Thanks Hank! Awesome info. I think Deadpool could be a good game with Elwin's coders. That will mean a yes for us on the Munsters and a definite no for us on the Beatles.

Yep. If true they are doubling down with Lonnie on a huge title. Maybe go back to Lonnie and Lyman as together they are good. If it's just Lonnie, the game will flop.

Even easier pass on Beatles for me now. I'm done with the Lonnie show.

Tanyo is on Dead Pool

Lonnie is good for people entering the hobby, very easy to work out what is going on and easy to play. Lyman is a genius and my favourite coder. For some reason I am patient with Lyman code and very impatient with Lonnie code. Kiss and AS (both good games) should have been polished off by now so at least all the stuff on the playfield is coded in and worked properly. I was convinced that Deadpool was going to be Lonnie so we opted out.

Gomez is reason enought to opt out of Deadpool. The early playfield that leaked reeked of recycled Gomez ideas, and that's not a good thing.

Why do all of you people that don't like Gomez games keep coming in here and posting it like a broken record? Deadpool is a Gomez game. This is neither the game nor the thread for you. Spend you energy elsewhere.

I honestly like the leaked potential design a lot. Hell, Avengers is a decent game imo, and would be better if the code wasn't pretty weak with crap voice work, imo. This looks better in every way, with some really unique shots and features. Transformers is another more recent title of his let down by code mainly, imo.

Gomez has worked on some awesome machines - LOTR, JM, MB anyone? I'm looking forward to Deadpool...

We like Gomez. We had AVLE in our home for years and it outlasted plenty of other games when it came time to chop one (TF, XMen, WPT, HS2 and FT). We liked it as it was different. I did fully strip it and get everything working as it should. Took a long time. Big downside to AV. We only sold it to make room and cash up for The Munsters.

If the leaked Deadpool playfield images are correct, I am keen to try that long shot off the left flipper that ends up over the shooter lane. I like Gomez as his stuff is definitely different and this is a good thing when you have a few machines.

2003, 1995, 1998 anyone?

Even with it's issues BDK is a fine game

I hear you, but that is kind of my point too. Everyone has a short memory, and his more recent, less-well-received games are arguably held back by code primarily...

I like different, but I dislike clunk. Gomez has a lot of clunky designs in his portfolio over the last 15 years. His best-regarded stuff (that I like many of) is in the 1990s, and that was a long time ago.

Almost 20 years is plenty of time to get the funk out and make another hit game. He can't blame software forever.

Wrong...on Pinside you need to scream for something different until you get it. Then its the worse thing ever.

Avengers is a hot turd. Clunkfest extrodinaire. Code schmode. I can’t ever wash the taste of that one out of my mouth, and I see some similarities here.

I dunno. I credit Trudeau for trying different stuff EVERY time. Didn't work on WWE. Kind of worked on Mustang. Aside from the flipper gap, worked pretty well on Ghostbusters. All three are VERY different, so it's pretty amazing he got working designs almost starting from scratch with each. It CAN be done (and you probably don't even have to be a pedo to accomplish the same).

That is funny..! Yes, Pinside can be quite brutal and extremely negative towards some games.

Remember that the Beatles designer is a good software guy too. Surely he will help Lonnie out a lot on that one...

"Surely" and "a lot" is pretty serious speculation. Given Lonnie's abysmal track record, especially for polish, I'll watch on the sidelines.

That said, I'm really coming around on Dwight. Probably my second favorite rules guy behind Lyman now. Very different play on a Dwight joint, very strategic, but it's complementary to almost any other non-Dwight pin in a collection, which I'm really starting to appreciate.

Could you please speculate a bit more and speculate who you think would be the designer for the Beatles?

I don't even know if I give JT credit for trying diff'rent things because mostly his designs are horrible.

Dude made one good game in the modern era, Creature. Made many terrible games. Most overrated designer along with JPOP in pinball history.

Shitty designer, shitty person, I wish people would stop talking about him.

Stern DOES NOT schedule releases around pinball shows, Cons, events...they announce/reveal them when they are ready and are able to.

It's all part of their "let other manufacturers win pinball shows, we'll sell the most games" strategy.

I feel another "Dark night for Stern" thread coming up!

Still the funniest Pinside thread in history and a touchstone for anybody who feels the need to make a grand pronouncement about the state of the pinball industry following a pinball show!

Very few escaped with their dignity intact! Check those names behind the 361 (!!!!!) upvotes!

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/a-dark-night-for-stern

If Iron Maiden had been a turd, who knows. It wasn't though, so phew!

Dont think that would have made JJPOTC come out or include clips from the movies

The narrative was "Other manufacturers revealed tantalizing pie in the sky, Stern talked about Barcades - clearly this is a long-term disaster for them that will be difficult to recover from."

