(Topic ID: 152256)

Dead Bally Campus Queen

By MechaGregor_

8 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 71 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by jrpinball
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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There are 71 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 8 years ago

Also check score motor switch 2C... Do you have a photo of the credit unit step down solenoid circuit?

#52 8 years ago

They call the credit wheel the Reply Unit, here's a shot of that section. Sorry it's not high res, I can provide more detail if needed, let me know.

MechaGregor - can you take a couple of close-up pics of your ball return relay (check my thread for reference to the type of pics I mean). I just want to see if anything is out of whack on yours, like it was on mine. Also, check "Reset 3" in the head. It's the relay in the bottom right-hand corner of the head.

CQ_Replay_Unit_(resized).jpgCQ_Replay_Unit_(resized).jpg

#53 8 years ago

Edit: Double post, apologies.

#54 8 years ago

From the video the credit unit keeps deducting credits while the score motor constantly runs. So, we'll need to look at Replay Unit Reset Solenoid circuit and the score motor circuit. Those two circuits have some related switches. Check, clean and adjust the following: start trip relay and multiple play relay. Also check score motor switch 3B... We're looking for stuck switches now...

#55 8 years ago

I managed to step away from work for a minute to run out and take a picture of the relay. Here is what it looks like. Max btw I have the instruction cards. They are a little dirty, but I will try to get an image your way this evening.

I uploaded it at a couple of different angles.

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#56 8 years ago

The contacts on the relay in the first and second photos look like they are not adjusted properly. With the power off, manually push in the relay in and you should be able to see which contacts should be opened and closed when in the resting position and energized position. Adjust and thoroughly clean the contacts while the relay is in the resting position. Check the wire connections on the relays to make sure they are not touching other connections on neighboring wires... The relay in the third photo looks normal...

#57 8 years ago

100% agree with Fred on that relay. Looks out of whack to me. Since that same relay is what was causing me to have the identical problem you had earlier (Ball Return repeatedly firing and outhole kicker doing nothing), I would advise doing as he says and cleaning/adjusting it. Check out the same exact relay on my machine by going to my post here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/campus-queen-bally-1966-startup-problem#post-2987131

Aside from mine having a missing contact face, they're in pretty decent alignment. Yours seem bent and moved around a bit. I'd straighten them out and see if that helps. Your make/break (far left group of 3 switches in your pics) look really close together and all bent the same direction. In resting state, you want the furthest two blades to the left touching. When the relay pulls, you want the middle blade to release it's contact from the far left blade and make contact with the 3rd blade in that make/break group instead.

It's hard to see the bottom switches on the far right, but those look a little off too. In resting state, all contacts should be separated except the first two to the far left in that make/break. After the relay is activated, all contacts should be touching except for those far two to the left. Hope that makes sense.

#58 8 years ago

Took the relay apart and adjusted it as best as I could. Here is where I am at now.

Still need to clean the player up reel. Will do that tomorrow. I am starting to get very flustered trying to figure it out honestly. May try and see if anyone lives nearby to take a look at it personally as well. Maybe there is something silly I am missing.

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#59 8 years ago

The wire between the two relays came apart as well you can kind of see where I had to solder on the bottom left. It has continuity and is working fine in that regard.

#60 8 years ago

The switches on that relay are bent all to hell. Are you sure they are making and breaking properly?

#61 8 years ago

Honestly not 100% sure. They seem to be making contact, but they are giving me a hell of time. Everything seems all messed up. I feel like this is only a small piece of the puzzle.

#62 8 years ago
Quoted from MechaGregor_:

Honestly not 100% sure. They seem to be making contact, but they are giving me a hell of time. Everything seems all messed up. I feel like this is only a small piece of the puzzle.

Yeah, but it only takes one switch not making proper contact to cause a problem. You have to take it one step at a time. Inspect each relay and activate it by hand. Each switch should make and/or break appropriately. If you take the time and go through the motor board one relay at a time, you'll eliminate many possible problems. Always tighten the switch stack screws first before making switch adjustments.
Get the switch blades as straight as you can with fine needlenose pliers. This will help to minimize problems in the future.

#63 8 years ago

I will give it a go again in the morning. The next big thing after that will be the player up reel.

#64 8 years ago

You're right, sometimes it can be very frustrating to troubleshoot a machine, but don't give up...

Looking at the video, it looks like one of the 3-blade switches on the relay is not adjusted properly. Two problems I see:

1) The 3-blade switch is hitting all three blade contacts when the coil is energized. When the coil is energized, two of the blades should only be touching. When the coil is at rest, two of the blades should only be touching. When the coil is at rest, the blades look normal. But, when the coil is energized, all three blades are touching. When the coil is energized, the blade furthest away from the coil should not be touching the other blade next to it.

