I personally would not pay anywhere near 7.5K for a machine. Not everyone though is in the same finacial situation as me. Some people could not touch my collection. Some people could buy my collection, bury it in their yard and not miss the cash. It all depends on what an individual can comfortably spend. There are those who will buy all the new machines, and those who cannot. And then there are those who could, but won't. I could get a Monster Bash for example right now, but I do not think it is worth 8K+. I would pay $3000 for one, tops. That is why it will never find its way into my collection. I could have it if I want, but do not want it bad enough to justify the price. For me, $7500 would be an out of control price. I do love pinball, but that kind of cash could go a long way towards other things that have a much more realistic price tag to satisfy my wants and needs.

funny you mention it playpin- makes me laughf when they talk cost of a pin, or a break down part ect ect some hobbies are pretty brutal really can have truely bad days!!! beside drag raceing surpriseing costly is photography, 2-5k per lenz x? for a camera next thing you know you have 10 to 20 all in a hand bag that weights what 15 to 30 pounds??? im starting to like pinball more and more all the time!

Okay, when I look at it I see it entirely different. We have to remember that although there is a big home market, and all of us would LOVE to have every new pin in our basement for $3k you have to look at the market these are being sold in. These are Amusement Machines, intended for bars - arcades - etc. I operate both. And when I compare a pin to the cost of most other arcade machines I tend to ask myself how they can sell them so cheap, or rather how I am being F*cked by all the other companies.

Take a look at the cost on other arcade machines.
Fruit Ninja, a big TV screen with a single board computer inside. $9000
Monster Drop, if you only get the side by side little ones. IT drops a bouncy ball into a hole $10k
Big Bass Wheel, A big Price is Right wheel and a 20" TV. $11k
Side by Side Basket ball games, a hoop, a board, and a ball. $10k easy
New shooting games by NAMCO, $20-40k
A Pinball machine, tons of tiny intricate parts, extensive artwork, sound and programming. The nature of the game is a steel ball bouncing around a wood & plastic playfield. And has to be built to at least last somewhat. etc,etc,etc. $7.5k for the TOP OF THE LINE. With TV's. Magnets, multiple playfields, and more. $5k for the more "affordable ones"

Then I sit back and say hey, pin's are pretty affordable. But I put one on location, and that big stupid wheel that costs 2x as much and has 1/2 the craftsmanship inside of it, and a game lasts 10 seconds, with not skill, no real fun, no rules, no opportunity for free games or a high score. I push a lever and I get some tickets. And it will out perform that pinball machine 5x week to week.
Why? Because I can get a kid to put 4 tokens in, spin the wheel and they understand it. The Pin needs learning, thought, skill, etc. etc.

These games aren't priced based on what goes into them, they are based on how much money can be put into them. That wheel may not be as cool, fun, or intricate. But it makes a ton of $. Same as that Pin thats amazing but only makes what it can.

These companies recognize that. And price them accordingly. Truth is: It is a tough market. And all things considered. The Pinball companies are the MOST AFFORDABLE when it comes to what I am getting. Especially when a coin roller that does nothing but have a spinning wheel, costs $4k.

Just trying to put it in perspective. You have to remember the nature of the machine you are buying.

Money and what you'd pay for things is a funny area...

I started in 2001 when excellent condition for most "A" games were in the $2500-$3000 range. That was back when MM was like $4500 and I was like "no way would I pay that much for a game" when I could basically get two great games for that price.

Now the IJ and TZ and SS I sold in 2006 for around $2700 are all double that price for the same condition game today. And forget MM and a few others.

So what seems to be an outrageous price today may indeed seem like a bargain in 5 -7 years.

Buy what you can and be happy.

You'll always want more.

Do other hobbies have people constantly complaining of prices, or is it just pinball? And if so, what is it about pinball collectors that makes them whine so much?

I operate a golf course. NOT A SINGLE golfer EVER complains about green fees or equipment prices.

Man... Do we spend a lot of time rationalizing the irrational.

Like I've said many times before....."just a bunch of whiny little bitches".......per Sam, Burn Notice

I just like posting this reply today.

I have the same attitude towards all my hobbies. I do not complain about the prices that I pay, I just do not pay for something that I personally think is overpriced. I paint with an air-brush. I paid for a great one that has lasted for at least 10 years. It was about $200 for my set up. I would not buy one for a grand because to me that is not going to make me any better of an artist. When I played paintball I got an Autococker for $479. I could not see buying a paintball gun for $1700+. I played just fine with what I had. I would not complain about prices, I just had my limits. To me, there are some pinball machines that I really wanted to have. When I got them the last thing that I did was complain about how much I spent. I enjoyed the game and played the hell out of them. As far as I'm concerned, if you put a newer Stern machine next to a lower priced DMD machine from the 90's, I will get the lower priced one, but will pass up the Stern every time. I won't whine about it but I do have my limits. So its not just pinball for me. I have the same attitude about everything.

