Nice thanks for the info. I’ll look into it!

Is the upgrade noticeable without a Pin woofer? I want to upgrade but don't want spend $500.

I would guess so, seen tons of posts talking about how adding a sub to a pinball machine makes a big difference.

I love focusing my money on lights and sound but haven't upgraded sound yet. Can you tell me what kind of difference in sound I can get by changing out the speakers but not Amp?

Wondering the same thing myself. I had to replace a cab woofer recently and thought about installing a better speaker with a larger magnet but want sure it would make much difference. Plus…the stern speakers are $10 a piece as opposed to like $80+ for a higher quality

Go here, read....learn!

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/improving-sound-quality-the-diy-route

Lots of owner info and tweaks.

I replaced my speakers with Kenwood 5 1/2 ( LE versions) ..I already had an external sub hooked up. Right away, I noticed an improvement in clarity, sound and music. I then forgot, whoops, I didn't set my ohms in the settings, so I switched to 4 ohms, which the speakers are rated for and it sounded like crap, not just a lower gain volume, but a worse presence and sound stage. So I started doing all the research if I would blow my Stern amp by running at 8 ohm with 4 ohm speakers... Seems that the DSP and the way the setting is on the Stern board isn't necessarily setting an ohms output to match the speakers. In the meantime, I installed a DIY pinwoofer amp in the backbox which also made a difference and the ability to dial in the sound separation. Switched back to the 8ohm setting...

My friends Black Knight LE shipped from the factory with the kenwoods and 8 ohm setting even though the speaker is 4..

To contrast, I put only the upgraded Kenwoods in my Star Wars with the external sub and yes, there is marked improvement.

Now, this is not going to be audiophile sounds upgrade... It is pinball after all and the output is only as good as the source material.

I originally did the upgrade for the 5 1/2 inch Speaker light upgrade on a premium to give it that LE look, the sound upgrade was a bonus.

When you start getting into the minutia of sound you're going to get all kinds of opinions from audiophiles about dialing in and perfection but if you just want a look to match the LE versions without breaking the bank and don't want to spend on external amps, simply upgrading the back box speakers with an external sub will do the trick... and to my ears it sounds incredible. The DIY pinwoofer amp is a great bonus for the speaker amp setup as you can add this after you have it set up if you really want more control for the soundstage

When my Godzilla comes in I've got the flaming speaker light kit upgrade so I didn't opt for the bigger 5 and 1/2 in and I'll just put the 4-in kickers on since they're going to be hidden behind the speaker wall... I may add the DIY pinwoofer amp to that config
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So leave them at 8ohms even though they are 4?

Yeah 8 ohm setting won't hurt anything.

Go with what sounds best to you. Try tweaking all of the audio settings to get the best sound, especially is using upgraded speakers.

Great looking collection fooflighter !

The DIY product remains allocated while components are on backorder until about June, but formally July 22nd. You may backorder the DIY product if you like:

https://pinwoofer.com/accessories/diy/

If others are pursuing their own DIY that's great and we don't want to be negative on that so PLEASE, do not take this in a negative way. (This has actually been a huge boon for us because many are not able or willing to embrace the complexity, the time sink or have simply "punched-out" when attempting it). That's OK since we offer the fully supported PinWoofer Super Kit, and of course the PinWoofer DIY option linked above - both options being turnkey.

Something that's compelling but not comprehensively covered are the economics. If you are pursuing your own DIY doing a full setup to save on cost, you're chasing about $10 - $85 in savings comparatively. You'll need to be ready to invest the time and if you get into a bind, you'll have to figure it out and you may end up with audible issues or power challenges.

Below is a comparison of costs and if you are interested you can check out our blog entry to get more color:

https://pinwoofer.com/blog/pinball-diy-sound-and-audio/

You can argue many of the line items +/- in terms of cost or the item itself, but we feel that what's shown is baseline in terms of what you'll need to invest to complete an audio upgrade on your own (based upon current pricing):

Have a stellar day everyone and thanks for your support!

