Do you have the correct belt installed?

At power up, does the reel reset to provide a receptacle hole at the end of the wireform?

If you pull the glass, and enable locks, then roll a ball into the Casters Club, does it load the first reel position, advance one position, and stop with a receptacle hole at the end of the wireform?

You mentioned the game was mistaking groups of switches....how so and how was it corrected?

my buddy had the same problem and we found that one of the optos was bad on the reel wheel and also wasn't lined up after opto was replaced we loosen the opto bracket and just move a little one way or the other way we fooled with lining up the optos and that's what fixed his good luck

here is our old post it was pinbum pin

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/tech-help-on-fish-tales

These are good questions, also my FT had issues with the reel it turned out to be an incorrect belt. The belt needs to be a clear one, on mine they had installed an actual O-ring from the PF. Lastly, the optos are critical to have the reel lining up. I would take them out reflow solder on them and then test them with a cell phone camera to make sure they were working.

Can we run a switch test and confirm that the optos are working?

Try this, it's from http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=294492589&start=10

After about 4 or 5 weeks of messing about I finally fixed my wonky
Fish Tales reel .
The symptoms were basically that the reel would over shoot it's
stopping point by about 1.5cm .
This caused all sorts of problems . Balls not entering or leaving the
reel and the multiball feature
starting with only 2 balls in the reel (The first ball would leave the
reel after the second had entered) .

Anyway , I posted the problem a while ago and spent a lot of time ,
and some cash and (as usual) . Tipically the fault
turned out to be something stupid . So what was the fault I hear you
say ???

1) The lower or top pulley ? Nope .
2) Surely a slipping or knackered belt ? Nope .
3) Faulty opto then ? Nope .
4) Motor or gearbox knackered then ? Nope .

Here we go . The moment of truth . A bad J1 or J2 connection on the
motor EMI filter board !

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Isn't there a set screw securing the pulley to the motor shaft? Maybe slipping?

Here's what I've done so far:

Swapped out MPU
Swapped out power board
Swapped out motor control board from a working Fishtales
Replaced transistor on motor control board
Replaced diode on motor control board
Swapped out Opto board from a working Fishtales
Replaced all four optos related to board
Swapped optos to correct position, unless manual is wrong and opto 1 should be closer to the apron than 2. (thanks whoever had this last, it took me eons to figure this out)
Replaced reel with one from our spare parts bin
Replaced belt
Unplugged sound display and flipper boards from mpu, tested it like that.

Really the only thing I haven't replaced is the motor. I just don't have a spare one lying around. But I am really doubting that it's the motor, because the optos are working fine in both switch and reel tests. It's not like it's stopping in random wrong places - it's stopping at the wrong place every time. It's one position off from where it should be. This is the reel logic as far as I can figure out:

The reel has a bunch of "short" blockers, and one "long" one. Only the long one can interrupt both optos at once by itself.

Read Opto 1. Every time opto one transitions from open to closed, games thinks reel moves one position.

Read Opto 2. Ignore opto 2 unless opto 1 is closed. If opto 1 and 2 are closed at the same time, position is "home".

The reel tries to get to home position at the start of the reel test. The problem is that while the optos are registering properly, it doesn't seem to think home is when both optos are obscured. Instead, it waits until the next time both optos are obscured. This is when one opto is blocked by the "long" blocker and one by the "short" blocker next in line, and then considers that home. So instead of hole 1 being at the top, it's hole 1 + 1 step, or hole 1.5.

The only thing I can think would do this is if the reel were on backwards. But that's physically impossible. The other option is that the motor is running the wrong direction, and the optos weren't switched. But when I swap opto 1 and 2 and run the motor backwards, it just gets confused.

The only other possibility I can think of is that the reel is for the wrong game, somehow. But I don't think any other game used that kind of reel.

Although I swapped out the board, I didn't think to check continuity on the plugs. Maybe it's a bad plug? Wish I had the machine at the shop so I could work on it there.

