(Topic ID: 323347)

(UPDATE: Scam??!!) Dead microwave oven? Don't discard it just yet!

By DanQverymuch

1 year ago


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    #1 1 year ago

    The other day my breakfast making routine was rudely interrupted by my finding the microwave oven to be completely dead. No clock, no light, nothing. I figured the (dedicated) breaker must have tripped for some reason, so I run down to the basement and sure enough the breaker is off. I flip it back on and it doesn’t trip again, so I should be all set, right?

    Not so fast. The microwave is STILL dead! Outlet indeed has power. Now what? No breaker on the back of the microwave itself...

    A little googling clues me in that there's a fuse inside the microwave. How could that blow too if the breaker tripped? Oh well, pop the cover, fuse is easy enough to find. Cripes, it's rated 20A at 250V (=5000W)! The damn circuit breaker is only 15A at 120V (1800W)! But indeed the fuse tests as blown, open. Huh.

    Back to the basement to dig around for a fuse. I figure with all the fuses I have from owning pins, and picking up assortments of fuses at thrift stores and the like as a result, there's a good chance I have one lying around. Ah, there's a 20 amper, but uh-oh, it says only 120V...

    Further digging proves fruitless, so I figured I'd try the 120V fuse. What's the worst that could happen, it blows again? But lo and behold, it did the trick and the oven is still working fine a week later.

    So why did it blow and my circuit breaker trip in the first place?

    Interestingly, it turns out that in most (all?) microwaves, the door interlock has a safety feature which will DELIBERATELY short out the 120V hot lead to ground (!) if it thinks the oven is running while the door is not latched.

    When the kid gets up I ask her about it and she claims to have no knowledge of the oven having died. I guess she must have popped the door before it was done running (which I have done myself countless times) and the interlock switches must have done a funny bounce and performed that short, and she just didn't notice the light had gone out. Guess I'll stop popping the door myself without stopping the oven first from now on.

    This makes three times I have repaired this oven! New turntable belt, new internal light, and now the fuse. Nice not having to buy whole new appliances!

    -1
    #2 1 year ago

    get rid of that thing, the radiation is killing you

    #3 1 year ago

    Feels good, doesn't it! I fixed an expensive commercial oven after 2 different techs said it needed a NLA board.

    It had a thermal fuse in the control panel that was shorted after I used a large stock pot that overhung the stove top.

    I figured it out by reading the schematics.

    Saved myself about $8K so I went out and bought a $7K machine.

    Now my air compressor just went out and need to dig into that one.

    #4 1 year ago

    Had a similar issue with an RV microwave which is basically the same as a home unit. Opened it up and found the fuse blown, figured I'd try another fuse with a 50% chance it would blow right away. Well it did! Then I found out the main capacitor was bad. $15 and another fuse later and it worked as new again with a new capacitor.

    12
    #5 1 year ago
    Quoted from mcuzz:

    get rid of that thing, the radiation is killing you

    The wavelength of microwaves is too long and weak to cause damage to your cells.

    3D1E1AF5-055E-4580-A794-F4EB6BCBC418.jpeg3D1E1AF5-055E-4580-A794-F4EB6BCBC418.jpeg

    Good to know about the door latch! We have an extremely old microwave, like literally one of the very first ones sold commercially, and it doesn’t have a stop button, it uses the door latch as the shutoff-switch.
    Clever design and they should have kept it. Probably removed because people might fiddle around and jam stuff in to make it work if you break the door.

    #6 1 year ago
    Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

    The wavelength of microwaves is too long and weak to cause damage to your cells.

    That and the fact that the faraday cage that EVERY microwave oven has traps all those microwaves(and their radiation) inside. If it didn't, you couldn't stand anywhere near one and not have parts of you burn or even explode(like your eyeballs).

    #7 1 year ago

    My microwave broke has a repairman come and tell me it was the magnatron and it was cost prohibitive to fix it. It was in a cabinet cutout and I was having a hard time finding something that would fit. I bought a magnatron and watched some videos on how to replace it. It was a success and has been working ever since. That said, I am not nearly as technically inclined as others, but felt that I could tackle the job.

    #8 1 year ago

    Mine kept blowing fuses. I replaced the capacitor. Still would blow about once a week. I ended up buying a new microwave.
    But I did fix my AC unit with a new capacitor recently, so it pays to do home repair.

