(Topic ID: 144331)

Deepest Game for the Cheapest Price


By agodfrey

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 128 posts
  • 79 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by schudel5
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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There are 128 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 3.
#101 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I am amazed at what people now seem to consider 'deep'.
Back a few years ago someone made a great map and we all had a fun conversation on the different 'types' of games. What many are suggesting in this thread as deep are nowhere near the deep end of the spectrum from just a few years ago...
has pinside jumped the shark?

I don't about you (or the others) but deep has little to do with level of difficulty. IM is freaking difficult.....and very shallow (and I love it).
LOTR and TSPP are super deep but not overly brutal games to play if you're not specifically trying to reach the final mode. I've had 2 hour games on LOTR and never got to Valinor.

WPT has to be the deepest pin for the price. It's damn close to LOTR and TSPP with the sheer number of modes to get through to get to the end. I've put up some big scores on WPT (over 200 million) but never even sniffed the Kieffer Invitational.

#102 3 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

A p-roc guy is working on a new set of rules, so, maybe he can fix it.

You know it's funny, I've been lurking in this thread because I am trying to decide which game to P-ROC after my Pinbot 2.0 project concludes. Here's the thing, though. I am trying to find a great layout with lots of awesome shots where the rules/modes were actually kind of "meh."

Dan

#103 3 years ago
Quoted from Curbfeeler:

You know it's funny, I've been lurking in this thread because I am trying to decide which game to P-ROC after my Pinbot 2.0 project concludes. Here's the thing, though. I am trying to find a great layout with lots of awesome shots where the rules/modes were actually kind of "meh."
Dan

The IJ P-Roc guy is as I understand it porting the Williams IJ ruleset over to his Stern IJ! A very cool sounding project, no idea how he's going to pull it off but will be fun to follow along.

#104 3 years ago
Quoted from Curbfeeler:

I am trying to find a great layout with lots of awesome shots where the rules/modes were actually kind of "meh."

Street Fighter II.

#105 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I am amazed at what people now seem to consider 'deep'.
Back a few years ago someone made a great map and we all had a fun conversation on the different 'types' of games. What many are suggesting in this thread as deep are nowhere near the deep end of the spectrum from just a few years ago...
has pinside jumped the shark?

Do you mean this --> https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/what-is-considered-a-deep-game/page/3#post-237135

Or is there another chart somewhere?

#106 3 years ago

Hopefully there's another one with more spots for WH20 to fit in

#107 3 years ago

I've thought about that one for a re-code. What if you pulled the lower playfield car bash toy, and put a display under that window instead? Could be interesting.

#108 3 years ago

similar but must be a different one as the one I remember actually had SG on it.

#109 3 years ago

Gotta agree... WPT has the most bang for your buck.

#110 3 years ago

Judge Dredd. It is terribly under rated. Very entertaining game and $3,400 on eBay. You can probably find one for under 3k.

#111 3 years ago
Quoted from agodfrey:

Agree 100%. Popeye is one of my keeper games

Nice to see this game getting some proper love. Unfairly bashed for far too long. Not the greatest game ever, but a lot of fun.

#113 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

IJ4 is a terrible game and it's certainly not deep at all by modern standards. Has no business on a "cheapest/deepest" thread.

IJ4 is actually very deep as far as progression goes. It is near impossible imho to get to the end on stock rules and settings. I know of nobody that has.

Another vote for WPT though. That's a game I would see on route back in the day and pass right by it, didn't interest me.

I sought one out because I read a lot of good things about it, and it was pretty much instant love upon playing it, it's going nowhere. Very deep, very challenging. Long shots, hard shots, a fantastic upper playfield. Hard game. Long ball times though.

#114 3 years ago

I've thought about that one but don't really like the art package or the theme. P-ROC takes a long time, so it has to be a theme you like pretty well. Maybe as a re-theme, but no as-is for me. Thanks anyway.

Dan

#115 3 years ago

Whole lot of love out there.

Quoted from RDReynolds:

Nice to see this game getting some proper love. Unfairly bashed for far too long. Not the greatest game ever, but a lot of fun.

#116 3 years ago

Have to agree on popeye. I know people (decent players) who had the game for years and never knew it had a 6 ball wizard mode. It's hard!

#117 3 years ago
Quoted from Davidus56:

Judge Dredd. It is terribly under rated. Very entertaining game and $3,400 on eBay. You can probably find one for under 3k.

You can definitely find one for under $3k, should cost you less than a comparable condition WPT. It doesn't have the "Keith-level depth" people are discussing here but it's got plenty going on and is a heck of a lot of fun. The art package is also 10x better than the poker Photoshop job on WPT if that sort of thing matters to you.

