(Topic ID: 201040)

DE WWF Royal Rumble Lamp Issue (board?)

By zacaj

6 years ago



Topic Stats

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

Data_East_1994_The_Who_s_Tommy_Pinball_Wizard_Manu_2017-10-23_19-35-10 (resized).png
Data_East_1994_The_Who_s_Tommy_Pinball_Wizard_Manu_2017-10-23_19-33-53 (resized).png

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider zacaj.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

#1 6 years ago

Picked up a Royal Rumble last week, and after setting it up the game played fine for about 10 games, and then a lamp issue appeared. Going through single lamp test I was able to confirm that more than half of the lamps was lighting other lamps. There might be more patterns, but the main two I identified were:

-any lamp in row 3 will light lamps in rows 1,2,3 of that column
-any lamp in row 2 will light lamps in rows 1,3 (but not 2) of that column
-any lamp in row 4 will light lamps in rows 4,5,6 of that column

This didn't sound like a lamp matrix issue since it was affecting every column. If it was always extra rows, I would have assumed I have a row-row short somewhere, but I can't figure out how that would result in the correct row not lighting. So I figured it was probably a board issue, most likely in the PIA or logic ICs between the PIA and the row transistors (a pair of 7406 inverters). I disconnected the lamp connectors from the board and then hooked up my logic probe and checked the outputs of the 7406s, and found that, with a lamp in row 4 lit, I was seeing activity on all three of the pins associated with rows 4-6, and none elsewhere, so this confirmed to me that it was a board issue with one of the chips.

I removed the two 7406s and replaced them with new ones (socketed), and also swapped the PIA for a known good one, and put the board back in, but it didn't affect the issue. A bit confused, I then removed the 7406s and read the outputs of the PIA, and again the pins for rows 4-6 were all strobing while the rest remained stable. This didn't make any sense, as I knew the PIA was good. I swapped it back into another board and confirmed that it was still good. According to the schematic, there outputs of the PIA do nothing besides connect to the 7406s, and since they weren't installed, there shouldn't be anything else affecting the outputs.
Data_East_1994_The_Who_s_Tommy_Pinball_Wizard_Manu_2017-10-23_19-33-53 (resized).pngData_East_1994_The_Who_s_Tommy_Pinball_Wizard_Manu_2017-10-23_19-33-53 (resized).png
Data_East_1994_The_Who_s_Tommy_Pinball_Wizard_Manu_2017-10-23_19-35-10 (resized).pngData_East_1994_The_Who_s_Tommy_Pinball_Wizard_Manu_2017-10-23_19-35-10 (resized).png

Now I was at the point where I couldn't explain what I was seeing, so I went nuclear. Unplugged everything not necessary, rechecked all chips out of circuit, verified the game rom was correct: nothing. So I swapped the board with my Tommy, and the problem stayed with Royal Rumble. Went in again with the probe, and confirmed that I was getting the same wrong signals on the Tommy board in WWF (even with the lamps unplugged!), and that the WWF board in Tommy was no longer showing them. I disconnected all the 555 lamp boards on the playfield, and the problem is still there. I tested every remaining lamp diode on the playfield, and they're all fine. Checked for shorts to ground and 18V from every row+column, nothing. Checked continuity between every row and every column on both the playfield and the board connector, nothing.

Not sure where else to look at this point.

EDIT:
as an additional test, I put the Tommy ROM in the Royal Rumble (disconnected all coils just in case), and then went through lamp test, and all the lamps worked fine. Then I put the RR ROM in Tommy, and went through the lamp test, and all the lamps worked fine. But RR ROM in RR has the issue.

#3 6 years ago
Quoted from CadillacMusic:

What a stumper. I've seen bad ROMs do weird, weird things though. At this point if I were you, I'd get another copy of the ROM.

I'll put in an order for some blanks, worth a shot...

#5 6 years ago
Quoted from CadillacMusic:

I mean, it's the only thing left you haven't swapped. You've determined the signals are board-based, because you unplugged the lamps and still got them. But you switched the board with a known working one, and it's doing the same thing. So it can't be the board, unless you're really really unlucky. What else is left?

That's what I'd think, but then why does the RR rom in the RR board in Tommy work fine?

It seems like there must be something wrong with the rr rom and the rr game which are combining to cause this but I can't imagine what it could be

#7 6 years ago
Quoted from CadillacMusic:

The only possible thing I can think of otherwise would be the sound card or display card putting garbage on the data lines. But then you'd have other issues, I would think. Still, probably worth a try making sure the signals are still there with those ribbon cables unplugged...

Didn't mention, but this was all done with sound card unplugged. Needed display to get into display test

Other interesting thing I noticed while playing Tommy (with rr board still in it) today: I could swear the CPU is running 'fast'. The high score initials move way quicker than they used to, it seems like the attract light show is going faster, and the autolaunch during multiball is firing before the ball had a chance to settle onto the kicker, so balls aren't clearing the lane sometimes.

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
From: $ 40.00
Lighting - Interactive
Professor Pinball
 
From: $ 50.00
Cabinet - Armor And Blades
arcade-cabinets.com
 
$ 18.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 16.00
Boards
Lermods
 
$ 32.00
Electronics
Yorktown Arcade Supply
 
$ 8.00
Tools
Nezzy's Pinball Prints
 
$ 28.00
Electronics
Yorktown Arcade Supply
 
From: $ 9.99
$ 18.95
$ 18.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
From: $ 209.00
$ 20.00
Cabinet - Other
Filament Printing
 
$ 39.00
Cabinet - Other
Arcade Upkeep
 
$ 36.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 35.00
Hardware
Filament Printing
 
$ 5.00
Playfield - Protection
UpKick Pinball
 
4,750
Machine - For Sale
Ogden, UT
$ 99.00
Cabinet - Toppers
Slipstream Mod Shop
 
$ 65.00
Boards
Pinball Haus
 
Hey modders!
Your shop name here

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider zacaj.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/de-wwf-royal-rumble-lamp-issue-board?tu=zacaj and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.