Dead Flipper - No Power

Hi Guys-

Sorry for asking such a common technical question. But I admit it and I am a noob. Been trying to figure this out for a week.

I have replaced the EOS switch on the flipper. It was corroded and pitted. Noticed that the leaf switch on the button was broke, replaced, nothing yet. Tested the coils with my multimetter and getting the same readings on both. I keep reading about fuses. Is there a fuse that controls the each flipper? Seems like there is juice getting to the flipper when I push the button, ask my finger about that one. LOL - My schematic reading, well I have none.

Its apparent the flipper was worked on before. Some screws are missing and a different return spring is installed. I can take pics if needed.

Anyone willing to help a brother out? ANyone around the Cleveland/Brunswick area? =)

I more of a IT computer guy that really loves Pinball but suck at fixing them. Dude by me wants $85 an hour to come help me. =( - Maybe I just gut this Black Pyramid and make my Hyperpin. I just want to play.

Thanks for listening,
Dan

#2 11 years ago

GLM

ovfdfireman

Pinball Pro

12y 115K 4,915

Dan,

We can help, but the first step is to find out which game you are working on? Also yes depending on the game there is likely a fuse for that flipper, also a diode which could have failed. Le us know

#3 11 years ago

DLS

opeth

Inactive member

Thanks You Fireman... My kids thank you too. =)

THe machine is a Bally's Black Pyramid. I should have known better for not listing the machine.

I also ran the self diagnostics on the machine and seems everything looks good and passed but this one dang flipper.

Untill I can really play the pin I wont really know.

#4 11 years ago

DLS

opeth

Inactive member

Did another visual of the underside of the playfield. Everything looks good. Dont see any frayed wires.

The pin is in really good shape. I understand this doens't mean much. Does anyone know the location of a possible fuse that controls the left flipper? If there is one?

#5 11 years ago

DLS

opeth

Inactive member

#6 11 years ago

DLS

opeth

Inactive member

Anyone...?

#7 11 years ago

DAV

wayout440

Pinside member

Hi Dan,

Looking at the schematics on IPDB, there is only one fuse (1A SB) that supplies both flippers. Each flipper coil should be getting about +43VDC, the power daisy chained from one flipper coil to the other. Should be a solid brown wire for the supply side of the flipper coils if the games wiring is original. Check for this power first.

Left flipper trigger wire off the solenoid is a solid green (on anode side of the coils diodes) comes from the SDB board in the backbox connector J1 pin 8 (right flipper pin 9). Switch trigger goes from the cabinet switch(blue solid wire) to the SDB J2 pin 2 (right flipper is pin 1). The SDB provides nothing more than a flipper enable relay that enables the flippers. Hopefully armed with this information you might be able to figure out what is going on.

I am also in the Cleveland area so if we can't work this out through a couple of posts online I might be able to help.

#8 11 years ago

DLS

opeth

Inactive member

Thank you for taking the time out of your day to respond wayout. THe last few days I been reading up on how to read schematics and using my multi meter.

This will definately help me. Also I can maybe try to cross reference the schematic with the info you provided and give me a little practice on how to read them.

I see you are in Berea? I'll bring over a 12 pack for you and we can play some pinball.. =)

#9 11 years ago

DAV

wayout440

Pinside member

Yes I am in Berea. Give it ago, this one shouldn't be all that difficult. If you end up pulling your hair out just give me a shout - I like beer

#10 11 years ago

DLS

opeth

Inactive member

Beer is good.

Im going to check the stuff you mentioned this weekend. I know it shouldn't be too hard but this is pretty new too me.

Here is a pic of it..

photo.JPG

#11 11 years ago

DLS

opeth

Inactive member

So after watching some more videos on multimeter reading, I re-checked the 2 coils again.

Found a video on testing pinball coils and it mention that to set it to OHM and each coil should read about 3.8.

Right side that works measure 3.8
Left side that doesnt work 22.0

To the store tomorrow for a coil? I hope this is it.

#12 11 years ago

DAV

wayout440

Pinside member

Probably, but if it turns out not to be it the worst you end up with is a spare coil and you've eliminated the coil as a contributor. I usually order my coils online so I don't know what store you plan on getting a pinball coil from.