    #9 1 year ago
    Quoted from DanQverymuch:

    fuse is easy enough to find. Cripes, it's rated 20A at 250V (=5000W)! The damn circuit breaker is only 15A at 120V (1800W)

    Fuses don't have power ratings. It is the amperage that causes them to blow. The voltage rating is for the maximum voltage, that the fuse still can break. With too high voltage, the fuse might arc and not break the circuit reliably. It is quite safe to use a fuse rated to your line voltage.

    #10 1 year ago

    When I read the title of this thread I thought you were running a charity event for the Stern lunchroom upgrade.

    #11 1 year ago
    Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

    The wavelength of microwaves is too long and weak to cause damage to your cells.
    [quoted image]
    Good to know about the door latch! We have an extremely old microwave, like literally one of the very first ones sold commercially, and it doesn’t have a stop button, it uses the door latch as the shutoff-switch.
    Clever design and they should have kept it. Probably removed because people might fiddle around and jam stuff in to make it work if you break the door.

    Quoted from mcuzz:

    get rid of that thing, the radiation is killing you

    Thanks for posting the EM spectrum photo. I wish more people had a basic grasp of this, I work in tech and have to explain every day why certain everyday devices aren't causing people harm. It gets exhausting!

    #12 1 year ago

    My old microwave wasn't so lucky.

    I popped breakfast in it. Hit start. Inside it looked and sounded like arc welding. Fortunately didn't blow any fuses or breakers.

    Off to microwave heaven it went.

    LTG : )

    #13 1 year ago
    Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

    The wavelength of microwaves is too long and weak to cause damage to your cells.
    [quoted image]
    Good to know about the door latch! We have an extremely old microwave, like literally one of the very first ones sold commercially, and it doesn’t have a stop button, it uses the door latch as the shutoff-switch.
    Clever design and they should have kept it. Probably removed because people might fiddle around and jam stuff in to make it work if you break the door.

    What about cell phones?

    #15 1 year ago

    Cell phones and Wi-Fi networks are about the same or lower frequency than microwave ovens. And about 1/1000 or less of the power.

    #16 1 year ago
    Quoted from Methos:

    What about cell phones?

    Dangerous to your health.
    You could get carpal tunnel or strain your neck!

    Quoted from PocketHoleshot:

    Thanks for posting the EM spectrum photo. I wish more people had a basic grasp of this, I work in tech and have to explain every day why certain everyday devices aren't causing people harm. It gets exhausting!

    I once met a woman who claimed to be allergic to WiFi.
    100% scouts honor, this lady genuinely claimed it was like a food allergy and that exposure to WiFi would cause her to break out in hives and such...

    Oh, but she owned a cell phone, that was fine

    #17 1 year ago
    Quoted from Tuukka:

    Fuses don't have power ratings. It is the amperage that causes them to blow. The voltage rating is for the maximum voltage...

    You are of course correct, and it also explains why the new fuse wouldn't just blow. I was still half asleep when I was making breakfast, and I described my foggy thought process at the time, for dramatic effect. Yeah, that's the ticket!

    #18 1 year ago

    I fix every thing I can in my house. My microwave was the exception. Mine also blew a fuse, which I replaced. After replacing it, the microwave always made a humming sound. Oddly, it still worked. But something wasn't right, so I replaced it.

    But, some success stories.

    I replaced the capacitor on my home air conditioner, back in business.

    My HVAC quit working once. The AC unit was on, but the furnace blower wasn't blowing. Pulled the furnace board and found a cold solder joint on the blower relay. It was a very old furnace, almost 100% a repair person would want to replace the entire unit.

    A few weekends ago, I fixed a family members car. His key would not turn back to "off". There's a "park switch" that inhibits you from turning the key back to off if the car thinks it's not in park. I pulled the gear shifter apart and found that switch. Ironically, it's the same cherry micro switch used in so many pinball machines. I robbed one from the pinball stash and it fixed the issue. Never thought I'd be using pinball parts in a car, lol.

    Wife's Ford Fusion's HVAC blower only on certain levels. Found a burned up molex-style connector. I bypassed the connector with soldered connections and heat shrink tubing. Never had that problem again.

    Garage door opener stopped working. Yet another cold solder joint.

    I inherited an old plasma TV that was dead. Replaced a chip that was a known issue for the model and poof! I had a "free" plasma TV.

    Of course, that's aside from the dozens of pinball machines that I've bought dead and revived....

    I have a shirt that says "No, I will not fix your computer" that I wear to family functions. I'm tempted to modify it so it says "No, I will not fix your stuff". For some reason, the family has nominated me to be the fix it guy....

    #19 1 year ago

    My wife fixed our microwave last year. Been married 21 years, and she still constantly surprises me.