I feel exactly the opposite, I would much rather spend in that range for classic B/W games than anything Stern has turned out in the past 5 years, not even close.

As far as is $7500 too much for a pin, for what Stern gives you, hell yes, for what JJP is promising, we'll see. With shipping and tax I'll have that much into WOZ when I get it, and then I'll make the judgement of whether I got good bang for my buck. Of course that will also help me to decide if I'll proceed with The Hobbit as well.

I went to Burger King today. The whopper value meal wasn't 2.99 anymore I WAS PISSED!

7.5K is a lot of money for an entertainment device. I mean, there are guys that can go through that much money in Vegas in 1.5 seconds, but still...

I don't think it is too much. Pinball machines are usually not one of those things that the average consumer can often often afford without saving up for awhile.

I have bought several nib sterns and I've never paid $7500.

Threads about prices is way past beating a dead horse. It had so many beatings it should be called beating a dead pony.

You can talk about prices until your face turns blue, in the end two simple facts will always count, supply and demand and it's worth what someone will pay for it.

For the quality of WOZ and what you get for that $7500 I would say no.

I can't justify $7500 on a pin. Honestly, there's really only about one pin I'd consider throwing $5k at, and that would be a long time considering. Not that I can't afford that amount, but to me, there's great games to be had for much less and, in my mind, reasonable prices. My game room will likely never have MM, CC, AFM, JJP pins, etc. in it, but that's OK. I'd rather retire earlier and have more time for the titles I do have anyway

I have 13 (or 14 now?) pins in my collection. All solid state or newer and have not paid more than 600(baywatch) for any of them. I have lots of fun playing them. 7.5k is out of my financial situation. Maybe not for others. The value of a pinball is what someone is willing to pay for it. Apparently that can reach 10k nowadays.

I just live within my means, buy pins i can afford and have fun. I am a deal hunter though. Patient and quick on the draw. Make the sale easy on the seller helps to win competed games.

Wish the prices where less but, yeah what you going to do. I should have purchased more 5 years ago..........

Darn right it's like $8 something now

Buy what you can afford and want and avoid what you can't...easy...

Nice collection.

Look at this way also... you could sell out for 1k/game.. reinvest all your money into an MM, AFM , etc...
And then when people take one look at your collection they would think " this guy is an over spending *A title* fanboy". Which in reality, is far from the truth.

Strange isn't it?

Buying ACDC was my absolute max on what I would spend on a pin (and that was much less NIB than $7500). Something about any NIB pin being over $5k just seems wrong (hence why I only have the one, which took a lot of convincing even before I pulled the trigger on buying it).

If this is the norm for pricing, I'm going to stick with Predator as my last NIB purchase and go after used/project pins from here on out, or simply just rotate the collection through straight trades.

JJP rule #5, If demand wains, inflate Hobbit preorder numbers to lower perceived supply, cross fingers that demand increases.

As far as prices are concerned, that ship has sailed.

This hobby reached a tipping point quite a few years ago - and basically it was necessary to ensure the SURVIVAL of pinball - specifically to ensure the continued production of new games. The market shifted from a vending/for-profit business venture to a BALANCE between vending/on-location "public" game placement and serving a collector market.

STERN Pinball - the (previously) "only remaining" US pinball manufacturer recognized this and met the need - witness the availability and sale of "Limited Edition" games - something unheard-of in the 1990s. People are willing to buy them and STERN sells them. VERY smart of them to make both a premium LE (price points usually north of $6,000 USD) and also a more "Business-friendly" PRO version (price points usually less than $5,000 USD) presumably intended for public locations.

Now, enter Jersey Jack (and Spooky - and whatever others may follow) - EVERYONE wants to see these succeed - not only to "revive" pinball BUT ALSO to maybe encourage some variety and competition (i.e. innovations and better games). I have no doubt that AC/DC (Stern) was most likely a far better game than it might have been without the "inspiration" of Wizard of Oz on the horizon.

These games are complex and technologically advanced - and that costs $$.

My guess is the law of supply and demand has been heavily influenced by the popularity of shows like "Pawn Stars", "American Pickers", and others that weren't around ten years ago that have promoted pinball machines as highly collectable. I know it has increased the interest of some of my friends that weren't really interested in the hobby before.

