Quoted from ForceFlow:Under the right light...this is what a WPC playfield with dimples can look like.
[quoted image]
Aren't dimples supposed to be from impacting the wood, but this is the insert. So is this poor clear or what?
Quoted from ForceFlow:Under the right light...this is what a WPC playfield with dimples can look like.
[quoted image]
Aren't dimples supposed to be from impacting the wood, but this is the insert. So is this poor clear or what?
Quoted from HighVoltage:Aren't dimples supposed to be from impacting the wood, but this is the insert. So is this poor clear or what?
There is a square of Mylar over that insert.
His Iron Maiden review is crazy. "Like it and fun to play, but not top 10 or maybe even 20." - rated 2.8/10. I honestly believe he does not know how the rating system works, lol.
Quoted from Matesamo:His Iron Maiden review is crazy. "Like it and fun to play, but not top 10 or maybe even 20." - rated 2.8/10. I honestly believe he does not know how the rating system works, lol.
Oh he damn well knows what he is doing.
He is reading these posts right now and his troll heart is beating with excitement to our reactions of his reviews.
Has anyone done any hardness testing on an older NOS playfield versus a newer one? I'm not trying to feed into anyone's conspiracy theories, but when I owned LOTR and TSPP, those playfields seemed to have much less dimpling on them compared to newer Stern games. My Metallica is very dimpled, even over the inserts. Does it bother me? Not really.
This may have been brought up before, but perhaps the decrease on allowable VOC's for coatings has increased the time it takes for the new clears to harden, or they don't harden to the point that the older solvent based clears do?
Edit: all examples were HUO.
Quoted from HighVoltage:Aren't dimples supposed to be from impacting the wood, but this is the insert. So is this poor clear or what?
Quoted from vid1900:There is a square of Mylar over that insert.
Quoted from Dewey68:Has anyone done any hardness testing on an older NOS playfield versus a newer one? I'm not trying to feed into anyone's conspiracy theories, but when I owned LOTR and TSPP, those playfields seemed to have much less dimpling on them compared to newer Stern games.
Yes, it's been done. Don't have the thread link right now, but LoTR was found to be harder. Every time this subject comes up, I go look at my LoTR (HUO) again and try to find dimples. I don't see any. After looking for a minute or two and finding just the right reflection, I can see the slightest of waviness in the white target reflection. There's definitely variance in how bad playfields dimple. I do have Stern Trek and GB which have the normal level of dimpling.
Quoted from pickleric:Read Wolfemaaan’s reviews. Everything is either a 10 or a 2. Some of the reviews are actually hilarious if you don’t take them seriously. It can be a bit problematic for the rating system as games with a small amount of reviews can be quite heavily and perhaps unfairly skewed due to Wolfemaaan’s critiques, but I have to admit they make for good laughs.
A buddy and I were joking the other day that we can’t wait for his JJP PotC review and guessing what it may be...
“So many lights and inserts, everything you hit does something. Too easy, that’s why noobs like it. 2.0”
My favorite line, "I just like watching the Nazi melt"
Quoted from HighVoltage:Yes, it's been done. Don't have the thread link right now, but LoTR was found to be harder. Every time this subject comes up, I go look at my LoTR (HUO) again and try to find dimples. I don't see any. After looking for a minute or two and finding just the right reflection, I can see the slightest of waviness in the white target reflection. There's definitely variance in how bad playfields dimple.
Found it, but it's installed playfields, and I guess it's a rebound test, not the technical hardness test vid is talking about?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/live-dimple-quest-the-ultimate-test#post-3963579
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/playfield-dimple-reality-check/page/4#post-3984595
Many others chimed in their LoTR doesn't dimple like other games.
Quoted from Dewey68:Has anyone done any hardness testing on an older NOS playfield versus a newer one?
Not yet.
The ONLY real way to test wood hardness is with a Janka testing rig.
No other testing has been adopted by the luthier or lumber industries.
I've offered to bring a Janka to Expo and test some of these "no dimple" playfields, but people would rather argue than do hard science.
