(Topic ID: 246543)

Debuging Xenon

By EdHess

1 year ago


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  • 19 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by arqpuebla
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#1 1 year ago

Debugging Xenon

Playfield swap done, lower and back cabinet refinished as well as playfield perimeter wood, all sockets replaced, mods installed ( blue leg lights, plasma bumper tops, all leds, under cab lights, new speakers, new ultimate solenoid driver board, lighted blue posts, light bar has blue LED’s now, lighted flippers and flipper buttons). I polished the ramps but honestly they could use about 10 hours on them or just get them rechromed. Also added an led light strip at top of playfield under the plastics the full length to brighten things up.
I bought a new apron but I am waiting for printshop to finish a translucent graphic to have a lighted plastic apron like you may have already seen here (hey bill, I’m working on it as fast as I can... lol )

Already had Alltek lamp board and mpu. Installed the new SDB just to be sure there were no data issues prior to begin with sound card issues.

No solenoid issues as between the dishwater and replacing all bushings they seem 100 percent

I still need to repin all connectors and replace the connector housings that pinch the wires like a scotch lock.

The debugging issues I am up against so far:

Low hum from speakers that seems to match the score display rotation when in attract mode.

Sounds play but there is one odd sound at times that I would describe as the same as using your tongue to make a fast clicking sound. Caps and pots on sound boards I have replaced just this morning.

I do realize the sound issues may disappear once I repin everything.

This machine came with switch no 28 wired to use the other most connectors of the three. But I have seen here other machines with the two left most connectors used. This is a major issue I need to fix as one way the switch is N.O. and the other the switch is N.C. Can someone who has debugged the 2 ball issue or no ball loading help clarify this???

The same question I think also pertains to switch no 27 tube switch, this machine came with outermost connectors used.

Switch adjusting tools arrived yesterday so I still need to go through each one and test for proper gapping.

There may be other issues I find as I go along... otherwise things are really shaping up.

#2 1 year ago

Need to add I did replace the sound board ROMs when doing the pots and caps. And they all test ok using the test switch

#3 1 year ago

Anxious to see this game in action when you get it done.

When does the clicking sound happen? Do you have a video?

#4 1 year ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

Anxious to see this game in action when you get it done.
When does the clicking sound happen? Do you have a video?

Not sure how to post video on this forum... Is it the same as just click “attach images”.

Now I am not sure but not knowing what to call the sound that I beleive is an “escalating” background. I think since i dont get the two happening together but rather one or the other.

Let me go try making a video.

#5 1 year ago

As far as the balls not loading you need to make sure the two micro switches underneath the apron and the ball trough are recognizing that both balls are in the game.

#6 1 year ago

This shows some of the sound and ball feed issues

#7 1 year ago

The ball feed problems seems to be the switch in where the 2 balls sit.

Or maybe the outhole switch not adjusted properly.

The side kick out if that was supposed kick the ball out and did not that is an adjustment on that switch. But it will lock the ball for multiball if you had already lit up the 3 xs for multiball.

So in the video tell us what you think it is supposed to be doing but is not. As far as the sound issue...I can't help you on that.

#8 1 year ago

PM sent

#9 1 year ago
Quoted from timab2000:

The ball feed problems seems to be the switch in where the 2 balls sit.
So in the video tell us what you think it is supposed to be doing but is not.

Btw do you recall which tabs to solder to for that micro switch under the apron. That i mentioned in the post. Two outermost or two left most? I am currently the two outmost as it came that way but I’ve seen pics using the two left most.

Switch number 1 and 2 are adjusted properly. As I stated above, no 28 I have a big question about.

Otherwise to answer your question, I am assuming that Xenon will only load 1 ball at a time into the shooter lane. And also assuming that a 2nd ball for multiball only loaded to the shooter lane while another is already in play, ie, ;locked in a side or top saucer. Is this correct? Problem I am having is I only had this for 2 days before I tore it all down for the restoration, so not a lot of familiarity with how its supposed to function.

#10 1 year ago

To get multiball you have to get the ball into the upper saucer 3 times, then it should say "Try tube shot". If you get the tube shot the ball should lock in the side saucer.

Next ball gets gets into the shooter lane, and you have to get that into the upper saucer again, maybe 3 times can't remember, but that should start multiball.

I unfortunately deleted all my teardown pics when I redid mine so I can't tell you on the which side of the switch question. Maybe someone else can chime in on that.

#11 1 year ago
Quoted from EdHess:

Btw do you recall which tabs to solder to for that micro switch under the apron. That i mentioned in the post. Two outermost or two left most? I am currently the two outmost as it came that way but I’ve seen pics using the two left most.

Different switch manufacturers wire the lug positions in their micro switches differently.
In this case you need to connect the wires to the lugs marked "C" (Common) and "N.O" (Normally Open).

If the switch lugs aren't marked, grab your multi-meter and check which two lugs show open circuit when the switch is open and then closed circuit when you close the switch.

Two balls sitting in the right side of the trough is an abnormal condition so switch 28 is there to detect it. This for example happens when you lift the playfield and the 2nd ball rolls from the outhole location into the trough. Or say you run solenoid test mode and the outhole kicker sends the 2nd ball into the trough but you exit solenoid test mode before the trough ball release coil activates to eject a ball into the shooter lane.
The game detects the abnormal ball positions and deals with it accordingly. A poorly adjusted switch 28 can cause the game to incorrectly detect two balls in the trough and spit them both out - it can be a bit finicky to get the switch 28 wireform position adjusted correctly.