    #20 1 year ago
    Quoted from PinJim:

    I fix every thing I can in my house. My microwave was the exception. Mine also blew a fuse, which I replaced. After replacing it, the microwave always made a humming sound. Oddly, it still worked. But something wasn't right, so I replaced it.
    But, some success stories.
    I replaced the capacitor on my home air conditioner, back in business.
    My HVAC quit working once. The AC unit was on, but the furnace blower wasn't blowing. Pulled the furnace board and found a cold solder joint on the blower relay. It was a very old furnace, almost 100% a repair person would want to replace the entire unit.
    A few weekends ago, I fixed a family members car. His key would not turn back to "off". There's a "park switch" that inhibits you from turning the key back to off if the car thinks it's not in park. I pulled the gear shifter apart and found that switch. Ironically, it's the same cherry micro switch used in so many pinball machines. I robbed one from the pinball stash and it fixed the issue. Never thought I'd be using pinball parts in a car, lol.
    Wife's Ford Fusion's HVAC blower only on certain levels. Found a burned up molex-style connector. I bypassed the connector with soldered connections and heat shrink tubing. Never had that problem again.
    Garage door opener stopped working. Yet another cold solder joint.
    I inherited an old plasma TV that was dead. Replaced a chip that was a known issue for the model and poof! I had a "free" plasma TV.
    Of course, that's aside from the dozens of pinball machines that I've bought dead and revived....
    I have a shirt that says "No, I will not fix your computer" that I wear to family functions. I'm tempted to modify it so it says "No, I will not fix your stuff". For some reason, the family has nominated me to be the fix it guy....

    Our dishwasher broke recently, had the service guy booked in the following week and had a go at fixing it myself on the weekend before. Found one of the drain valves was clogged, and guess what activated the valve? Solenoids. Was an easy fix.

    My dad taught me lots of practical stuff when I was growing up, but I’ve learnt so much from pinball, particularly electronics. Invaluable skills, especially when you realise most home appliances are all really similar and pinball machines are more complex than most.

    #21 1 year ago
    Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

    I once met a woman who claimed to be allergic to WiFi.
    100% scouts honor, this lady genuinely claimed it was like a food allergy and that exposure to WiFi would cause her to break out in hives and such...
    Oh, but she owned a cell phone, that was fine

    Oh I believe you 100% The lack of basic scientific understanding in society astounds me daily. Especially when so many people rely on these technologies. What's even more frustrating is the info is at their fingertips yet goes ignored or misunderstood so often!

    I love hearing all the repair stories though. I try to fix whatever I can when possible rather than buy more stuff or tossing it in the trash. I'm glad pinball repair crosses over into so many other aspects of life as well.

    #22 1 year ago
    Quoted from PinJim:

    My HVAC quit working once. The AC unit was on, but the furnace blower wasn't blowing. Pulled the furnace board and found a cold solder joint on the blower relay. It was a very old furnace, almost 100% a repair person would want to replace the entire unit.

    I have fixed my furnace twice along these lines. Both times a relay trace had gotten so hot as to melt the solder and disconnect, one time it was the blower relay and the other was the igniter relay. The first time was after a furnace repairman had already charged me $100 to replace a vacuum sensor (that wasn't bad) and the jostling must have made it work once so he left, whereupon the problem returned.

    There is something uniquely satisfying about performing your own board-level repair, knowing a professional "repairman" would have said we had to replace the entire board (for an arm and a leg, no doubt), or even tried to talk me into replacing the entire furnace.

    When I do get around to replacing the unit, I'm thinking heat pump.

    #23 1 year ago
    Quoted from DanQverymuch:

    I have fixed my furnace twice along these lines. Both times a relay trace had gotten so hot as to melt the solder and disconnect, one time it was the blower relay and the other was the igniter relay. The first time was after a furnace repairman had already charged me $100 to replace a vacuum sensor (that wasn't bad) and the jostling must have made it work once so he left, whereupon the problem returned.
    There is something uniquely satisfying about performing your own board-level repair, knowing a professional "repairman" would have said we had to replace the entire board (for an arm and a leg, no doubt), or even tried to talk me into replacing the entire furnace.
    When I do get around to replacing the unit, I'm thinking heat pump.

    That's awesome, sounds like we think alike.

    I also "shop" my furnace on my own. We got a free furnace inspection as part of a water line replacement in our house. The tech told the wife "man, you furnace is very clean!". Needless to say, that made me very happy.

    I'm tempted to replace the furnace fan capacitor, as it's vintage at this point. And if it fails in the winter, I have a big problem.