I agree with this - there is certainly an increase in visibility due to the influence of these shows.

Sadly, the result is people getting into the hobby for reasons that are all wrong. "I am going to make money with a great investment." This sentiment is at odds with those of us who own the games for the love of PLAYING and enjoying pinball - and it leads to prissy crybaby behavior with people believing the games are meant to be "preserved" and "gently used" if used at all - God forbid the "investment" suffer the indignity of actually being USED AND PLAYED for FUN.

I stand at odds with this view and corruption of pinball.

B

Or boats. Boating is expensive. Get anything around 20+ feet and watch it suck up the money... cost of the boat, maintenance, dockage, storage (if up North), gas, big enough car/hitch to pull the boat if necessary,...

Pinball is cheap by comparison.

That said. I picked up a really nice AFM about 7 years ago before its price went through the roof. It's a solid 9 out of 10. No cabinet fade or dings and the Ung small saucer mod. And I play the heck out of it. It's no "trailer queen".

Best boat is somebody else's boat.

Tired of the stern / BW comparrison. Give the sterns 20 years to grow up in the wild then compare. The BW pins were coming out when arcades were in full swing. Those machines were routed or atleast most of them were. What percentage of pins being sold today go on route??? 15%???

since when can you get a new Hyundai for $7,000? (spoiler alert: you can't -- the cheapest new car in america is about $12,000)

no, don't do this. nobody knows what future prices will be. counting on pinball machines as a guaranteed investment is for fools. (although feel free to sell that argument to your wife if it greases the skids )

I also play hockey, ride dirt bikes, and starting this summer jet skis. New skis and bikes can cost upwards of $6k+ and then you got the gear. Then I have to put gas in them, and haul them miles away to ride them. Then pay track or launch fee's, maintenance fee's, etc. Then guess what when I go to sell, I don't get anything near what I paid for it.

I think new pins are getting up there in price and there is definitely some sticker shock involved. I wish you could still get NIB shipped to your house for $4k but those days are gone. I also understand that some people are willing and able to afford these higher priced new games, or restored games like AFM, MM, etc. To each their own, and I honestly could care less. I buy what I want, and I pay the going rate, no sense in bitching about it.

I'm just not sure how, as a 29 year old, I'm going to make enough to buy a house and put some pins in it. I think I'm gonna be renting my whole life

There's irony here somewhere...

I see more folks whining about the "price whiners" than the actual price whiners themselves...

I'm no internet forum expert but methinks these threads would die out if no one cared to post in them

Also, I've figured out how to NOT OPEN threads I don't want to read....

People like to whine and people like to whine about people that whine. Vicious circle, yet entertaining at times.

I was reading this high end home decor magazine and i think i know who would pay $10k for a pin:

Problem is that I have bad eyes and can't tell what type of pin that is.

Capture.JPG

cool game room though....

- Rev

$6500 for any NIB is my cutoff. I stick by it. $6k for any NIB sterns is my cutoff there. You have to set limits, or things get out of control. Those are shipped or pickup prices. Many don't have any limits set for themselves and hence the chaos prices we have.

Btw, to the above post. Looks like NBA to me and a duel arcade.

Spot on.

So you must really love the guys selling their rights and tagging on an extra $1000.00 for a pin they don't even have.

I don't understand rooms like that... such a huge space and a tiiiiny (relatively) TV. I would never mount a TV above a fireplace either (but no worries, I doubt I'll ever live somewhere with such fanciness as a real fireplace )

I agree. That layout could be improved dramatically.

I've seen that picture before. There is a website called houzz.com (and the Ipad app) that has home design stuff. If you search "pinball" on the app, there are a number of pictures that show home game rooms with pinball machines.

It is a NBA.

I wish I was closer...

As long as the quality is there I don't mind spending that type of dough on a pin. Yes its a ton of money but pinball is one of the few hobbies you can get most of your money back, maybe some extra, from. I had an 81 Delorean but sold it as I just didn't want to spend the money on maintenance and upgrades. In the end I just had to cut down on the number of hobbies I'm into to afford a few pinball machines and a NIB WOZ.

Supply + Demand is relevant when talking about old pins since the supply is basically diminishing while demand is growing. However, it's not really relevent in new pins, as there's no real limits to how many new pins Stern or JJP can put out. If the demand is there, they can put out more pins.

At some point you don't even consider a TV in your main living space...

^^^

true, eventually you move on to a projector...