Quoted from LoneStarPinball:My wife used to work for Petsmart, and after you got your dog groomed they asked you to call a number for a survey. when you did you were asked to rate several categories from 1 to 5. they did not tell the respondents this, but they considered anything not a 5 as a failure, which the manager of the salon had to answer for each and every one they got. My Brother still works at a GMC dealership that does the same surveys.
I'm guessing wolfemaaan has spent too long working retail
Nothing wrong with striving for excellence...
I can't believe we are really doing this again. I don't care how hard your wood is (oh my)...steel is going to dent it, and no clearcoat is going to change that. I swear this is as bad as the flat Earth crap, LOL!
on the older playfields the lighting made the wood get hot. [heat treat] that made the wood harder in a shorter time. if you ever tried to put a nail in a old 2x4
it gets hard. the LED lighting dos not put out heat.and new sterns play faster also
Quoted from pickleric:Oh he damn well knows what he is doing.
He is reading these posts right now and his troll heart is beating with excitement to our reactions of his reviews.
But too scared to come back?
Quoted from poppapin:Nothing wrong with striving for excellence...
No nothing at all, what this ends up causing however is that the employees end up coaching the customers, and only pointing out the survey to ones they know will answer the way they want, and the store managers and district mangers don't care, because they get good surveys, and that becomes the metric of their success, but not a true measurement of it.
Quoted from LoneStarPinball:No nothing at all, what this ends up causing however is that the employees end up coaching the customers, and only pointing out the survey to ones they know will answer the way they want, and the store managers and district mangers don't care, because they get good surveys, and that becomes the metric of their success, but not a true measurement of it.
Yes the system can be played, I know, I worked the system to my advantage when I worked in field service. What the manager's are supposed to do is follow up on questionable reviews to see what can be done to improve, but sometimes also turned into more sales opportunities for the company.
Quoted from Yoko2una:@OP this is an AFMr from CGC, about a month after being put on location. Wanna start a same thread for CGC too, or just admit this is par for the course?
Its probably ok when its CGC or Spooky or JJP I mean all u have to do is read the POTC JJP threads to see how forgiving pinsiders can be but this site is a Stern basher first and foremost.
Quoted from modfather:He rated a Ghostbusters Premium a 1. Really ?? That game is pretty great , I know cuz I own one...lol
I would have given it a .5 but Pinside doesn’t go that low. You didn’t think my Earl Shieb number was good? Man no respect
Quoted from Shapeshifter:But too scared to come back?
Don’t call it a comeback, I’ve been here for years
Quoted from wolfemaaan:I would have given it a .5 but Pinside doesn’t go that low.
It was a horrible game
Quoted from wolfemaaan:I would have given it a .5 but Pinside doesn’t go that low. You didn’t think my Earl Shieb number was good? Man no respect
It's not our fault you suck at hard games.
Quoted from Hazoff:Its probably ok when its CGC or Spooky or JJP I mean all u have to do is read the POTC JJP threads to see how forgiving pinsiders can be but this site is a Stern basher first and foremost.
Hey man, Spooky PF's don't dimple!!!
Quoted from Mbecker:Yup - ball dimples. Par for the course
How does a brand new pin get dimples? I didn’t see dimples on Alice Cooper which just came out. You sell used cars?
Quoted from wolfemaaan:How does a brand new pin get dimples?
The ball making contact with the surface of the playfied.
Quoted from Bearcat:My favorite line, "I just like watching the Nazi melt"
Thanks! I pull out the gems don’t I?
Quoted from GorillaBiscuits:Wayyyyy better topic! I scooped one up at the release party last week... they blasted through the 7” in front of maybe 40 people, it ruled. I didn’t see any dimpling on the vinyl either
LUCKY SOB! I am on the wrong coast, I bet that was amazing!
Quoted from practicalsteve:LUCKY SOB! I am on the wrong coast, I bet that was amazing!
You know you are welcome on either coast and even in the middle! I hope all is well out in Cali.
