(Topic ID: 241250)

DE Time Machine Sound Help

By GLSP3022

5 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 25 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by GLSP3022
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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#1 5 years ago

Hello all.
I need some guidance on a sound issue with a Data East Time Machine. I can fix a lot of things with pins, but struggle when it comes to sound.

Backstory: We picked this dirty toilet up at an auction for 950. Good cosmetically, ramps are all in tact. I got it playable in a few hours but a sound issue still persists.

Background music (ROM3) is loud and crisp. Sounds can be heard from all 3 speakers.
Voices (ROM1 & ROM2) produce a loud static noise. No sign of speech whatsoever.

From research I've done, it seems the sound board has a section the produces the speech. I'm not sure what direction to go here. Speech processor going bad?
The same results are produced during test mode as well.

Thanks

#2 5 years ago

In this thread, it ended up being the MSM5205 chip on the sound board:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/data-east-bad-sound-board-has-music-no-voices-any-ideas

But there were a bunch of tips for what to check before he found out what his issue was. Maybe it'll help...

#3 5 years ago
Quoted from mskoenen:

In this thread, it ended up being the MSM5205 chip on the sound board:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/data-east-bad-sound-board-has-music-no-voices-any-ideas
But there were a bunch of tips for what to check before he found out what his issue was. Maybe it'll help...

I have been reading some posts on Google help boards. That MSM5205 seems to pop up a lot as problematic. I sourced a few and I'll go from there. Thanks for the reply.

#4 5 years ago

check if the 5205 is out putting signals with a logic probe when they are called for. Also check power first before anything else and inline caps to that msm5205. More likely power or cap related.

My legendary tech friend has only ever replaced one msm5205 in over 40 years! Not a common failure point.

#5 5 years ago
Quoted from Hawk007:

check if the 5205 is out putting signals with a logic probe when they are called for. Also check power first before anything else and inline caps to that msm5205. More likely power or cap related.
My legendary tech friend has only ever replaced one msm5205 in over 40 years! Not a common failure point.

I'll check some voltages on the board. I believe the issue is isolated to the voice section. Background sound and other non-speech sounds play fine.
I get a burst of static when voices are to be played. It seems possible that the voices are triggered correctly, but not interpreted correctly. Could be a cap issue I suppose.
Thanks for your reply.

#6 5 years ago

OK, based on that, for sure check caps in that section. Specifically ones 'inline ' in the 5205 chip circuit. Very common to have a dried out one or 2 or possibly an out of spec resistor.

If you do not have any luck I will dig out a schematic and let you know what to check.
Cheers

#7 5 years ago

I checked all the voltages on the board. They are all present and strong.

I'm looking at the schematics on my phone. (Very hard to see) and I'm seeing a couple caps near the 5205 but they seem not have a value listed.
Hawk007 if you can give me some specific components to check, it would be much appreciated. I struggle badly with sound circuits. Again many thanks for your assistance.

#8 5 years ago

Well c29 lists at a .47uf 50v cap for one but you really need a schematic and manual for your game. DL one in the meantime.

Do you have the ability to test caps? C29 is inline and if failed would have a dramatic effect on the speech or lack there of.
If you hear distorted voice sounds and the chip is trying to play the sample it points right at the voice 3403 amp circuit and caps. The voice 5205 chips are not cheap. And usually work or not.

#9 5 years ago

And your very welcome. Happy to help. You can check the resistors r31,r30,r29 as well All are 68k ohm and in line on the voice circuit. Unlikely they are bad but worth checking.

And if you are unable to test the caps best to just replace them. You need a temp controlled solder station and good electronic solder, 95/5 mask,gloves and a solder sucker.

#10 5 years ago

Maybe silly question , but are the ROM's still OK?

#11 5 years ago
Quoted from Hawk007:

If you hear distorted voice sounds and the chip is trying to play the sample it points right at the voice 3403 amp circuit and caps.