#12 1 year ago
Quoted from Quench:

Different switch manufacturers wire the lug positions in their micro switches differently.
In this case you need to connect the wires to the lugs marked "C" (Common) and "N.O" (Normally Open).
If the switch lugs aren't marked, grab your multi-meter and check which two lugs show open circuit when the switch is open and then closed circuit when you close the switch.
Two balls sitting in the right side of the trough is an abnormal condition so switch 28 is there to detect it. This for example happens when you lift the playfield and the 2nd ball rolls from the outhole location into the trough. Or say you run solenoid test mode and the outhole kicker sends the 2nd ball into the trough but you exit solenoid test mode before the trough ball release coil activates to eject a ball into the shooter lane.
The game detects the abnormal ball positions and deals with it accordingly. A poorly adjusted switch 28 can cause the game to incorrectly detect two balls in the trough and spit them both out - it can be a bit finicky to get the switch 28 wireform position adjusted correctly.

Thanks, Ive already done that with the meter. Just for grins I moved the one wire, made no difference. Next move is to have meter connected while playing to see how wire form shape affects the switch action.

This issue was there from day one.

The clicking sound issue was not there prior to playfield swap. But not all sounds worked prior either. I did have more than a few wires come off in the dishwasher from lights and switches. Also I see someone previously ran a large purple wire on the left underside from what I think was the ac positive circuit upper location to ac positive lower location effectuvky typing two circuits together. I am thinking there may be a light trigger wire going to a switch and or vice versa. Used my before photos to get tit back to what is was before tear down but if it wasn’t right to be gin with or I missed one...

I found the clicking sound is consistent when ever any of the 4 lower lane switches is activated. So I know where to start looking. Essentially the switch matrix may not be worked properly or wired properly

What I need if anyone has it is their underside photos showing clear wire colors /stripes so I have a known good reference point to compare to ???

Anyone???

Age of many of these wires are faded and stripes are faded making color identification a bit challenging.

Been doing alarms and remote start installs 30 plus years so figuring out wiring abortions is not a new thing for me. If it was I couldn’t do this. I am convinced the wiring on this is not as it should be in either the before or after condition

Found a few playfield underside pics here but need to find some that are clear enough for accurate assembly comparison.

Guess I am lucky I know where to begin looking...

#13 1 year ago

I do need to find which voice sound rom is triggered by the 4 lower lane roll over switches to be sure it isn’t a rom chip, even though they all pass the audible test when using the test switch on the card. Hopefully I dont have socket issues besides.

#14 1 year ago

About the sound hum.
Clean de volume pot on the coin door. With some spray contact cleaner , and then move the pot in all directions. And then check if the hum go away. (Appended to me on my xenon) good luck

#15 1 year ago

About ball trought problem. Try desoldering the switch on the middle, #28. Xenon was designed originally to have 3 balls. But in the end they changed their mind , and went to production with only 2 balls, but that switch was not removed. And it's common to get you some issues. The fix is to desoldering it's cables.

Again , was my experience with my xenon, and saw that fix on some place I can't remember.

#16 1 year ago
Quoted from EdHess:

What I need if anyone has it is their underside photos showing clear wire colors /stripes so I have a known good reference point to compare to ???

Here are some pictures of my playfield lifted up. Maybe you can zoom in on it to help you out.

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#17 1 year ago
Quoted from EdHess:

I do need to find which voice sound rom is triggered by the 4 lower lane roll over switches to be sure it isn’t a rom chip,

You mean the outlanes and flipper return lanes? They don't produce speech so their sounds are not in the voice ROMs. Those lanes produce synthesized sounds from the main sound board.
For your reference, the words contained in each voice ROM are listed here:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/xenon-does-anyone-know-which-sounds-are-on-each-eprom#post-4766985

The behavior I'm seeing in your video looks like the right most trough switch is not detecting any balls, and your left side saucer switch is stuck closed.

I'd suggest that you run through the switch test mode and activate each switch as listed in the switch identification

Raise all the drop targets and remove all playfield balls from the game.
The game should report "0" in the ball in play display indicating no closed switches, if not you have a stuck switch that needs investigating.

Using the switch identification table in the manual (print page 17), activate each switch one at a time but do it in REVERSE order listed in the manual - i.e. start at switch 40 and work your way in reverse sequence to switch 1. Important that you do it in reverse order because the game only reports the lowest switch number that's closed.
Look for switches that don't respond, and switches that report the wrong number.

#18 1 year ago

Well that was a quick fix. Some how I had one of the 2 yellow wires on the side saucer switch broken off. Soldered that sucker back on and then removed the white and orange to no 28 microswitch and no more double ball issue but get this this: I am hearing sounds I never heard before! Next step I had Charlene (the resident pinball wizard and fiancé) put it through its paces. When she was all done and no issues found she said, “ I cant believe you took this all apart and actually got it all back together, working and looking like a brand new machine.”

I still have more things to to do before I call it finished, but man what a relief! I was thinking worst case stuff like, new mpu, replacing chip sockets, New chips. I went and ordered a logic probe today in case it got to that level.

And all I really want to do is have fun and play pinball.

Thanks for everyone’s help!

#19 1 year ago

Great!! Glad to help.
I remember have your same issue and I saw that about #28 in some forum I can't remember!!

Please let me know if you need a picture or something, I have my xenon on hand. Good luck

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