Brad
I'm somewhat of a newbie, but my routed BK2K has zero dimples while my brand-new AFMr has tons of dimples. Does it bother me? Not really. I get a metric f-ton of airballs in AFM, which is part of the fun, while I rarely get them in BK2K. The mylar probably helped a little bit too, and maybe the playfield has flattened out from thousands of plays.
As long as it doesn't affect gameplay, it doesn't matter.
Quoted from Jediturtle:I swear this is as bad as the flat Earth crap
Wait, wait! Are you saying the Earth isn't flat?
Modern lighting also makes dimples stand out.
The only way you prevent dimples is to not play the machine. That kind of defeats the purpose of owning the game though.
All I know is that crap won't happen with a deeproot machine. Remember a sledgehammer will be put to playfield and if it make a mark it won't ship.
Quoted from CNKay:All I know is that crap won't happen with a deeproot machine. Remember a sledgehammer will be put to playfield and if it make a mark it won't ship.
Could be a prop foam sledge hammer for all we know
If that's really 'normal' then I would never buy one. I have 30 year old machines that don't have anything like that on them, and they were all on routes. I respect some of the more experienced peoples opinions, but I feel that's a bit too forgiving for something you are dropping so much cash on and are hardly even broken in. This shouldn't be happening to that degree with only 100-300 plays on it.
Quoted from Zablon:I have 30 year old machines that don't have anything like that on them
30-year-old machines have had 30 years and tens of thousands of plays for the dimpling to even out.
The photos you're seeing of new games are, what, weeks old with a couple hundred plays at most?
Quoted from ForceFlow:30-year-old machines have had 30 years and tens of thousands of plays for the dimpling to even out.
The photos you're seeing of new games are, what, weeks old with a couple hundred plays at most?
That doesn't even sound plausible. Even with 1000's of plays much of the play areas would be uneven because certain areas get more wear than others. They are not miraculously going to be even from the ball rolling on it. You would see large dimples where balls dropped over and over smooth out but still sit lower than the rest of the pf. I get that some could be expected in certain areas...but that looks horrible.
Quoted from Zablon:That doesn't even sound plausible. Even with 1000's of plays much of the play areas would be uneven because certain areas get more wear than others. They are not miraculously going to be even from the ball rolling on it. You would see large dimples where balls dropped over and over smooth out but still sit lower than the rest of the pf.
Take a look at the photo I posted of the AFM earlier.
The area where balls don't go is perfectly smooth. The areas the balls can access are uneven, but not by very much. Wood can only compress so much, so dimples aren't very deep. 1mm at most, maybe?
Yes, some of the issue could be (and probably is) the materials being used today, or possibly the newness of the material (as in the wood not being completely dried, or the clear not being fully cured). But you still have dimpling either way, and it eventually evens out. Most of the time it isn't even noticeable because the dimples are shallow and the light has to hit them just right to reveal them.
This is not the first thread about this issue.
What I'd like to see is someone take a modern playfield and add some sort of a cyclical mechanism that continuously drops and rolls balls across the playfield and measure how long it takes for everything to even out.
To me that looks bad for a pretty much brand new game. People are showing pics of dimpling form much older games, like the comet Vid posted, but you can't compare the two because one is new and the other probably has thousands of plays on it. I would expect dimpling, but not crazy like that. Maybe its just the magnification, lighting or angle that makes it look that bad?
Not taking either side as I do not want to battle it out, but how many games are you guys playing when these dimples show up? Just wondering if I will encounter them at some point in games I have cleared myself. So far I have not had this problem, thankfully.
Quoted from Squeakman:To me that looks bad for a pretty much brand new game. People are showing pics of dimpling form much older games, like the comet Vid posted, but you can't compare the two because one is new and the other probably has thousands of plays on it. I would expect dimpling, but not crazy like that. Maybe its just the magnification, lighting or angle that makes it look that bad?
Because over time, the dimples will become so numerous that the playfield will begin to "flatten" out. Check out this WCS 94. It's a reimport that probably has tens of thousands of plays. From a distance, it looks smooth. When you look up close, you can see all kinds of dimples. Look at the reflection in the purple section of the closeup.
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