DIY Kit Comparison (resized).jpg

Love my pinwoofers, especially in this title. Dan's the man.

PinWoofer , thanks for the comparison. Have many of your products and they and the support are outstanding as always!

Have a pinwoofer on a used DP i got a few months ago and sounds great. Its a great product to just have something plug and play.

I am a bit DIY heavy kind of person so made the IMDN upgrade myself when i got that last month. While some prices are a bit on the high end in that list (12 dollars for speaker wire), those accessories have enough parts in it to last several installs. Think I finished my IMDN at $225, though $30 of that I have spare wires and adapters for 3-4 more builds, so future games will cost about 175. Main reason I can get it that much lower is because some of the parts in that list I can design and print on my own (the mounting rings are about 5 dollars of filament, but 1-2 hours of design and the afternoon of printing)

Thanks for the accolades guys - kind words make this worth the effort! To quote someone here in the shop "pinball is supposed to be fun" LOL

They had a Texas Pinball Fest sale going for the length of the convention but unfortunately that ended. I know they've done Black Friday/Cyber Monday sales in the past though if that helps.

You're probably right about that. My friend and I are going in on a Weird Al Multimorphic together for some variety. Fortunately there are a few really good places nearby to play pinball so this should be the last one for a while. (Probably not but my wallet sure hopes so)

I was about to order the side armor but just found out they are plastic. Are they cheap looking and how do they hold up?

For my audio solution, I found a DIY recipe that is about half of pinwoofer's estimates. I am using this in my DP and IMDN. The sound quality is very good. It puts out clean audio that gets as loud as I can stand without a hint of distortion, so there is plenty of power headroom. There is better control of the cross over frequencies and gain adjustments for fine tuning. This is also captured in the diy audio thread with some additional pictures.

Car amp Blaupunkt 4-ch $66.00
Power Supply Meanwell 15V 7A $16.00
Main speakers Boss 5 1/4" $30.00
Cab speaker Pyle 10" $20.00
Spike2 line out DIY $10.00
audio cables 4-way 1/8" to RCA $13.00
Speaker mounts DIY 3D printed

Total $155.00

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Q28CNSN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s02
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B019GYON9E/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004S52O5M/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s02
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007JV7F4W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B082VVSGJJ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0957DDZK9/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00

I can see the prices have crept up a few bucks since I purchased a couple of weeks ago thanks to the new Amazon surcharges, but you get the idea. And don't get me wrong, pinwoofer provides a great product and Dan has exceptional customer service. It is an easy, straightforward way to go. I have one of his original kits in my Metallica. That said, if you have the know how and a little time, you can put together potentially a better sounding system at about half the cost.

It's not plastic. The black parts are metal. The cheap part is the katana which is cardboard. Yeah. But, it does look pretty good.

That makes me feel better about getting them. Thanks.

Hey RobF - hope all is well and we sincerely appreciate your past purchase for Metallica!

Hopefully it was clear, but I'm not really speaking at all to the purist DIY'er, and I don't disagree with your "if you have the know how" sentiment. In fact, that was part of the thrust. If you're already setup with some combination of tools, crimps, 3D printing, wire assortment and have the drive - go for it. But, our customer base is generally different in this regard, admittedly with some cross-over for whom we offer our DIY amplifier product.

I do want to stand by my cost list since I feel it was very well measured. There are a number of things required to get a good outcome; many subtle, but vital and they come with a monetary cost.

As one example of what I called out as "audible issues", and just looking out for folks, there are better choices for a cabinet speaker compared to that Pyle model. I know because we returned a pallet of them when Pyle changed (cost reduced) the frame from metal stamp to plastic. (In IMDN I would expect you to hear it buzzing / oscillating loudly?) Also, the hole pattern does not match the factory studs, so you'll need to drill / screw into the cabinet in some way or make an interposer to fit the studs. (I made such an interposer with 8 mounting points to try and salvage things, but the frame is simply not rigid enough to prevent the magnet from oscillating.) Avoiding things like this, and a host of other things are what we're about, and we strive for a good "experience" with our high degree of integration.