2) The wires that are connected to the switch stacks might be touching neighboring wires and wire lugs. The clear plastic sleeves on the ends of the wire lugs help prevent wires/lugs from touching each other. On these switch stacks, some of the lugs and wires look like they may be touching each other, because the plastic sleeves have shrunk and have pulled back off the lugs. Especially, check the lug with the orange wire on it. Make sure none of the wires/lugs are touching neighboring lugs/wires.

#65 8 years ago

Note: always have the ball in the outhole when pressing start... not doing that seems to confuse the heck out of my Campus Queen.

Agree with Fred on this, the weird bending and multiple-contact-touching thing is almost certainly your main issue right now. The make/break switch (3 switches to the left of your pic/video) have to function properly, or you'll get exactly the results you're getting. I know, because my CQ was identical in terms of issues until I fixed that same switch issue.

Let's check that make/break switch, the 3 blades to the far left. Easy test you can perform with your meter. Set to continuity, test the 3 blades while the coil is NOT energized. Let's call the far left blade #1, middle blade #2, and right-hand blade #3. In resting state, #1 and #2 should be making contact, and the third blade should just be sitting there doing nothing. When the coil is energized, #2 and #3 should be touching, and #1 should NOT be touching anything.

It looks like in your video that all 3 are touching and the coil is locked energized, which is incorrect. I'm going to try and post some side-by-side pics of your Ball Return vs. Mine so you can see the differences in the blades, the bends, etc. Yours is on the left of the pic, mine on the right. Note how straight and aligned my blades are vs. yours. I think if you can realign it all properly, you'll be happy with the result.

NOTE: My blade #3 is slightly bent towards the other two. This is because I'm missing a contact on that blade. Your 3rd blade should be a little straighter than mine most likely.

CQ_Ball_Return_Compare_(resized).jpgCQ_Ball_Return_Compare_(resized).jpg

#66 8 years ago

Do I need to be disassembling anything to straighten the blades? Idk why I can't get them straight. Maybe I just don't have a steady hand. I'm going to try with some fine needlenose pliers per JR's recommendation.

#67 8 years ago

You can try to straighten the blades with a pinball blade adjustment tool or some needle nose pliers. Try to get the blades as straight as possible. If this doesn't work then you'll have to remove the blade from the switch stack. Then you can put it on a flat surface and lightly tap on it with a small hammer to straighten it... Or you can just replace the bent blade with a new blade/contact... When the blades are straight, then you can go back and properly adjust the blade contacts on the relay...

#68 8 years ago

Are you using an adjustment tool? Any bend to the switches should only be at it's very base at the edge of the bakelite spacers. The rest of the switch blade should be straight. This is best accomplished with the proper tool. I agree the normally closed side of that make/break doesn't seem to be opening up, it will be much easier to get the right adjustment once that center blade is straightened. As long as the center blade is straight you should be able to get the right gaps by adjusting only the inner and outer blades.

#69 8 years ago

Nope, you don't usually need to disassemble anything. I've done all my adjusting with things sitting as-is so far. The adjustment tool Fred is referring to is the same one I mentioned in an earlier post about what to order first. At Pinball Resource it's under tools and called a "L" Contact Adjuster (~$4.50). You can also get it on eBay (just search pinball tool) or other pinball sites like Marco specialties. I have to admit, when I need to adjust blades, it's a very handy tool to have. You can use needle-nose pliers as well, especially if you have smaller electronics ones, but working in tight spaces like relays it's a little tougher. Another trick you can use is two standard flathead screwdrivers putting pressure on either side of the blade to gently bend it. That way you can using opposing forces to really control the shape.

Honestly, it's just the first 3 blades on the left (your make/break switch) that look really messed up. I would just take some time to tweak them until you are certain they make the contact pattern described above when the coil is off vs. on. They don't HAVE to be straight, they just have to operate as intended. Mess around with it and see what you can do, be patient, you'll get it.

#70 8 years ago
Quoted from polyacanthus:

Any bend to the switches should only be at it's very base at the edge of the bakelite spacers. The rest of the switch blade should be straight. ... As long as the center blade is straight you should be able to get the right gaps by adjusting only the inner and outer blades.

Both very good points. get that center blade straigtened and then adjust the other two accordingly. The center blade in that make/break is the one that's actually attached to the relay/coil mechanism, so it has to be in the right place more than the other two, since you can move those around a lot more easily. Note that my center blade is straight, but not necessarily perpendicular to the rest of the mechanism.

#71 8 years ago

The reason I like to use fine needle nose pliers is that you can clamp each blade with firm pressure and while twisting in the needed direction, you can gently stroke the blade back to it's original form. It takes a little finesse and practice, but you can get them straight again pretty easily this way. The gap on the l-shaped adjusting tool is a bit too wide to do this easily. They are useful for adjusting blades which are straight, but pliers are better for restoring bent and twisted switch blades.

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