somebody had replaced my downtown brown with some sticky Thai stick from the 70’s, because obviously I was seeing things. Then I sat through the siminar and JPop actually showed up (which I thought was just pure fucking bravado) but what I saw were people who eat, drink, breath, and sleep pinball, because, well that is all they know. Was I excited? Not initially, and not yet, but there is something poking at me like a splinter in the mind, like, if by some strange twist of fate, this is the group who ultimately saves pinball... i don’t know if their collective pasts will add up to a positive or a negative overall for pinball, but from a deficit point of view, they started with their heads under water, and they got a lot of swimming yet to do to keep from drowning.

    #13 5 months ago
    Quoted from CoinTaker:

    Because they said they would.

    If you take the assets, Magic Girl, Zombie Adventureland, and Alice that were developed along with Jpop, the guy that made all the promises. Otherwise would we be discussing Deeproot?

    Feels like they 'said it' to disarm the fury but didn't 'mean it', especially now they have what they needed, and presume pinball people have short memories and will forget as long as there's something shiny.

    #14 5 months ago

    If they told Cointaker they would pay them, then there is no excuse for not, otherwise why say it at all. If they were told invoices will get paid and they have not been, that may not be legal but says a lot about Robert. Seems they paid the people they needed to get parts.
    Deeproot. Jpop is like Ramona Flowers instead of evil X's its invoices and machine buyers you have to deal with and should. Guy has baggage .

    #15 5 months ago

    Get your paperwork in order and lawyer up if they're not responding. It's either pay a lawyer a cut or get nothing at all

    #16 5 months ago

    Have you tried contacting Deeproot directly recently? Seems weird to post this business question here.

    #17 5 months ago

    Sorry to hear this. Cointaker has treated me great.

    #18 5 months ago
    Quoted from CoinTaker:

    Because they said they would.
    If you take the assets, Magic Girl, Zombie Adventureland, and Alice that were developed along with Jpop, the guy that made all the promises. Otherwise would we be discussing Deeproot?

    This makes no sense. Not doubting they didn't say they would, but clearly like they have no legal requirement to do so. JPOP is an employee of a new legal entity...I highly doubt you'll get a dime

    #19 5 months ago
    Quoted from CoinTaker:

    With all of the excitement of new and better pinball, which I love and am all for. Seems like Deeproot is using the assets from jpop, but not paying for them. From what I understand SOME of the vendors have been paid. How does this work? Why haven't all of liabilities been addressed?

    Deeproot owes you nothing, it's Jpop who screwed you.

    Quoted from CoinTaker:

    I was told my invoices were going to get paid, but nothing. Robert ask for them and received them, 3 times no less.

    Last I spoke with Deeproot I was told "It just wasn't a priority"

    Who at Deeproot did you speak to last? You need speak again with Robert as I assume he is the one who said they would compensate you?

    Quoted from CoinTaker:

    Seems pretty bad way to start a great pinball company.

    Trend setters perhaps. Most new pinball companies end up this way, not start out like this.

    Did Deeproot purchase anything directly from you and not pay you? No? Then your statements are not valid.

    Quoted from CoinTaker:

    Anyhow, if anyone can help me out or needs help, please let me know. Looking at a couple of options.

    You have 2 options, go after JPop or get it in writing from Deeproot that you are going to get paid for Zidware invoices.

    #20 5 months ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    Just out of curiosity, did they "approve" your invoices specifically and expressly (as to the amount of the debt) or did they just say something along the lines of "let us see them and we will discuss them"? If they approved them expressly was it done in writing or just verbally and who was it who approved the debt (did they have authority to bind deeproot)?
    I hope you get paid what you are owed by whomever owes you the money. Good luck.

    In terms of advice or meaningful feedback, TigerLaw's seems to be expressed the best. However, really I'm not sure you are helping yourself by airing this here. At a minimum, I feel like this belongs in the huge JPOP thread, as opposed to opening this up in a new topic.

    Regardless, we wish you the best.

    #21 5 months ago
    Quoted from JodyG:

    Have you tried contacting Deeproot directly recently? Seems weird to post this business question here.

    HaHa, Very much YES! For the past year. Spoke on the phone several times. Met in person at TPF this year. Sent the invoices 3 times as requested. Then nothing. Was told its not a priority two months ago. Just sent a email asking to please resolve this. Didn't even get a response. Very disappointing from what I was told when this started. Feels like Zidware 2.0.

    #22 5 months ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    Sorry to hear this. Cointaker has treated me great.

    Both have treated me well too, so far. They're probably burning through a lot of money getting games developed. Maybe they just need some time to get pins shipping in order to start a revenue flow. Maybe once they achieve that, they can help finish cleaning up the JPoP mess?