    #24 1 year ago
    Quoted from PinJim:

    I have a shirt that says "No, I will not fix your computer" that I wear to family functions.

    yeah (resized).jpgyeah (resized).jpg

    #25 1 year ago

    I always try to fix anything around the house that breaks- I figure if it’s already broken and not working, it can’t get any worse.

    I also think that since it went together somehow, it has to come apart the same way it went together. I enjoy figuring out how to take something apart, then the bonus if finding and fixing the problem.

    A heat gun is a good thing to have for those “sealed” devices.

    #26 1 year ago

    I fix what I can and have over the years fixed the washer/dryer multiple times (bad board, thermal switches, etc.), furnace and zone dampers, cars (batteries, fuses, etc.) televisions (capacitor) and lots of other things. I pretty much do all the home repair including plumbing/electrical/gas.

    However, as I have grown older and more financially secure, there are some things I just hire out or replace, usually after doing the trouble shooting.

    Case in point - water heater went out last year when we had one daughter and guest in the house, I had major work commitments and no hot water for three women. We have a marathon water heater that is connected to our geothermal and a replacement is not available locally but through a wholesale company we use at work, so I got on the road at 4:30 to meet them as they opened at 7 to get back, drop it off and have time to get to work for a 10:00 must be at meeting. Had a good local plumber hook it up who arrived just after I dropped the tank off at the house. Money well spent, less than 24 hours without hot water. Spent over six months trying to get Rheem to honor their "lifetime" warranty, which they finally did but that is another story.

    Other issue was a linear compressor on the LG refrigerator, which I bought because it had a 10-year warranty. I did the trouble shooting and suspected the compressor but had to have a repairman come in under the warranty, they said it was the board. I disagreed but bought a replacement board, and guess what - it was the compressor. Returned the board and opened a claim with LG. This took about a year, too long to wait for a settlement, so bought a new fridge from the scratch dent store with one small visible ding - about 1/2 off and it works great. Finally got the LG settlement, so only about $400 cost when all said and done (other than what we spent on the LG in the first place).

    Oh, I don't do oil changes anymore except the boat engine. Because we have a trusted place that is convenient and I just don't like doing them. Just because you can doesn't mean you always need to.

    #27 1 year ago
    Quoted from PinJim:

    That's awesome, sounds like we think alike.
    I also "shop" my furnace on my own. We got a free furnace inspection as part of a water line replacement in our house. The tech told the wife "man, you furnace is very clean!". Needless to say, that made me very happy.
    I'm tempted to replace the furnace fan capacitor, as it's vintage at this point. And if it fails in the winter, I have a big problem.

    Just buy the capacitor and keep in on-hand. No need to replace it now, but if you have one ready to go it will be a pretty quick fix. Your current one might last 5-10 more years, who knows.

    It's always a good idea to have spare capacitors on hand for the blower motor, and for the outdoor compressor/fan unit. I also keep a spare ignitor on-hand but I haven't needed it (yet).

    1 month later
    #29 1 year ago

    Okay, guys, this is getting weird.

    Here we are a little over a month later, and my microwave's fuse has blown again, and the circuit's breaker tripped again as well. What's more, this time I am pretty sure no one was even using the damned thing when it happened!

    I am tempted to install a pushbutton circuit breaker into the microwave in lieu of the fuse. That way I wouldn't have to pull it out and open it up every time it acts up... Does anyone here know of any reason that would be a bad idea?

    I keep thinking it must be one of the door interlock switches causing this. I wonder whether I'd have any trouble sourcing a replacement. I suppose I could just noodle out how it works and defeat it. Or, if I really wanted to live dangerously, I could simply jumper the fuse and rely on the outlet's breaker alone. It is on a dedicated breaker, being a built-in.

    Any thoughts?

    #30 1 year ago

    I had a GE microwave that did the same thing. It was replaced with a GE that did it also after a while. I replaced fuses for a while and a cap then just bought an off brand (Smad) for less that $150.

    #31 1 year ago

    Yes, it becomes tiresome having extra projects foisted upon you, especially when you already have plenty of things you should be doing!

    #32 1 year ago

    Final update: I found a crispy, loose spade terminal on the main transformer primary, and a questionably-run wire bundle rubbing on a grounded lug, with some insulation damage which didn't look like enough to matter but who knows? So after addressing those issues, I decided to stop at Home Depot and pay too much for a two pack of fuses because I was in the area, so I could see if maybe one of those tweaks made the difference. But no, the first fuse sacrificed itself real quick, and I saw it happen this time, finally: I watched it go dead as I simply opened the door, without the unit even running!