In summary, a fair illustration of the cost in a comprehensive way including the array of miscellaneous things that will crop up was the purpose. Not to the purist, but to those we benefit the most. There are a lot of guys who look at the parts and pieces and simply don't want to go there and that's where we come in. I'd like to see both camps live in harmony (queue the kumbaya).

OK, thanks for your post and have a great evening!

Cardboard? Are you serious? Official stern side rail armor?

Yeah for sure. DP has a fantastic sound package. Any option to improve the sound quality on our machines is a win for everybody. I wasn't implying one option was better than the other. I like sharing what works for me.

I can confirm these *do not* require a mount adapter ring in the spike2 cabinets (also assume the same for spike1, but haven't tried). All I did was add a dense foam ring and swapped the mounting nails to 6-32" screws and nuts. But the mounting holes lined up perfectly. Maybe you are thinking of SAM mounting? As far as buzzing and rattling from them, I have not experienced that. On my DP, I can push the volume way up and I have been pleasantly surprised how it handles the lower frequencies with the hard push from the car amp. On my IMDN, I don't think there is any buzzing from the speaker, but to be honest above a certain volume level I still have uncontrollable glass rattle. I did notice like you mentioned, they moved from metal to plastic frame and it did seem to warp slightly when I torque down the mounting screws. I mean, these things are cheap 8" drivers. My expectations are set to match that.
But I'll keep an ear out for this. Thanks for pointing it out.

Has anyone had their ball go sdtm after the mini Deadpool lock releases the ball? My game is at 7.0 and even side to side. The ball is in the right corner of mini Deadpool and when the drop targets drop to release it, it goes sdtm.

Also, my drop targets there don't always go down if they are hit hard dead on. Anyone have these issues and have fixed them?

My apologies if this has been addressed, but my search skills fail, apparently.

Sometimes perfectly level side to side is not what you want. Try dropping your front left leg by a thread and see how it plays.

Yep. When I got them I thought someone was messing with me. Like, how could the sword not be metal? Yet, here we are.

Thanks for responding. My front legs are already flat on the floor and it's at 7.0. Are you suggesting I raise my front legs a bit, then drop the front left a bit, then raise the back again to keep 7.0? I had it on 6.5, 6.7 for a while, but love 7.0. All of my games are even side to side, so just trying to understand.

Sure, obviously working slow and making minor incremental adjustments. When I set up my games, make sure not to bottom out the front adjusters. I leave maybe 1 or 2 rotations to help with dialing in.

Seems like we're having a different experience. There was a recent post suggesting the same difference in mounting diameter (note the drywall screw, and removal of 3 of the 4 studs):

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-godzilla-official-owners-club/page/192#post-6877190

One of life's mysteries!

Drop targets have had this issue for a while, what makes the Deadpool ones worse is that the targets are close to getting direct and hard shots.. You can play with the shelf with shims and filing the nubs on the target backs all day and drive yourself crazy as I've done. Shave too much and the targets won't stay up, shim too much and they become bricks and don't drop

You can also reduce the flipper power a little but I can still brick them at 235 power.. And then the game doesn't play as snappy

I'm scraping the shim/file method for new springs

I'm trying the stronger springs that Pinball Life sells for the Ghostbusters Scolari Brothers targets...

My theory is, the stronger springs will help pull the target quicker when struck hard. I think what's happening is the rebound from a hard shot is causing the targets to come back to the shelf before the factory springs have a chance to pull the target down

I'll see if these work. I'm using them on translucent drops similar in material to the factory ones

As far as your SDTM drains... Are you measuring side to side level at the flippers, midpoint, and backfield.. I know my floor is uneven, even in a new construction home and it's amazing what 2 get can do to side to side leveling.

If its a newer machine with warranty

If its a newer machine under warranty open a ticket with Stern. They sent me a whole new drop target mech when I had issues a couple years ago.