The narrative was laughably ridiculous at the time and looks even dumber now (if possible). Maiden or no Maiden.

Sure, but if things had continued like that I get the speculation.

This was written about @timebandit?? You must have the wrong guy... If there’s any negative feedback on “the net”(lol) about his products, it’s fake news.

At least he did something COMPLETELY different every time. No cookie cutter design, no mirrored layouts. They worked out less than half the time, but he managed the world under glass aesthetic better than almost any other designer. And I would take Ghostbusters Prem over Creature.

Personally? It's clear he's a zero or less, but as a designer he was unique.

No all time great layouts that are almost the same yet feel diff'rent from game to game. Randomly throwing shit at a wall to see if it sticks.

FFS. Wow a shitty wrastling game with a ring in it that sucks. Wow a match box car in the middle of the car game.
Truly breathtaking synergy

As soon as I saw the play field I said Gomez, Gomez, Gomez.....

I don't see this as an asset. 20 bad DIFFERENT designs are still 20 bad designs.

Steve Ritchie's games are good because they ALWAYS contain tons of Steve Ritchie-isms. Pat Lawlor games are good for the same reason. When these guys stray from the formula too much, you get WPT and NASCAR.

Innovation is the most pointlessly overrated and over-sought thing in pinball design.

And I don't know what the "world under glass athsetic" is but it must be nothing I need in a pinball machine based upon that track record.

Yet sometimes it DID stick. Creature, Congo, and Ghostbusters are very good. Bride of Pinbot 2.0 is a strong argument for his design also being good and the software being the problem there (that billion shot game wrecker).

I wouldn't automatically dismiss a game because of Gomez today, though 18 months ago I probably would have when BM66 was a shell of a game. It actually turned out to be a great game and continues to improve, though due to better code. I also understand that it was a rushed game, but Stern and mostly Lyman have made it right over time thus far. I also own Avengers and agree that it's a clunkfest, though me and one of my friends still love to play against each other on it for that very same random reason. It has very little flow so I think it levels the playing field a little bit between good and average players. Avengers and TF make me more skeptical of Lonnie coded games than Gomez designed games. I do prefer Borg designed games these past few years, but Gomez has his hits. Sopranos is still one of my favorites and LOTR and MB are awesome. So, I wouldn't automatically write off the game if he designed it and I liked the theme, but I would worry more about who is coding it, and play before I pay.

Lawlor is probably the most "innovative" designer. Look at TZ, RS, RCT, Ripley's, and Banzai Run for the unique. Trudeau, while a horrible person made a ton of FUN games in the 80's and into the 90's. He designed Gottlieb's best games of the time, when those guys were given a fraction of the time to design that the B/W guys were given. Genesis, Robowar, TX Sector, Excalibur were all great games. There was a period in the mid 80's where he designed 5 or so pins in ONE YEAR. Then later on Creature was great and say what you will about Flintstones, that game is a blast to shoot. He should have retired years ago anyway. He was well past his prime when working for Stern. I think Ghostbusters is a steaming pile of horseshit and Mustang is mediocre at best and I haven't played WWE. Wasn't Ghostbusters a bestseller though? Either way, people seem to judge his games on his pathetic personal conduct and it's hard not too, but he was a much better designer than some seem to want to give him credit for being.

Creech is an all time classic. Congo is a decent game & GB is the worst game that isn't WWE in the last 20 years.
BOP is a joke; It's a great sounding game but it ends there.

Talk aboot revisionist history.

Ghostbusters sold on theme alone.

I've always thought his games sucked and have always said it. Tim Arnold has been telling people for years that JT games don't earn.

it's goddamn 2018 can we drop the the whole more sales equal a good product please? This has nothing to do with him being a perv, his games just aren't that great.

I really like Alien Star, TX Sector, Mustang and GB Premium. Definitely some misses in there too, WWE comes to mind, but that is the cost of taking risks.

No kidding - before it became too expensive to buy WPC games, no one I know would touch the System 80/80B games with a ten foot pole, nevermind the Premiere games.

Now suddenly they're "classics"? Whatever.

I think Deadpool would be an awesome pinball, I wish one of pinball companies would make a Goonies Pinball

And Yeti art.

There’s a fine line between “different” design and bad design. Even differnt designs still need certain fundamental features that make pinball fun. Good geometry (ie satisfying shots), interaction, feedback and at least an illusion of control. Elwin nailed it by combining enough “different” with the fundamentals that make pinball fun. GB not so much - and let’s not start on the code.

Levi, tell me right now as a player, you think Alien Star, Robowar, and Congo are Shit. These are great games and you and TheLaw know they are.

I've always loved Judge Dredd too, one of my favs...

Alien Star a great game....really?

Ghostbuster's geometry is MILES ahead of the clunk in Batman'66 and look what Lyman did to save that over time. With better software, Ghostbusters can be even better.