    Now, I'm all for safety features, but this is overkill. During this saga, I learned how the "monitor switch" is supposed to prevent the oven from running with the door open, via the rather hamfisted method of deliberately shorting the 120VAC input and blowing the fuse if it "thinks" the oven is running with the door open. Indeed, the schematics I could find (for other models, no luck finding my particular model) usually included the "run" relay in the loop, so that the "monitor" (door open) switch would only short the input if the unit was running at the time.

    But, as I said, mine was not running when I opened the door and it blew, so either my unit was miswired, or somewhere along the line the manufacturer decided this could be an easy way to cause more failures and sell more microwaves.

    Now, I get that time will shrink plastics to some degree and that use will cause wear, and these things can cause the interlock switches to eventually misbehave. However, what difference does that make if the magnetron is not energized?

    Some comments I read showed some fuses blowing when opening the door while running, which sounds a bit more reasonable, but I still say it's overkill. Maybe these crazy interlock configurations are holdovers from when microwave ovens were new and scary, but now I say they are convenient manifestations of planned obsolescence.

    Even without a monitor switch, there are one or two other switches that indicate the damn door is closed, and if they aren't closed, power cannot get to the magnetron. Sure, sure, I suppose they could (both?) fail and stay closed when the door is not. Funny thing, though: I bet I could tell if the oven was running with the door open!

    And so, I am comfortable with the fact that I have now disconnected the monitor switch, so no more shorting out of the AC input will be forthcoming, the oven is working like a charm, and I am done buying fuses. I have no fear that I will ever be so dense as to not realize it is somehow running with the door open, and even if it did, the "radiation" is not to be feared and might cause a warming effect, like it did for the guy who originally discovered the phenomenon when a chocolate bar in his shirt pocket melted!

    I do still have some questions for the manufacturers, though: Why wire it so the fuse blows if it's not even running? Why not give it a circuit breaker instead of a fuse? Do you even care that your tolerances are so tight that the slightest wear on the interlock mech renders the unit useless? Can you not think of a better way of ensuring the door is closed? Is it all a way to sell more ovens?

    I smell a possible class action suit!

    #33 1 year ago

    Replacing cheap consumer electronics with new makes more time for fixing pinball.

    #34 1 year ago

    Who said it was cheap? And repairing consumer electronics (for a few bucks!) rather than replacing them leaves more MONEY for fixing pinball!

    Hell, I spent more time typing it up for Pinside than I did with the repair.

    But if hundreds of dollars is "cheap" to you, feel free to buy me a new microwave!

    #35 1 year ago
    Quoted from DanQverymuch:

    Who said it was cheap? And repairing consumer electronics (for a few bucks!) rather than replacing them leaves more MONEY for fixing pinball!

    I gave my old microwave to one of my crews that needed one for their break room and replaced it with a really good inverter model (yes they really are better, especially reheating) for $197 from Amazon. $120 would have bought me something comparable to what we had (1.1 cubic feet, 1,000 watts).

    I get replacing a blown fuse, however would draw the line there. I would not disable any safety switches as the diminutive cost of replacing a microwave, especially one that already is depreciated is not worth a kitchen fire or microwave burns. The inverter model uses about 17-20% less energy too, so that is nice.

    samsung-microwave_34093 (resized).jpgsamsung-microwave_34093 (resized).jpg
    #36 1 year ago

    Nice irrelevant pic! Had that person disconnected their monitor switch, I wonder?

    I am satisfied I have put enough thought into this to understand what is going on, and proud to have prevented a barely broken unit from taking up space in a landfill. But sure, "uhhh, don't mess with safety switches," staying ignorant, tossing an otherwise fine unit and spending more money is a valid option, I guess.

    I could have farted around replacing all the switches and blowing more fuses when the culprit was miniscule door mech wear.

    I'm sorry, but this is like if your car's engine got disabled, requiring a mechanic, if you started the car without putting on your seat belt first. That would be ridiculous! (How's that for a novel cargument?)

    Or would it? Scads of unbelted people die in car wrecks, my wife included, sadly. Cars are way more dangerous! But "radiation" scary, right?

    At any rate, my questions above for the manufacturers are valid, regardless.

    #37 1 year ago

    I am very sorry about your wife. My thoughts are with you.

    #38 1 year ago
    Quoted from ReadyPO:

    I am very sorry about your wife. My thoughts are with you.

    Thanks. It was clear back in Feb 2010, but it does still hurt, probably even more than I allow myself to realize.

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