(Topic ID: 104026)

Decal printing

By tezting

9 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 22 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 years ago by BJM-Maxx
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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Billede 26-09-14 17.34.45.jpg
circles.pdf (PDF preview)
decals.pdf (PDF preview)
#1 9 years ago

Hi,
I have just printed my first clear laser decals.
They are very simple, it is just black circles for the insert-lights.

But I am a little disappointed, it looks like the black is not 100% black but that there a very little white dots in the black.
I am printing with 1200dpi and no toner saving.
Is this normal or could I do anything wrong?

#2 9 years ago

Not sure if this would help, since it's specifically Adobe. I do think you can change the palette, so it might be possible to switch to the CMYK ones. I think I have seen that on most Microsoft products anyway. Worth a shot anyway.

https://graphicfusiondesign.com/design/how-to-get-true-cmyk-black-in-printing/

#3 9 years ago

When you print it on paper what do you see?

What program are you using and what is your image type?

I would consider inkscape for circles. Then you have a vector art instead of raster, but again post your process for printing and others should be able to help you.

Dan

#4 9 years ago

As the two above said, post up some more details to what you are using, and specifics. Do they need to be printed that hi dpi? I forgot what Vid said in his how to.

#5 9 years ago
Quoted from Curbfeeler:

When you print it on paper what do you see?

What program are you using and what is your image type?

I would consider inkscape for circles. Then you have a vector art instead of raster, but again post your process for printing and others should be able to help you.

Dan

I have the file in many formats including PDF:
I am printing directly from Adobe Reader.

I really dont think that the pdf/image is the problem. But if you say it is not normal I think it might be the printer or the material.

When I print on normal white paper I see the same problem.
The black is not "solid-black".

Also, are they very_ vulnerable? When I try to remove bubbles/water they very easy break for me. (I am testing on Plexiglas)

#6 9 years ago

I can't hit dropbox from here, but I would eliminate PDF and Adobe Reader from the equation. I would install Inkscape and create the circle as a vector object. Just specify the exact size of the circle using outside diameter and choose thickness as "stroke" of you object. The work should go quickly. Then test print to white paper and see what you think.

As far as the decals themselves, just make sure you're using laser decal paper and a laser printer. Should be very black and look perfect.

Dan

#7 9 years ago
Quoted from Curbfeeler:

I can't hit dropbox from here, but I would eliminate PDF and Adobe Reader from the equation. I would install Inkscape and create the circle as a vector object. Just specify the exact size of the circle using outside diameter and choose thickness as "stroke" of you object. The work should go quickly. Then test print to white paper and see what you think.

As far as the decals themselves, just make sure you're using laser decal paper and a laser printer. Should be very black and look perfect.

Dan

Thank you Dan for the reply.
I have attached the PDF here. (Did not know I could do that in here)
I did not have any designer skills so I asked a friend to create the circles 100% same dimensions as the ones I scanned on the playfield (that was not broken but similar).
He did them in Photoshop.
I also have them in .eps.
When you look at the pdf. You still think that it is the problem and not the printer/paper?
I have bought paper that said "for laser only" and I am using a laser printer. So Hope they both don't lie
(I am downloading Inkskape now)
decals.pdfdecals.pdf

#8 9 years ago

EPS or TIFF are best for printing. Stay away from PDF.

#9 9 years ago

Just from my own experience, I found that for shapes and text, vector based artwork is the best. Illustrator (vector based) is what I've used. Photoshop is raster based, text and shapes do not come out as crisp. You can then export it to a pdf and still retain all of the quality. Also as mentioned, make sure you have a true (4 color IIRC) black.

I know this is obvious, make sure you have an excellent quality printer. I have one of those $150 laser printers at home. It prints pretty well on regular paper, but is no where near as good as one of those big monsters that a professional graphics company would use. I went to Staples and got my decals printed there. They came out great.

As far as the handling them yes they are fragile. To help with placement, you need wet the area where you are going to apply the decal with micro sol:
http://www.amazon.com/Microscale-Industries-BMF128-Setting-Solution/dp/B0006O9K5Q

Use a wet paper towel to flatten the decal, work from the center outward. Check out Vid's PF restore post. He has a detailed description of the application.

#10 9 years ago

Ahh, that file is indeed the issue. When I printed raster graphic recently it was TIFF and they turned out great. Vector is better, if possible. Good luck!