Just joined the club. Picked it up last night and spent the day shopping it out. I tore the playfield down. Novus 2 then wax on everything. Polished the ramps. Washed all the plastics. Cleaned all the mechs (flippers were grimy and coil stops needed to be filed). Freshly waxed this game plays so amazing. Thanks to all in this thread for the little tech tips that I checked out while I had it all apart. I added a trough light and a 3D printed stand up target stabilizer on the SNIKT target to keep it in perfect alignment while everything was in pieces. This pin is a real pleasure to shop out. It’s a great design. Loving this pin.

3D printed target stabilizer
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SNIKT in the right spot
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Coil stops before filing
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Left flipper done, right to go
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Torn down to clean and wax
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Ramp polish
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Shined up and ready to play
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Yeah it's some kind of pinball Mandela effect. I think specific orientation is the key.

PXL_20220416_014052699 (resized).jpg

I used that same 8” in my JDJP, although I wired it differently. That’s a dual voice coil speaker, and you are only driving a single voice coil that way which might be a little wonky…

Mine is set up so it is wired in series, and has 8ohms impedance in that configuration (2x 4 ohm voice coils)
C4213646-7EA4-4A07-B87E-8C7B14AC10C3 (resized).jpeg

You have yours set for series wiring, so it is an 8ohm load. I think you should also try single 4ohm like I have mine and see if the stock amp pushes more sound out of it. The car amp that I am using is perfectly fine at 4 and even 2 ohm (parallel dual coil config), but I don't have a need. Single channel 4ohm output is more than enough for me. Not connected in the picture is my fourth channel wired to the second coil.

Would you mind sharing the stl file?

I always thought driving a single coil of a dual voice coil speaker was a no-no
https://www.bestcaraudio.com/do-i-have-to-use-both-coils-on-my-car-audio-subwoofer/

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3022038

Yes that is techincally correct, although I am going to guess at the low power levels we are talking, one wouldn't likely hear any degradation. In any case, for my setup I will drive both 4ohm coils by individual channels on my amp. If you are using the stock spike2 cpu board you don't have that option so you have it setup correctly.
>>

Back to DP content....I have had my prem for a month and man o man I really like this game. One thing I noticed that seemed like a code bug; sometimes when regeneration is lit during a multiball, and the ball save is on; a drain to the left outlane will consume the regeneration. I don't think it is every time and could possibly only be during certain multiballs and/or maybe only after add-a-ball restarts the ball save? It isn't consistent or what I would expect so thought it strange.

Another question I had, after you start 2x playfield, does additional snikt shots start the timer over again when it moves to the next multipler value?

Yes! Bouncing it up to the next level *right before* the timer runs out is a rush!

For what its worth, my dp premium did not come out of the box with that parallel alignment. It was angled. I noticed it and adjusted it straight. It made the SNIKT shot much more difficult and the game less fun. So i put it back how it came and i'ts wonderful. Not sure what the design intent is, but i know which angle i prefer.

Great job on the bracket reinforcement!

Can anyone that has the stern kitana side rails post some pics. More than a bit concerned at the cardboard or how well they stand up. So some pics or some of yall exp with them would be appreciated.

Looking back at the gallery saw this one:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/deadpool-owners-club-free-chimichangas-for-all/page/46#post-4921775

Armor cutout with cardboard katana design behind the rail. Doesnt look bad, but yeah, could have been more

Thanks a bunch. Those pics do look really nice

I was going by the key post on here where George Gomez indicated how the target should be. When I got mine it was pushed way too far back. I think it makes it easier to make that way rather than in the intended position. If it’s in your home set it up however you enjoy playing it.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/deadpool-owners-club-free-chimichangas-for-all/page/92#post-5300308

40,000+ play milestone!

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I juuuust put one of these in my Austin Powers!

It’s a great speaker for the price.

$250 for some cardboard swords? Makes me not want to but them. Is there a site where we can buy just blank metal side armor?

Such a great game. Got tons of time on an LE with the .86 code. The updated code is awesome on this. Really enjoying unpacking this game on my pro at home.

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Nice score!

Wow, if it was 0.96 that was when Mechsuit MB was introduced and a lot has changed since then in terms of Mode progression and stacking. You will have a lot to unpack!