#118 3 years ago

JD is all that you say BUT it can be a mechanical nightmare.

#119 3 years ago
Quoted from henhel:

JD is all that you say BUT it can be a mechanical nightmare.

How? The only thing that can really cause issues are the deadworld and crane. Both are decently simple mechs.

#120 3 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

How? The only thing that can really cause issues is the deadworld and crane. Both are decently simple mechs.

Optos

#121 3 years ago

Ah, true I suppose...but all games of that era used optos extensively (and those aren't mechanical).

#122 3 years ago

Getting back to the topic, Maverick is in the top echelon in the cheap/deep machines. We had this title in our meager three machine line up for two years ~ & had a ball w/ it. We only paid $1500 for it, & an can be acquired for around the same price. This machine has a lot going on including ~ excellent dot matrix graphics, phenomenal sound effects, 17? drop targets, +plus+ a deep rule set. Good luck getting to the World Poker Championship, it'll take a while. We absolutely had a major return for what was paid < & some. The beer always tastes better when it's free > or so it seems.

#123 3 years ago

Yeah I have always been curious about this game.

#124 3 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

Ah, true I suppose...but all games of that era used optos extensively (and those aren't mechanical).

I think he was referring to how the crane magnet, which is mechanical and relies on optos, is finicky.

#125 3 years ago
Quoted from Ockeyhead:

Getting back to the topic, Maverick is in the top echelon in the cheap/deep machines. We had this title in our meager three machine line up for two years ~ & had a ball w/ it. We only paid $1500 for it, & an can be acquired for around the same price. This machine has a lot going on including ~ excellent dot matrix graphics, phenomenal sound effects, 17? drop targets, +plus+ a deep rule set. .

Maverick is fun and the drop targets are used in a unique way and actually really make the game strong. Instead of just knocking a drop down at any time, each set of drop targets respresents a poker hand and there is usually one hand you are trying to achieve wihile avoiding actually hitting other drops at the wrong time. I've never seen the movie but enjoy the humor, sound bites and the game overall a lot. And it "competes" for my attention versus WOZ, MM, and Stern SM and isn't neglected.
WPT has more flow and is a faster more intense game but pricier. Maverick gets criticised some becase of one shot to the paddlewheel that slows the game down. Personally that doesn't bother me at all, but for super flow fans I can understand that it does. The DMD is very large and used well. Can be quite pricey to find a replacement one if needed but still to get a Maverick and a brand new DMD would be less than WPT and some other games named. WPT of course is probably deeper than Maverick is my guess and does have a very nice Steve Ritchie playfield. To me it's one of the few Sterns that people didn't like at first that now gets some love but still can be found at quite reaosonable prices.
I like this thread and found some games listed that I hadn't realized were deep and might consider at some future time.

#126 3 years ago

Deepest game is going to be coded by Keith Johnson. Obviously WoZ and Hobbit are not going to be the cheapest. So this leaves LOTR, WPT, TSPP, Elvis, FG, WoF, IJ4, CSI, etc.

My order of code:price ratio from highest to lowest:

WPT
TSPP
LOTR
FG
Elvis
CSI
IJ4
WoF

#127 3 years ago
Quoted from schudel5:

Deepest game is going to be coded by Keith Johnson. Obviously WoZ and Hobbit are not going to be the cheapest. So this leaves LOTR, WPT, TSPP, Elvis, FG, WoF, IJ4, CSI, etc.
My order of code:price ratio from highest to lowest:
WPT
TSPP
LOTR
FG
Elvis
CSI
IJ4
WoF

Those aren't all Keith's games...he may have at least helped on all those, but he wasn't primary on all. IJ4 and FGY for example he just helped out. For FGY he designed and implemented the wizard mode and qualifiers I believe. That's it. IJ4 was a conglomeration of coders. Again, he just cleaned some stuff up. Neither of those games have too much breadth. Are Elvis and CSI Keith's? Either way, neither are that deep. He did do HRC, which is average depth.

#128 3 years ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

Those aren't all Keith's games...he may have at least helped on all those, but he wasn't primary on all. IJ4 and FGY for example he just helped out. For FGY he designed and implemented the wizard mode and qualifiers I believe. That's it. IJ4 was a conglomeration of coders. Again, he just cleaned some stuff up. Neither of those games have too much breadth. Are Elvis and CSI Keith's? Either way, neither are that deep. He did do HRC, which is average depth.

Primary or not he had some help and others helped him. There aren't any that he did all on his own. You have to admit Keith does a pretty deep ruleset. Lyman does too, but they're not as 'complicated' as some of Keith's. I guess you could argue who has the better code Keith or Lyman. I'd say Lyman.

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