Looking at the pic, when you resolder those clip those wires, strip them and put them through the coil lug holes and wrap them tight with no fray before soldering. You want a tight mechanical joint as well as electrical and no stray pieces of wire. Don't forget to check the diodes orientation on the replacement coil so that you get the wires in the right locations.

#13 11 years ago

TOX

ChrisHibler

Not knowing exactly how you measured that resistance, it's tough to say.

Let's do this...

Remove ball from game.
Raise PF...prop up with prop stick.
Game on.
DMM set to DC volts (if you don't have an auto-ranging meter, set it to expect <200 volts DC).
Black lead tucked under ground braid in cabinet.
Red lead on each flipper coil lug, one at a time.
Your DMM should read about 43VDC on every coil lug.

Now...game off.
DMM set to resistance (ohms or the omega symbol)
Insert a piece of paper between the flipper coil EOS switch contacts.
Black lead on flipper coil center lug.
Red lead on flanking lugs, one at a time.
Record resistance for both lugs, on both flippers.
Report back.

Don't even think of gutting that game...this is a simple problem.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#14 11 years ago

DLS

opeth

Inactive member

@Wayside- The pinball shoppe in North Olmsted is where I been getting my parts. ALready bought 2 EOS switches from him and he mentioned he has coils. Was definately going to redo the wiring. It looks like someone worked on that side before and I thought he did a pretty crappy job soldering. LOL

@Chris - Thanks for the tips. I will try what you mentioned. Im still trying to understand the verbage as well. THis is really making me pull my hair out! LOL

#15 11 years ago

GLM

ovfdfireman

Pinball Pro

12y 115K 4,915

Sorry lost the thread, looks like you are on the right track. I have actually found a bad solder joint to be an issue (when it tests right) or as mentioned above a break in a daisy chain can be an issue

#16 11 years ago

FRX

Frax

Pinside member

Conyers, GA

12y 103K 16,662 2 9

Just a dumb additional statement..... Capt. Obvious away!!!! Check the plastic linkage on the flipper mech between the pawl and the plunger. I know it sounds stupid, but I just had a DE Time Machine kill the flippers from one breaking in half then shorting something and blowing a fuse. If it's just one flipper maybe you got lucky and have the same situation...minus the short.

#17 11 years ago

DLS

opeth

Inactive member

Quoted from ChrisHibler:
Not knowing exactly how you measured that resistance, it's tough to say.
Let's do this...
Remove ball from game.
Raise PF...prop up with prop stick.
Game on.
DMM set to DC volts (if you don't have an auto-ranging meter, set it to expect <200 volts DC).
Black lead tucked under ground braid in cabinet.
Red lead on each flipper coil lug, one at a time.
Your DMM should read about 43VDC on every coil lug.

Not sure if I did this right. Im getting around 37.5 - 37.9 here.

Quoted from ChrisHibler:
Now...game off.
DMM set to resistance (ohms or the omega symbol)
Insert a piece of paper between the flipper coil EOS switch contacts.
Black lead on flipper coil center lug.
Red lead on flanking lugs, one at a time.
Record resistance for both lugs, on both flippers.
Report back.

Right Flank reads 298 or .2 - I have a manual MM, I know
Left Flank reads 000 - .2

Again, Not sure If I did this right. This is really challenging my brain to think. LOL

Quoted from ChrisHibler:
Don't even think of gutting that game...this is a simple problem.

Im trying not to think about it. I really dont want to. =)

I was playing with the SDB and I unplugged some of the jumpers. Put them back in and then my good flipper stopped working? I was like WTF? Moved them around slightly and my good flipper started to work again.

#18 11 years ago

TOX

ChrisHibler

Nice work.
You've proven that the flipper has power.
You've also proven that the headers on the left side of the solenoid driver board have cracked solder joints. Flipper power is routed through the boards flipper enable relay.

Remove the board....Two screws and a few plastic clips. Slide an old BIC pen shaft over those plastic clips for easy removal (you have to remove the ink cartridge).

Heat your iron up and flow new solder on the header joints.