I dont hear distorted voices...its varying degrees of static. When the game first boots it's supposed to say "Time Machine". I get a string of static, then it quits. Attract music kicks in next and plays normally.
It does make me think a cap has dried out.
Thanks for suggesting c29, that verifies my first pick. I'll try to source a few of those. They are easy enough to change out. I'm pretty decent with board work.

#12 5 years ago
Quoted from PinMario:

Maybe silly question , but are the ROM's still OK?

I thought this too. I have access to another Time Machine. I can verify the ROMs in the other working game. I can check those tomorrow.

#13 5 years ago

For some reason I thought you checked those already. But usually when roms are bad the sound board will not boot right and will throw errors up. but can't hurt to check the eproms. Your playing static or distorted voices says cap to me or amp chip not the 5205 as it trys to play the clip its just distorted or complete static. Not saying its not the 5205 its just best to eliminate all common failure points and lesser expensive options first .

Try the c29 first then check the resistors then I would suspect the amp chip for voices. You can check it to a known good one with diode test on your dmm. Not conclusive as its not under load but usually picks up a failing or faulty chip.
Good luck

#14 5 years ago

Thank you for the guidance. I will follow your suggestions and report back once i have replacement parts in hand. I am determined to get this thing functioning correctly!

#15 5 years ago

Swapped out c29 today, no change. I'll wait for the 3403 ic op amps to arrive and swap that next.

#16 4 years ago

Replaced the 3403 this evening. No change. Still static pops when voices are supposed to play. Maybe it is the 5205 voice synthesizer

#17 4 years ago

check the eproms too if you have not already. Was mentioned earlier but not sure if you did that yet. Thats usually the first thing to check as they are easy to swap out.
You'll get er.

1 week later
#18 4 years ago

Update: received and changed the 5205 chip. The static is gone. But I have a loud "beeeeeeep" in place of any voice. Sound test results in the "beep" for both voice roms. Sound effects are still working fine.

I have not been able to verify the ROMs. My friend hasn't been around to check them in his machine. Seems unlikely both voice ROMs are bad yet the 3rd sound effect is ok.

Still stumped.

#19 4 years ago

Hmm . Double check the connections on that IC according to your schematic to be sure its installed correctly. Also verifying the eproms will eliminate them as a problem I agree its unlikely they are bad but not impossible.

Your old 5205 may not be bad as its still not fixed its just changed. You can make a audio probe with old headphones and track the signal around the board. Google homemade audio probe. Neat tool!

#20 4 years ago

These are the new chips. Possible they are incorrect? I saw a couple different M5205 chips around.

I was buzzing each ponb of the socket a d pretty sure they all connect to the next component in line. I will def double check.

Headphone probe sounds cool...will google that!

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#21 4 years ago

I was also interested by the audio probe idea. I found this article that gives a brief explanation of generic audio problems and how this DIY probe can help:

http://electronics-diy.com/electronic_schematic.php?id=1047

#22 4 years ago

To update this, I sent the board to Clive at Coin Op Cauldron. His profession opinion is that its a data addressing issue somewhere on the board. But at that same time he will recap and address any other issues. I'll update this again once the final verdict comes in.

#23 4 years ago
Quoted from GLSP3022:

To update this, I sent the board to Clive at Coin Op Cauldron.
His profession opinion is that its a data addressing issue
somewhere on the board. But at that same time he will recap and
address any other issues. I'll update this again once the final
verdict comes in.

Thank you for the update, I have been watching this thread close as I have my own sound issues with a Time Machine.

4 months later
#24 4 years ago

Hey, did you ever manage to get this working?
I've the exact same issue on my LW3, recapped most the board but still the same

#25 4 years ago

Yes, there was a short under the 5205 oki chip socket. Bad rework from somebody tinkering. That was the main problem along with bad caps. Also upon return, a voice ROM was still not working. This turned out to be the ground leg broken loose from the ROM chip from testing and replacement at the shop. Clive sent a brand new ROM at no charge.

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