    #23 5 months ago

    What you are relying on is that JPop fully represented his liabilities to deeproot when they made that statement. I would think, seeing as JPops track record of honesty is, at best, shady, he didn’t come totally clean up front and after seeing your invoices, Robert may have determined how much he misspoke when communicating with you. Either way, JPop is not an asset to deeproot that is worth risking it all on IMO, but there may be those who disagree.

    #24 5 months ago

    I get your frustration, but I'm surprised u think they owe you anything....makes no business sense why anyone at deeproot would even agree to that unless it was in exchange for product or services? they are an entirely new legal entity...sucks, but u have zero claim....the only reason why they would want to clean up past liabilities is if they can get ahold of IP...other than that why would a new company even care?

    #25 5 months ago
    Quoted from CoinTaker:

    Seems pretty bad way to start a great pinball company.

    Yup. They showed their trash hand when they hired Jpop. Everyone in the hobby should stand on principal and vow never to spend a dime on Derp Poop product until Jpop's victims are made whole. No distributor should agree to sell their product.

    #26 5 months ago
    Quoted from PtownPin:

    I get your frustration, but I'm surprised u think they owe you anything....

    Perhaps because they said they would compensate him and he is taking them at their word?

    11
    #27 5 months ago

    I never understood the logic behind hiring John anyway. Tons of horribly negative baggage, and how long has it been since he designed a good game, twenty years? No reason to dredge up "big names" when talented new designers like Scott Danesi, Eric Meunier & Keith Elwin are coming out of the woodwork. Find some hungry young talent. Who's that guy doing the Nightmare Before Christmas game? I'd take him over JPop any day.

    #28 5 months ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    Yup. They showed their trash hand when they hired Jpop. Everyone in the hobby should stand on principal and vow never to spend a dime on Derp Poop product until Jpop's victims are made whole. No distributor should agree to sell their product.

    That's just it isn't it? There is no way they should be able to use any of Jpoops designs. I cannot fathom how they can until everyone is made whole. Jpop owes Cointaker unless Deeproot uses these Zidware designs that screwed several of us.

    Plain and simple Deeproot said they'd pay the invoices. Stand up and stick by your word.

    I'd urge everyone to boycott Deeproot until they make everyone whole as they are using designs paid for by victims of Jpop.

    #29 5 months ago
    Quoted from hank527:

    I'd urge everyone to boycott Deeproot until they ...

    Actually make a game, or don't look like a horrible company, not embarrass themselves in print/person, actually...do...anything?

    Whom the fuck wasn't boycotting them before this?

    #30 5 months ago

    I kind of think it is misplaced nostalgia for the WMS days of the 90's. That they can get costs back to the margins they worked with back then, where they all made a living wage and they lived on the reputation of the Bally/Williams name. So even their name implies how deep rooted they are in the past and how their past triumphs should equate to future ones using the same business model of yore. Hell I just think they are all broke looking for a steady paycheck, and you can't blame them for trying, but are they really the future of pinball or ghosts of it's past?

    #31 5 months ago

    Not a priority=we don't have the money we've conned everyone into thinking we have.

    #32 5 months ago

    Yeah, but did you how the community got back at Jpop when he showed his hair (?) at expo?
    Boy, he won't soon forget that...
    Yep, showed him.

    #33 5 months ago

    Is this for the RAZA cointaker edition games? Or something else?

    #34 5 months ago
    Quoted from JodyG:

    Not a priority=we don't have the money we've conned everyone into thinking we have.

    They have the $$$

    It’s public record in the SEC filing

    Only thing I can imagine is they figured they could fix and roll out MG, Raza and Alice quickly so people would forget eventually

    DR says they are making us whole with pin credits. They didn’t have to do that

    Maybe they can at least do the same thing for Cointaker

    #35 5 months ago
    Quoted from CoinTaker:

    Feels like Zidware 2.0.

    Hey John, Zidware seems like a great company but we are going to need to be paid for this product BEFORE it ships, ok? As a business owner, you had that option. A couple other Zidware vendors did it this way, they are owed ZERO.

    But it's Deeproot's responsibility?

    #36 5 months ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    Yup. They showed their trash hand when they hired Jpop. Everyone in the hobby should stand on principal and vow never to spend a dime on Derp Poop product until Jpop's victims are made whole. No distributor should agree to sell their product.

    People just don’t do that. “The right thing to do” never trumps “I want my stuff.” Never. Cointaker is run by top of the line people, and I hope they get what they are owed.