Press on...
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#19 11 years ago

DLS

opeth

Inactive member

THanks alot Chris or your guidance on this!

I have taken off the SDB and noticed that you were right! Unfortuantely it seems that this board was serviced at one point. Not very good either. Is it possible to fix thes break with a wire or should I just buy another board? At least we identified the problem

photo_1.JPG photo_2_(1).JPG

#20 11 years ago

DLS

opeth

Inactive member

Ya know for $60 bucks I'll just replace the board.
http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/parts-fs

Thanks Chris for your help with this.

#21 11 years ago

TOX

ChrisHibler

Oh ya...that'll do it!
That's definitely repairable. Just jumper a wire from that trace's source to it's destination.

$60 bucks is a good price for a replacement board, assuming it has been reworked.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#22 11 years ago

DLS

opeth

Inactive member

Im gonna try to repair it. Lets see what happens!

I'll let ya know tomorrow.

#23 11 years ago

DLS

opeth

Inactive member

Wow. Thanks so much helping me troubleshoot this issue guys. The information you guys provided was very helpful to this noobie.

Jumpering the PCB with a wire last night fixed my issus. The flipper came back to life! Makes me wonder how it got burnt up in the first place. Its obvious that the flipper was worked on before.

Looks like Ill keep this pin intact and build my hyperpin out of something else =)

Already looking at my 3rd pin - 1980 Firepower pin for sale by me. I think he wants $85 for it and said the only thing wrong was a sticking pop bumper. /crosses fingers

Again, Thank you guys!
Dan

#24 11 years ago

TOX

ChrisHibler

Happy to help.
$85 FirePower is a steal.
Sticking Pop is a shorted transistor on the driver boards special solenoid section.

Good Luck!
--
Chris Hibler

5 years later

#25 6 years ago

TRE

Newbie979

Inactive member

Quoted from ChrisHibler:
Happy to help.
$85 FirePower is a steal.
Sticking Pop is a shorted transistor on the driver boards special solenoid section.
Good Luck!
--
Chris Hibler

So was playing my Freddy pinball the other day and suddenly my left flipper just died. Looked at fuses and wiring everything looks good. Any ideas of what can be the problem? Attached a picture of my switch for left flipper. Know the contact is missing but pushed switch todgther so they touch and still nothing. Help please!

C6BD0675-7E62-48A4-A43C-346665E403CA (resized).jpeg

#26 6 years ago

DAV

wayout440

Pinside member

Quoted from Newbie979:
So was playing my Freddy pinball the other day and suddenly my left flipper just died. Looked at fuses and wiring everything looks good. Any ideas of what can be the problem? Attached a picture of my switch for left flipper. Know the contact is missing but pushed switch todgther so they touch and still nothing. Help please!

Are you sure any current at all is going through those cab switch contacts. They look like they are in dire need of point filing. Do you have a large test lead? Clip one end to ground and touch the other end to each side of the switch contacts. If the flipper fires, then the switch needs attention. Do you have a DMM/voltmeter?

#27 6 years ago

TRE

Newbie979

Inactive member

Quoted from wayout440:
Are you sure any current at all is going through those cab switch contacts. They look like they are in dire need of point filing. Do you have a large test lead? Clip one end to ground and touch the other end to each side of the switch contacts. If the flipper fires, then the switch needs attention. Do you have a DMM/voltmeter?

I sure don’t at the moment. Anything else I can use? Can you post a pic of what I need to do to test. Would love to know if it’s just a switch that I got on order. Would sleep better tonight lol

#28 6 years ago

TRE

Newbie979

Inactive member

Quoted from wayout440:
Are you sure any current at all is going through those cab switch contacts. They look like they are in dire need of point filing. Do you have a large test lead? Clip one end to ground and touch the other end to each side of the switch contacts. If the flipper fires, then the switch needs attention. Do you have a DMM/voltmeter?

I can use the switch to navigate thru test mode. Menu settings etc. but nothing when I push it for the flipper during game

#29 6 years ago

MAG

Completist

Pinside member

The missing switch contact - is that what i’m seeing on the outer switch? Guessing thats just for the lane change but i’m not a gottlieb guy. I’d be interested in seeing the flipper assembly as well to see the condition of the end of stroke switch.