Hmmm, you've got me...the majority of these reel issues are either the optos or the opto board, mainly the LM339 on the board. I would remove the reel optos (while leaving them connected) and trigger them outside of the reel to make sure they're doing what they're supposed to do. I see that you know the theory of operation. I think some how the optos are wired incorrectly or opto 1's wiring is some how swapped with #2 or something. I think you've done everything component wise already, it has to be wiring.

Time to start over. Clear the air. Deep breath. Shot of Schnapps.

Go to the reel test in the manual. Run the test compared to what you're seeing the optos actually do.
Run it several times and watch the transitions of the optos. With the test paused, you can manually block the optos to see if the right one echoes back on the display.

Turn game off/on. Let the reel try to home. Go into Switch Levels and see if the correct optos are showing home position...see reel test page.

One last thing. Those optos are channel interrupters aren't they? Maybe the reel tabs aren't running deep enough into those channels to transition them reliably.

Oh, look! A straw! I'm grabbing it.

Hehe. I looked at a field fishtales today. Apparently, the manual is_ wrong. So the optos should be swapped again. They were right in the first place. One interesting thing I noticed is that one opto always reads as closed. I forget which one - I have the pictures on my phone. I'm gonna bring the rottendog power board again next time...I want to have a %100 certainty that the power going out is right.

Also the manual I have been looking at doesn't really cover the reel test. What page are you looking at? We've got 3 different versions, I think.

The reel test isn't in my manual either. IIRC, at the end of the solenoid tests is a reel test that has the switches depicted and how the respond while the reel is turning.

I may be mis-remembering.

Oh, there's a reel test at the end of the test menu. But yeah, it just shows it thinking the reel is one step off of where it is.

Make sure the reel optos are in the correct spots. Its possible to mount the optos to wrong mounting tab (they can be reversed). Saw this once before.

Can someone with a Fish Tales give us a hand here?

Access the reel test and get a short video of it from before starting and then running for 20 or 30 seconds?

GPS: Compare yours to the video of the working game...and post a video of yours so we all can see what is going on.

Let's get this ornery bastige fixed!

please let us know whom was the seller.

Sorry you are having troubles.

I had similar issues and mine all ended up being the belt. I know you said you replaced the belt, but I would want to make sure you used the exact correct belt. It is not a standard size and even though it may seem like it, you can't just use a standard runner that appears to be the same size.

you need this one
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/03-8614

Not true. I have a standard white rubber ring on my game now going on..ohhh...9 years. Never had one issue with the reel using a standard rubber ring. Works fine. Not saying this isn't his problem, just that a standard white ring does work...

(BTW, I'm not the seller of the FT nor do I know who he/she was.)

interesting. I originally had a white rubber that was the exact same size as the required belt and it would 'slip' ever so slightly and the result was a reel being just a smidge (RCH) out of whack.

New/correct belt and works perfect everytime.

I may have gone down a size. 4" --> 3-1/2" or whatever it is.

To the OP: My first inclination is to sort out the optos or interrupters on the reel. In switch edge test see when the open/close and determine where the reel openings are.

yeah, these symptom point to opto intermittent issue.

Not to derail into a belt argument, but my experiences with FT and Hurricane (granted a heavier assembly to run) are that rubber rings do not work well at all. They might function on some level, but when they stretch it's over. Slip city.

IME!

Hurricane uses a longer belt than a standard ring and wouldn't work in that situation. I agree there.

My FT original factory belt was stretched and slippery and wouldn't turn the reel with more than one ball locked. Like I said I replaced mine with a standard white ring and it's been perfect now 9 years. Just a few more years and it will have outlasted the life of the original belt (which I mentioned was stretched and slippery).

Maybe it's the ring manufacturer? Those old ABC rings had a "grippy" surface. Personally I would use a ring only until the belt arrived from Pinball Resource. Obviously your experiences are different. Good on ya!

