At least you are getting good health care.

All of us in the USA are paying (or our bosses are paying) $900+ a month for "health insurance" .

Have you not seen the threads on metallica? LE's getting re-routed to european customers, a 2nd run of premiums? Gary is laughing all the way to the bank.

I myself won't be able to afford a NIB for quite a while, but there are plenty of people who make a comfortable enough living (or have enough pin collection equity) to do so. Also I think we'll see a lot of these smaller niche companies selling for a much more reasonable price point that will hit a completely different market.

Not sure what the complaint is. If there is a crash you'll be sitting pretty with some good deals.

I'm fairly sure Stern has no control over the taxes you pay. I think you need to take that up with your elected officials.

I understand what you are saying....but I don't know if the Canadian market is the make-or-break point for Stern.

i'm generally part of the "prices are too high" crowd, but dear lord, that is a WHINY post....

I know where you're coming from for sure....but hey first world problems...right? I classify pinball as a luxury item and am very fortunate that I have the small amount I do. Heck my house just flooded today (2nd time in 3 months) and I'm still happy I'm not starving ya know?

Dear Flash,
Please dont blame others for the issues you have. I to wish that I could buy a Ferrari, but it is just not possible. It is not Sterns fault that you have made the choices that you have. You can live without a car payment, there is nothing to say you have to have a nice car. Please remember, although many of us have these as toys, this is not what they were created for, they were created to be in business making money and providing a return on the investment.

But while we are at it, could you ask hollywood to stop making movies that look great on the big screen. I can only put a 60 inch tv in my house and its just not right that i cant afford a 5000 square foot room with projector to watch a movie the way it was made to be seen

I will have to say I used to have way more fun in this hobby when it was affordable. I was ok spending 1k to 3k on a game play it for a while and get something else.

My wife would not care if I took out a couple of grand to buy a game. Now its like Honey can I have 7k for a game. Big difference.

I will continue to get new games but it is not as fun as when the prices were cheaper.

I agree. I make a decent living but it's to the point where I am like damn......... I just don't think I am getting 7500-8000 worth of american dollars in a Stern pinball machine regardless of how much money I make. The ceiling is close, or the alternative is pinball will become a collectible hobby for the super wealthy. If I have to take a step back, it will only be from NIB Stern games. Most other areas of the hobby is still affordable.

nope. whiny. real whiny. the whole post is "poor little me"... as noted, i fall firmly into the "wow, this is an expensive hobby" group, but you aren't doing yourself (or that group) any favors by your "pity poor me" post...

as others have noted, i want a ferrari too... but i'm not going to blame maranello (or my federal government) for me not having the cabbage to buy one...

I don't really understand this NIB crazy going on especially for all these newer games. Here you have people throwing thousands of dollars at something they haven't played or even seen yet . What if the game turns out to be a total dud? I'm in the wrong business for sure...

On average Canadians pay more tax than Amercians so it works itself out.

if I can use the car analogy here. we have two car dealerships selling cars. Mercedes priced cars and Porsche priced cars.

lots of room is available in the lower end. with all these silly nib prices the lower end nib market is empty. I do not consider a dumbed down pro as lower end, more a lobotomized premium for 4500 bucks.

nope we need a fully loaded Ford or Toyota in the 3500-4500 range.

jjp and stern are so busy selling machines for increasingly insane prices, it has left a major vacuum in the mid tier segment.

there is a market for Fords, a huge one. it will happen sooner or later hopefully, if not pinball will be a very limited hobby. we need affordable full value pins for operators, us pinheads and future hobbyists.

nobody wins with a limited hobby.

I have my limits on what I will spend on a machine. period. I do not look at pinball as an investment. It makes me happy and I smile more.

My NIB acdc will most likely be a one time shot for that kind of coin. I will not purchase a metallica at the NIB price point, LE, premium or pro.

lets just hope that the individual states in the U.S. start militantly going after every last penny of every transaction for sales tax.

If So, then my $7500 ACDC premium just becomes a $8000- $8300 premium depending on what city taxes are too on top of the state taxes. Yes, $500-$800 more would be a deal breaker for me. More on the principal of it and what I am willing to spend as opposed to can I afford it.

Lol! I live in Michigan near the Canadian border, they travel to the States non-stop to visit our doctors & dentists.
He is paying also: it's called a higher rate of taxes. Plus his Government is in control of his & his family's health care! No thanks!

depends on which tax bracket you're talking about, but for the most part it's pretty even:
http://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0411/do-canadians-really-pay-more-taxes-than-americans.aspx

Also you pay 1.73% for the national healthcare, which in my salary is about $1k a year. I pay upwards of $2k out of pocket just to have health insurance, and then my company easily kicks in another $5k.

I take it you're talking about harmonized tax. I pay 5% tax in AB Regardless, feel your pain and the the same argument could be made to many new items. My last car and my next, and my next, and my next....... was/will be used from the States for the same reasons.

I dont think the pos is "whiny." I think there is a lot of frustration in the market between escalating prices and the handeling of the Metallica pin. If the US had that many Metallica pins shifted towards Europe I can only imagine what is left over for Canada.

I like the hockey...but to be honest I'm not a huge fan of the beer...anymore.
And I like Mantracker a ton...he's a bad ass that doesn't care for those "Ontario" people.

buy cheaper pins. Ferrari has me locked out of the market also.