Quick test though. Manually raise flipper batt and then press and hold the flipper button (game power on). If it stays up then the EOS switch is suspect.

#30 6 years ago

TRE

Newbie979

Inactive member

Quoted from Completist:
The missing switch contact - is that what i’m seeing on the outer switch? Guessing thats just for the lane change but i’m not a gottlieb guy. I’d be interested in seeing the flipper assembly as well to see the condition of the end of stroke switch.
Quick test though. Manually raise flipper batt and then press and hold the flipper button (game power on). If it stays up then the EOS switch is suspect.

Yes it’s missing a contact. I was told that that switch is actually for the flipper while the good one is for menu but idk. New to pinball world. Gonna try what u said see if it works.

#31 6 years ago

TRE

Newbie979

Inactive member

Quoted from Completist:
The missing switch contact - is that what i’m seeing on the outer switch? Guessing thats just for the lane change but i’m not a gottlieb guy. I’d be interested in seeing the flipper assembly as well to see the condition of the end of stroke switch.
Quick test though. Manually raise flipper batt and then press and hold the flipper button (game power on). If it stays up then the EOS switch is suspect.

Ok did that test during a game and it doesn’t stay up at all. Falls right back down. The coil or nothing moves at all when I push the button. Like there is no power.

#32 6 years ago

MAG

Completist

Pinside member

Quoted from Newbie979:
Yes it’s missing a contact. I was told that that switch is actually for the flipper while the good one is for menu but idk. New to pinball world. Gonna try what u said see if it works.

Just saw your other thread. Yes one is for flipper and the other for lane change/menus. I assumed the closest switch to flipper button was for flipper but could be wrong. Anyway yr in good hands here with Wayout and those from the other thread. Without a DMM handy its harder to troubleshoot. Are the switch wires in the pic just fixed with spade connectors? For peace of mind could swap them with the other flipper see if that one comes to life lol

#33 6 years ago

TRE

Newbie979

Inactive member

Quoted from Completist:
Just saw your other thread. Yes one is for flipper and the other for lane change/menus. I assumed the closest switch to flipper button was for flipper but could be wrong. Anyway yr in good hands here with Wayout and those from the other thread. Without a DMM handy its harder to troubleshoot. Are the switch wires in the pic just fixed with spade connectors? For peace of mind could swap them with the other flipper see if that one comes to life lol

You mean the right flipper? Just to see if it works?

#34 6 years ago

DAV

wayout440

Pinside member

Quoted from Completist:
The missing switch contact - is that what i’m seeing on the outer switch?

Replace your cabinet switches - no exception. They are very important! http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/SW-1010A-13

Quoted from Newbie979:
I sure don’t at the moment. Anything else I can use? Can you post a pic of what I need to do to test. Would love to know if it’s just a switch that I got on order. Would sleep better tonight lol

You can use a plain wire, such as speaker wire or lamp cord and strip a small amount off each end. Just be very careful to only touch the flipper power circuit contacts and do not short them to the lane change switches or you'll really be in a mess.

Really would be helpful to have a DMM/Voltmeter and know how to use it here. Even if you don't buy one, someone you know may be able to loan you one for a time.

#35 6 years ago

TRE

Newbie979

Inactive member

Quoted from wayout440:
Replace your cabinet switches - no exception. They are very important! http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/SW-1010A-13

You can use a plain wire, such as speaker wire or lamp cord and strip a small amount off each end. Just be very careful to only touch the flipper power circuit contacts and do not short them to the lane change switches or you'll really be in a mess.
Really would be helpful to have a DMM/Voltmeter and know how to use it here. Even if you don't buy one, someone you know may be able to loan you one for a time.

Ok going to get a meter today.so how do I test it and what voltage would I need to see in it to know it’s good. And yes I bought a leaf switch to replace it already just waiting for it to be delivered

#36 6 years ago

TRE

Newbie979

Inactive member

So just have one end of the wire touch the good contact and the other end of the wire touching the missing contact spot? It wouldn’t mess up if the other part of the switch is in contact with the piece that is missing?