Dan

#11 9 years ago

The main reason I got pdf is that I was not sure how to print in 1x1 else. I was also afraid that it would be stretched.

So should I delete the pdf/eps I have and try to see If I can create them in Inkskape with (4 color IIRC) black.
Or could I still use the one I have by converting it to something else that works?

#12 9 years ago

There's absolutely nothing wrong with printing from a PDF.

Your problem is the circles in the file aren't true black. They're 91% black (with a small touch of green). So your printer is trying to duplicate a very dark grey by not printing fulling black, the white dots are the shading.

It's easy to see if you look at the embedded Pinside preview, which puts black behind any transparent parts of the PDF. You can see the grey circles floating over the black.

#13 9 years ago
Quoted from spaceport:

As far as the handling them yes they are fragile. To help with placement, you need wet the area where you are going to apply the decal with micro sol:
amazon.com link »

Thank you, I have now ordered that product.

Quoted from Aurich:

There's absolutely nothing wrong with printing from a PDF.

Your problem is the circles in the file aren't true black. They're 91% black (with a small touch of green). So your printer is trying to duplicate a very dark grey by not printing fulling black, the white dots are the shading.

It's easy to see if you look at the embedded Pinside preview, which puts black behind any transparent parts of the PDF. You can see the grey circles floating over the black.

I will ask if the designer can make another pdf with 100% black.
It's nice to learn something new all the time in the Pinball Universe. Also when it is stuff that is not only pinball related.

#14 9 years ago

Sounds like you are already on track! The printer prints what it is told, if you print twice and the "flaws" are in the same place, it is the file that needs attention.

Also PDF is for packaging files, if you make an illustrator file in PDF, It makes it readable by any computer and can still retain its functionality/edit ability for someone with Adobe's suite. Printing PDF is no problem.

Best of luck!

#15 9 years ago
Quoted from tezting:

I will ask if the designer can make another pdf with 100% black.

Here, I did it for you:

circles.pdfcircles.pdf

#16 9 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Here, I did it for you:

Wow, Thank you so much Aurich!
I will try and print it tomorrow at work and let you know how it went.

#17 9 years ago

I have now added my first decal. (It still has the SOL on it and is drying)
Is it correct that it is not as black as "normal" circles around inserts? Also I think there is a light coming through the black, is that normal? Should I paint over the circle to make it less transparent?
Billede 26-09-14 17.34.45.jpgBillede 26-09-14 17.34.45.jpg

#18 9 years ago

That's common as ink from a printer is never as opaque as the silk screened stuff. A lot of people double up on printed inserts. It helps a lot

#19 9 years ago

Yeah, you can layer the decals. Are you going to clear coat over them when you're done?

#20 9 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Yeah, you can layer the decals. Are you going to clear coat over them when you're done?

Yes I will clear everything.
Are there any special practice when I do layers? Or is it the same as when putting the first on?

#21 9 years ago

The quality of your PDF print depends on the original format and obviously the printer. If it was originally done in photoshop, then it possibly was not vector-based and will have aliasing, which can sometimes cause these little dots. It also could be the original settings of the PDF exportation, one or more printer settings, or something with the way your particular printer processes different file types.

PDF is the way to go about 100% of the time as it preserves fonts, vector art and non-aliased printing. TIFF and EPS aren't really used anymore in the field (at least I haven't for over 6 years). 1/2 of my job is graphic design, and 1/2 of that design is print-based, so I'm running into this sort of stuff all the time. You'd be surprised how different printers will handle different formats and how even driver types will affect it (PCL5/6, UFR II, PS). And generally anything printed needs to be created in CMYK format using the CMYK color palate/swatches to preserve proper color processing. RGB conversion usually doesn't pan out well.

You can try importing the PDF into illustrator to see if it has any preserved vector art, then printing it there. If not, you may be able to import it into photoshop at a high DPI setting, adjust, print and see what happens.

1 month later
#22 9 years ago

Does anyone know if Inkscape can do proper CMYK? I have an project where I am recreating the entire artwork of a Bally Eight Ball playfield and I basically created everything in RBG colors. If I switch to CMYK will it store things in this format?

I eventually need to print some decals for the main pool balls in the lower playfield. My office photocopier keeps wrinkling the transparencies I tried. I have not dared put in my decal sheets. Just wondering what kind of laser printers people are using.

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