(Topic ID: 295390)

DE SW flipper issue

By toolbox195

1 year ago


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  • 30 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by toolbox195
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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FLP023.pdf (PDF preview)
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#1 1 year ago

Hi everybody,

I need some help with a flipper issue I'm having on my Data East Star Wars machine.

The right flipper fires weakly and delayed once or twice when I first start a game, but then it will only twitch and barely even move. The left flipper seems to be working fine.

- It has a fairly new Rottendog flipper board,
- The flipper was rebuilt with new coils and everything. I tested the coils with the multimeter on continuity and they seem to be the same, around 5 ohms.
- The PPB is a new new xpin board,
- The flipper switch is working fine (making contact and the contact is registered during the switch test), and
- I pulled and checked all of the fuses from the flipper board and they're all good.

I've had consistent problems with the flippers and I'm not sure what to do next.

Oh, and feel free to explain it like you would to a noob.

Any ideas?
Thanks!

#2 1 year ago
Quoted from toolbox195:

I'm not sure what to do next.

Up and down play on the flipper bat ( not back and forth ) ?

( different style flipper, this is for how to set the up and down spacing )

LTG : )

#3 1 year ago

I think so. I feel some up and down play on the flipper bat. It also feels pretty smooth when I use my hand to move the bat back and forth.

The lights on the flipper board do light up when I use the left bumper, but not the right.

#4 1 year ago

I also tested the transistor on the cpu that connects to the coil. It tested just like the other transistors.

It seems to me that there’s a power issue here and I’m not sure how to go about diagnosing it and fixing it.

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#5 1 year ago

Had a similar problem with a DE Flipper on lower right side of a TFTC. I was helping a friend. So he ordered a flipper coil rebuild kit. That did not fix it. Then he bought a new flipper board. That did not fix it. We finally figured out that the blade switch that the flipper mech opens was bent out of shape. Instead of opening at EOS, End of stroke. It was opening right away. We read an old DE bulletin about these switches failing and shorting out between the blades also. With a new blade installed and set up correctly for EOS, the problem went away.

#6 1 year ago
Quoted from Tophervette:

With a new blade installed and set up correctly for EOS, the problem went away.

This Star Wars doesn't have EOS switches.

Quoted from toolbox195:

The lights on the flipper board do light up when I use the left bumper, but not the right

Assuming they're factory, I would rebuild both connectors on the flipper board, starting with CN2. I would also rebuild CPU board connector CN19.

#7 1 year ago

I don’t see any end of stroke switches either. I ran wires from the left coil to the right and the flipper worked well, so I don’t think it’s a coil or mechanical problem with the flipper.

When you say rebuild the connectors, do you mean replacing the plastic piece that holds the wires (pictured) or the piece with the pins on the board?

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#8 1 year ago
Quoted from toolbox195:

When you say rebuild the connectors, do you mean replacing the plastic piece that holds the wires (pictured) or the piece with the pins on the board

Yes. Replace with Molex style connectors.

http://www.pinrepair.com/connect/

#9 1 year ago

I'll order some and give that a try. Thanks!

#10 1 year ago
Quoted from toolbox195:

I don’t see any end of stroke switches either. I ran wires from the left coil to the right and the flipper worked well, so I don’t think it’s a coil or mechanical problem with the flipper.
When you say rebuild the connectors, do you mean replacing the plastic piece that holds the wires (pictured) or the piece with the pins on the board?
[quoted image]

Hmm, that connector looks good. If it's only one flipper I would look elsewhere. Post a picture of the flipper button switch for the right side..I'm talking the switch inside the cabinet

#11 1 year ago
Quoted from kvan99:

Hmm, that connector looks good.

Not sure which connector that is, but it didn't come from the flipper board. Schematic above shows proper colors and keys. I think he was just asking if that was the style of connector I was talking about.

#12 1 year ago

That picture was from the CPU board in the backbox. That was the connector from CN19.

Here are the connectors from the flipper board and the switch from the right flipper. In diagnostics, the switch does appear to be working- the hitting the flipper button shows that the switch is activated.

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#13 1 year ago
Quoted from toolbox195:

Here are the connectors from the flipper board and the switch from the right flipper. In diagnostics, the switch does appear to be working- the hitting the flipper button shows that the switch is activated.