#37 6 years ago

DAV

wayout440

Pinside member

That's actually a dual contact heavy duty switch. Should be:
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/SW-1010A-13

What I meant was to touch one end to ground braid and the other to either switch terminal. The one that has power on it should make the flipper flip, if your wiring etc from the coil is good. One if those cab switch terminals should be around 43VDC
If you try to do it it your way, just jumpering from on terminal to the next, the game needs to be in gameplay to have the flipper relay enabled....and that will only work if the switch is your only problem.

#38 6 years ago

TRE

Newbie979

Inactive member

Quoted from wayout440:
That's actually a dual contact heavy duty switch. Should be:
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/SW-1010A-13
What I meant was to touch one end to ground braid and the other to either switch terminal. The one that has power on it should make the flipper flip, if your wiring etc from the coil is good. One if those cab switch terminals should be around 43VDC
If you try to do it it your way, just jumpering from on terminal to the next, the game needs to be in gameplay to have the flipper relay enabled....and that will only work if the switch is your only problem.

Picking up a multimeter today after work. I’ll see if it is at 43V. And gonna try the wire trick. Can I set the side I needed grounded to any ground nuts on cab? And then touch each side of the switch to see if it sets off flipper?

#39 6 years ago

TRE

Newbie979

Inactive member

Quoted from Newbie979:
Picking up a multimeter today after work. I’ll see if it is at 43V. And gonna try the wire trick. Can I set the side I needed grounded to any ground nuts on cab? And then touch each side of the switch to see if it sets off flipper?

Ok so picked up my new switch today hooked it up and nothing. Did have an extra prong on back for something else to hook up which I thought was weird but other then that looks exactly like one I have in my cab. Turned game on a nothing. So checked plug with multimeter and realized it was blown. So took another 2.5 amp out of fuse box on game just to test turned game on and pushed left flipper went up once then nothing. Thought I blew fuse but come to find out fuse didn’t blow. So now I’m totally lost of what it could be. Please help guys!

image (resized).jpg

#40 6 years ago

DAV

wayout440

Pinside member

Both flippers dead or just left? Checked EOS end of stroke switch on flipper solenoid ? Take pic and post it here if you can.
Odd because I would have suspected the fuse blew if there was one flip and then quit.

#41 6 years ago

TRE

Newbie979

Inactive member

Quoted from wayout440:
Both flippers dead or just left? Checked EOS end of stroke switch on flipper solenoid ? Take pic and post it here if you can.
Odd because I would have suspected the fuse blew if there was one flip and then quit.

Just the left. Exact;y what I was thinking. I took the fuse from the glove flipper to use to test. Don’t know if that means anything. Here is a pic of the switch for the left flipper.

image (resized).jpg

#42 6 years ago

TRE

Newbie979

Inactive member

Wouldn’t the mechanism that is hooked up to the solenoid coil at least move to try to hit the eos switch cause it doesn’t do anything when I hit button?

#43 6 years ago

TRE

Newbie979

Inactive member

Quoted from Newbie979:
Wouldn’t the mechanism that is hooked up to the solenoid coil at least move to try to hit the eos switch cause it doesn’t do anything when I hit button?

Should that solenoid coil sleeve be stuck in the solenoid?

#44 6 years ago

MAG

Completist

Pinside member

A i looking at that right - is the plunger disconnected from the linkage?

#45 6 years ago

TRE

Newbie979

Inactive member

Quoted from Completist:
A i looking at that right - is the plunger disconnected from the linkage?

Yeah that lil plastic piece is broke now that I look at it.

#46 6 years ago

TRE

Newbie979

Inactive member

How would I replace that? Trying to remove that red plastic piece and can’t

#47 6 years ago

MAG

Completist

Pinside member

I always buy flipper rebuild kits for both sides. Will come with new coil stop, EOS switch, coil sleeve and pawl assembly. New capacitors too. Basically everything but braket and coil which wont need replacing. What it likely wont come with is the flipper bushing (part that flipper shaft goes thru pf in). I like to replace those while i have assemblies out. Imo good, strong flippers are the most important thing when it comes to playing.

#48 6 years ago

DAV

wayout440

Pinside member