The more I stew on this, this more I'm thinking it's going to be a plug/connector issue. Because I swear I stuck the rottendog board in the first time, and it worked fine. Then I unplugged it to put a swap board in, and I've yet to see it working since. I even got GPS and was like "Look, I fixed it!". And then of course it failed to work. I think it's just having its revenge for me figuring out the booting problem so quick. I've had those little boards that draw the 5 volts from the 12 screw up booting in 2 fishtales before. So I found that one right away. But I can't blame it or point to it as relating to the problem, because the previous fishtales had no reel issues.

Edit: I of course stuck the rottendog board in again after that, but I had no luck.

Hi Lisa,

I was working with GPS on this from the start. Early on one of the several times we were in switch test mode, he had OPTO 2 go off on it's own. I suggested to have the machine in switch test mode and wiggle and press the reel opto wires on the IDC plugs, at the opto board and upward on the chain to the MPU board. A poor connection at an IDC cable can be very elusive.

With everything that has been done thus far, it really must be a physical issue/connection with the reel, as the machine seems to think the reel is fine and where it is suppose to be.

Also, he was having random sling shot activation during game play, was that issue resolved, and if so, what was the cause?

Thank you Lisa for everything you have done for him on this issue, I cant imagine him having a better person on the case!

Opto 2 is flaking out. It shouldn't be transitioning off/on like that. It should be toggling like the other 2.

Random slingshot firing is usually a bad LM339 on the opto board. In any case like I said above something does not add up if all the components were swapped with known working ones, this may very well end up being the usual opto board problem.

Yes, the opto board was swapped by Lisa and I tested the original in my machine, ran fine. That is why I am curious to know if the slings firing randomly issue has been resolved, as it did not seem the problems in this case, were related.

Ah, you must be the guy he sent the opto and mpu boards to. The test he filmed isn't going to be hugely accurate, as the optos aren't in the right place. I'll swap 'em so they're correct on Saturday, and then look at the connectors. Hey GPS, did I leave the other opto board with you? I can't find it, but I have so much pinball junk in my car it's possible it's just buried. Not a big deal, just need one back eventually.

Also, why does random slingshot firing relate to a bad LM339 on the opto board? The slingshots are white/violet and white/grey, but there's no connection to green/yellow on the opto board. Does it just, like, take a long time for the signal to get through, so the mpu has moved on to strobing green/yellow?

Oh, duh, never mind. Need coffee. The LM339 is just randomly letting VCC through when it shouldn't, thus setting off whatever switch matches the column that's currently strobing. This makes me wonder even more about the opto boards or connections, because I remember being puzzled as to why, when we disconnected green/orange from the slingshot switch, we were randomly getting the two rows back as grounded. I'm betting one of the comparison lines is too low, due to a bad connection. Whee, making progress!

Just resolved this issue on a FT restore.

LM339 was faulty on the opto board install a socket and a new LM339

Reflow the pins on the opto board while your there.

Opto transmitters can also fail and still look ok through a digital camera with an infrared reader you may detect a dimming of a faulty one. Optos don't cost much so replace both transmitting optos they have many years on them anyway.

Don't forget to test the receivers as well with proper voltages using your DMM

Oh, I replaced both sides of both optos. The manual having the optos in the incorrect order is what threw me off. I'll bring some chips and a socket, but I really suspect it's in the connector. The opto board's been replaced and tested in another machine. I think we're just not getting happy voltages all the time, so while the board is functioning properly, the end result is that it feeds back erroneous data. We can so nail this this weekend.

If you ever get jammed up again, Gary at the Pinball Shoppe in North Olmstead has always been very helpful.

Great but if you're going to use Reagan as an avatar at least use one from Knute Rockne-All American.

A lot of the issues in any type of electronics can relate to bad grounding occurring. I always check to assure that the ground side of the circuits are clean. Especially when it seems that you take something out and test it outside of the machine and works as expected.

Have you tried going into switch test and hitting all the switches and make sure you are not getting a phantom switch (two switches show on the test when only one was hit)? It could be a bad diode on one of the switches or a switch wired wrong. I would at least rule it out.