    #37 5 months ago
    Quoted from hank527:

    That's just it isn't it? There is no way they should be able to use any of Jpoops designs. I cannot fathom how they can until everyone is made whole. Jpop owes Cointaker unless Deeproot uses these Zidware designs that screwed several of us.
    Plain and simple Deeproot said they'd pay the invoices. Stand up and stick by your word.
    I'd urge everyone to boycott Deeproot until they make everyone whole as they are using designs paid for by victims of Jpop.

    Yep. They haven’t produced jack shit. Yet I will point out AP has delivered now -2- games that are rolling off the assembly lines. And they were the ones who last got tagged by the JPop shit show. They took action and made it work. Show me, don’t tell me.

    #38 5 months ago

    Honestly, I just wonder if they were paying John for the patents he has filed and been granted. He might have an eye for art, but that can’t possibly be the only reason they’d partner with him.

    #39 5 months ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    Yup. They showed their trash hand when they hired Jpop. Everyone in the hobby should stand on principal and vow never to spend a dime on Derp Poop product until Jpop's victims are made whole. No distributor should agree to sell their product.

    Also no parts vendor should supply them parts until all past debts are made whole to creditors.

    #40 5 months ago

    Isn’t deeproot just a patent troll outfit? Isn’t that what this is about? I must be missing something..

    #41 5 months ago

    Deeproot historically remains a investment and acquisition broker, both of equities, properties, and companies, not patent troll exclusivity and much more diverse in their interests. They are not known for returning what they take (especially after acquisition completion), by whatever means necessary, based on goals, sometimes subversively, which included liquidation of assets of other properties for profit, despite certain moral indescrimencies. This is based on my own observations when I lived in San Antonio, long before their involvement in pinball.

    Best of fortune on endeavors, and retain a good claim and trademark attorney, because Deeproot already is already well prepared in this area to constitute any requirement for reimbursement of funding.

    #42 5 months ago

    wont buy a deeproot anything because of dealing with Jpop (POS)

    #43 5 months ago
    Quoted from Ballypinball:

    They can say anything but Legally they don't owe you a dime
    They probably paid Jpop or someone else for the assets Like it or hate it, Jpop owes you not Deeproot, If Stern Hired Him would you be chasing them NO
    I don't agree with all of the crap going on but Deeproot Only owes you whatever they bought from you and haven't paid
    Do what I do No Money No Parts No Matter who it is, No Credit, you can't miss what you don't have.

    You were in the room to know what kind of agreement they could have signed? Perhaps a debt transfer?
    Even I highly doubt of it, and then you might have right, it is a bit presumptuous to be 100% affirmative

    #44 5 months ago
    Quoted from colonel_caverne:

    You were in the room to know what kind of agreement they could have signed? Perhaps a debt transfer?
    Even I highly doubt of it, and then you might have right, it is a bit presumptuous to be 100% affirmative

    I can 100% state they didn't sign anything or offer a debt Transfer

    #45 5 months ago
    Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

    People just don’t do that. “The right thing to do” never trumps “I want my stuff.” Never. Cointaker is run by top of the line people, and I hope they get what they are owed.

    I always try to do the right thing. Maybe I’m in the minority.

    I’m not in the “l want something for free” crowd. There’s always a cost associated with everything. Just cuz it’s free doesn’t mean it’s a deal.

    #46 5 months ago
    Quoted from vdojaq:

    Hey John, Zidware seems like a great company but we are going to need to be paid for this product BEFORE it ships, ok? As a business owner, you had that option. A couple other Zidware vendors did it this way, they are owed ZERO.

    But it's Deeproot's responsibility?

    apparently let their guard down with andrew, as well.
    for as much as pinsiders like to excuse, forgive, and forget, when it comes to real dollars in actual business, that doesnt work out very well.

    1 week later
    #47 4 months ago
    Quoted from greenhornet:

    apparently let their guard down with andrew, as well.
    for as much as pinsiders like to excuse, forgive, and forget, when it comes to real dollars in actual business, that doesnt work out very well.

    I'm curious if Cointaker was contacted by Deeproot recently.

    #48 4 months ago

    Doubtful it’s not looking like deeproot is off to a good start at all. Anything with Jpop behind it I put very little faith in; he’s a tool bag and a crook

    1 month later
    #49 3 months ago
    Quoted from musketd:

    Doubtful it’s not looking like deeproot is off to a good start at all. Anything with Jpop behind it I put very little faith in; he’s a tool bag and a crook

    Yep!

    #50 3 months ago

    I'm not so concerned they hired jpoop per se, although that is a head scratcher. The hyperbole and arrogance was my first warning signs that DR didn't know what they were getting into in general, then saying they were going to debut 5 games, at once, in a year. Ya... And here we are. But, they didn't take pre orders, so whatever. Hope the pull it together, competition is good!

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