Well this thread is heading south real fast, and it started pretty close to the southern hemisphere to begin with. Maybe a few of you should take the time to read the forum rules again, especially the part where it says no politics, I am pretty sure debating the domestic healthcare and tax policies of Canada and the United States would fall into that category. This is a pinball forum. Keep it nice and keep it related to pinball.

I believe Stern has previously addressed your concerns with a product they refer to as "The Pin".
Now step aside while the rest of us argue about Metallica LE issues and JJP's WOZ release dates.

FYI: NIB isn't for everyone. There are TONS of great games at a fraction of the price.
TSPP for $4000 a few weeks ago. Lots of play in a machine like that.
Stern also offers the Pro models if that's closer to your budget.
Not sure how anyone can complain about not being able to afford the LE editions of a new release.

There is a lot more to pinball than NIB pins.

I feel for ya Flash...thats why I don't even take vacations over there anymore.

But your gotta admit....your country (especially the Ontario area) has the hottest strippers in the world outside of Vegas!

Theres a silver lining in every cloud....

I paid 945.60 tax for my LE for British Columbia, Canada, and another 290 for freight...

I feel your pain, but it's a luxury item so you don't really NEED it...if you WANT it, you gotta pay

The market is VERY strong right now...

Dear ______________

whiner.jpg

And those of us without insurance are paying through the nose (or in my case, my leg).

Lol! No Doubt about it!

Go bankrupt. Sad but true.

The only value anything has is what someone is willing to pay for it. If machines are being bought and sold for these high dollars, unfortunately thats just the way it is. Nobody can say its actually worth this or that, its worth whatever someone is willing to pay. Deal with it. I have to.

If you have to spend 1/5 of your annual income to purchase a new pin, then I'm pretty sure you aren't the target consumer.
If you are willing to spend 1/5 of your annual income on a pinball, then you might have money management issues.

I can't afford a new Stern so I don't buy one. I'm not upset about it. I can afford plenty of cool stuff compared to the person on the next level of pay below me. It's all relative.

Now being a proud capitalist, if I decided I had to have a Stern I would develop a plan to either save the money over time or find a way to make new income so I could afford one. I applied this philosophy when I started the gameroom hobby. I now have plenty of games, paid off all of my investment, and even had a decent arcade "rainy day fund".

Insert "deal with it" gif here as you see fit.

Yep but don't worry...this is going to be the last time people pre-order for this much. Well I mean after ST...but really seriously that's the last goddamn time...wait what Iron Maiden? Ok sure well i gotta have that one but after that that's it no way no more!

Not yet! I traded an NIB left kidney for the operation so that I could still afford MOP.

My last new Stern (WOF) came from the Playdium out of Canada and was a bargain at $2850 delivered so thank you Canada. Prior to that a Stern FG from Jack . I do not plan on buying any more NIB games. As much as I like pins I feel that they are pricing themselves out of the market and I just do not put a value on any pin be it NIB or an "A" list title game at 8 grand ( or more).

To each their own and if someone want to spend that more power to them. They are all coin-op vending machines at heart and made to make money. The collector and hobby market has made the remaining manufactures take a turn and target games to this seemingly deeper pocket market.

Damn those Dodge people too, that 2014 Viper SRT I want is priced way out of line.

and on top of that they want me to pay a gas guzzler tax!

You do realize if this massive crash happens, that will be the end of Stern, JJP, or anyone making pins.

They can't do it cheaper.

You think it doesn't pain me, to not get new pins for my customers ? I've always put them first.

I do what a can, and keep up on service.

You can adapt too. Get cheap pins and fix them up and sell them and get better pins. Get pins you like. Don't feel left out on the flavor of the month.

LTG : )

you sure about that?

Blame Canada!

Well, most importantly: they AREN'T doing it cheaper.
According to the most recent pre-book sales for Metallica, Sterns not going to fail if one more person out there declares the machines too expensive.
There are plenty of folks able to make the purchases presently.

ummm, no thanks Im happy with my plan.... hey remember pinball.

Hey its a choice you have to make now that the hobby has gone thru the roof in prices. I'd rather ride my HD 100th anniversary Wide Glide then have a MB sitting in the basement. Actually a MB is more then my Harley now. I'll keep my Harley. I do think that the pins are WAY overpriced now. If Stern was selling NIB for 3800 to 4200 what went up in costs the last two years?

Yes.

This is America, it's not a sin to make a profit. That is what keeps them in business. And Companies aren't getting rich doing this.

Remember prior to Stern having the lay offs ? We had some really great $3600 pins. And Stern was in a financial crisis.

Then along came the investors, Stern got past the dumb them down theory days.

Look at what they are doing now. Look at what JJP is doing.

And manufacturing costs. Lower quantities, higher prices. The days of any company ordering 100,000 flipper plunger assemblies is over. So are cheaper prices per unit.

Figure out what is all in a new pinball machine. Add up the parts costs. Throw in some for labor. Add $500 for profit for the company ( and I doubt they are getting that much ) add in a little more than usual for a good license, or great designers or programmers.

And there you go. $5500 pros, $6500 premiums, $7K plus LE's.

These manufacturers didn't just get up one morning and say lets f**k the buyers for all they can.

They did get up one morning and said, how can we turn this around ? Get some great names involved, exciting titles for games, and put lots into them.

That is what they did. Put hope and excitement back into pinball, the game we love. Unfortunately they couldn't do it for free.

LTG : )

I agree with most of what you say...but, I don't believe they can't make the same machine, sell it for $5-6K and not make a profit. I think a car is way more complicated than a pinball machine and you can get one of them for $8k.