From looking at your photos, I would check the dip switches on the Rottendog flipper board and make sure they are set for your table.

It looks like those dip switches change the behavior of the flippers.

Edit: Just did a zoom in on the picture. The dips are backwards. Star Wars is suppose to be 110100, but you have 001011.

#14 1 year ago
Quoted from Shogun00:

Just did a zoom in on the picture. The dips are backwards. Star Wars is suppose to be 110100, but you have 001011.

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#15 1 year ago

I just reversed all the dip switches and tried it out. The first time I hit the right flipper switch, the flipper fired and locked in it’s fired position and wouldn’t reset. I tried it a couple times and the same thing happened. Also, the light on the flipper board didn’t light up when I reversed the dips.

I wouldn’t have put it past me to have the switches wrong!

#16 1 year ago
Quoted from toolbox195:

I wouldn’t have put it past me to have the switches wrong!

Take a picture of the dip switches. I can easily spot any issues.

#17 1 year ago

Here’s the switches as they are now.

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#18 1 year ago
Quoted from toolbox195:

Here’s the switches as they are now.
[quoted image]

Ah, I see! The switch box is upside down. This is most likely an oversight by Rottendog, since there is a giant 0 and 1 on the board (and a diagram below them).

Try this! From left to right put the dips to these positions.

Down, down, up, down, up, up

#19 1 year ago

I think this is the position of the switches that you wanted me to try. I still get the issue where the right flipper fires the bat and then holds it extended and never resets.

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#20 1 year ago

I had a similar issue with a FLP023 Rottendog board a couple years back.

Turned out the wrong transistor were installed and ended up blowing and locking on the flipper coil. I believe a batch of these boards were affected.

I think Q1 Q2 & Q3 are supposed to be 2N3906. I’d double check those parts with a meter and at least test to see if the one related to your flipper is reading differently.

You should be able to find more info on the forums.

Edit : link to the issue with responses from Rottendog

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/rottendog-flp023-data-east-flipper-board-issue

#21 1 year ago

That's interesting. Thanks for the info. It looks like the Q1, Q2, and Q3 transistors are all 2N5401 instead of 2N3906. I guess I'll try ordering some correct transistors and see if that fixes the problem. When I tested the transistors on the board, they all tested similarly except Q1 was a little different than the others.

#22 1 year ago

Yeah...the flipper switches look good. So I'm inclined to look at the new board too.

#23 1 year ago

Yikes. Mental note taken. Approach RD DE flipper boards with caution.

I'm tempted to ask where you got that board, but it doesn't matter. You know what to do now.

#24 1 year ago

2N5401 and 2N 3906 are both PNP transistors with the same pinout (EBC).

The main, notable difference is that the 2N5401 has a higher C-E voltage at 150V rather than 40V for the 2N3906.

If you have 2N5401's fitted, that's an upgrade/improvement and will not be your problem here. I wouldn't be changing them.

#25 1 year ago

I got the board from an online pinball part retailer a few years ago. I just got around to doing some work on the machine.

I’m really not sure what to do now? Maybe I’ll look for a used board or something to install and see if I still have problems.

#26 1 year ago
Quoted from toolbox195:

I got the board from an online pinball part retailer a few years ago. I just got around to doing some work on the machine.
I’m really not sure what to do now? Maybe I’ll look for a used board or something to install and see if I still have problems.

Do you have the original board? If so, is it worth having someone repair that rather than mucking about with this unknown board?

Sorry if you already mentioned this.

#27 1 year ago

I doubt that the original board is still around. I’m pretty sure I got rid of it.

#28 1 year ago

Email Rob Anthony and see if he'll look at it for you. Before you send the email, see if you can find the Rottendog schematic for the board and let Rob know if you have it. It doesn't look too complicated, but no idea if it's essentially identical to the DE board. Schematic may be needed.

http://lockwhenlit.com/contactus.htm

#29 1 year ago
FLP023.pdf
#30 1 year ago

I got a new flipper board and when I plugged it in and fired it up, the flippers worked. So there must be something wrong with the old rottendog board.

Thanks for all the help and ideas!

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