(Topic ID: 99926)

DE Rocky Bullwinkle won't start.

By F348

9 years ago


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  • 73 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by kba78
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#9 9 years ago
Quoted from F348:

hmmm....now I can't remember if I replaced those batteries or not..
but I'll look into it, thanks John

(other suggestions are still welcome )

Did you pull out and check the 2 fuses just below the power supply?

#11 9 years ago

Internet pinball database has almost all SS manuals online, including for Data East.

http://ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=23

Go down to the Documentation section and you'll see the link to the full manual.

http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/23/Data_East_1993_Adventures_of_Rocky_and_Bullwinkle_and_Friends_Full_Manual.pdf

#12 9 years ago
Quoted from F348:

I don't have the manual for this game, but when I say, F5 fuse on the PBS blows
on upstart - did that help you guys??

You mean the original power supply board when you said PBS ?

#13 9 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

F348 said:

hmmm....now I can't remember if I replaced those batteries or not..
but I'll look into it, thanks John

(other suggestions are still welcome )

Did you pull out and check the 2 fuses just below the power supply?

These will be attached to the back of the backbox above the big capacitors on the left.

#15 9 years ago

Did you pull out and check the 2 fuses just below the power supply?

All the fuses on the PBB board (lower left board are good?)

Schematics on the attached link I had posted. I just can't view them at work. One of those IT things being blocked.
http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/23/Data_East_1993_Adventures_of_Rocky_and_Bullwinkle_and_Friends_Full_Manual.pdf

#17 9 years ago
Quoted from F348:

+5V" and "blank" were stuck on....

That sounds correct. Every company does not build things the same way.

Did you buy a LED DMD or a new old style plasma orange display?
If you bought a new old style plasma orange display, you can test it out in many of the games you have in your collection.

#18 9 years ago
Quoted from F348:

Yes, I've pulled all fuses and they are all good, except for F5 on power supply board,
however there was two fuses on PPB which was 32V fuses, replaced them with
250V 5a SB + the F5 on the PSB, but still same problem am I afraid

Well, looking at the DE power supply schematic on page 69 and on the Rottendog schematic
http://www.rottendog.us/DPS004.pdf Looks like the F5 actually is a 4amp fuse, not 5amp.

This would be 32volt power to the solenoids. You can see on the schematic that it goes out to CN3, so I suggest unplugging that connector and see what happens when you turn on the game. Does the game now have the DMD display working? Does the F5 still blow with the CN3 disconnected.

If F5 does not blow out when CN3 is disconnected, then I suspect you have a coil that locks on (or is already completely frozen closed). You can physically look at all the coils to see if you have any coil wrappers that are burnt/black. Sign that that coil is shot and a transistor on the MPU/CPU board has fried.

#19 9 years ago

Also, can you take a picture of your whole MPU board when the game is on?

Not just want to look over the LEDs, but I want to look at the game ROM(s) and the jumper on the MPU to see what is selected. If someone changed the game ROM and do not have the right jumper setting, the game will not boot up.

I see you have a LW3, so you can swap the MPU boards and see what happens. Though, you still need to know the jumper setting, which should be listed in the manual(s).

#21 9 years ago
Quoted from F348:

I did try the LW3 display a few weeks back, it worked but was a bit messy since the dip switches were set on LW3 and not Rocky, but I did see life!

Also take a picture of the DMD controller board on the back of the DMD speaker panel. There is 1 or 2 display ROMs on that board so depending on if you have one or two ROMs, jumper need to be on or off at R11. If this is configured wrong, nothing will be displayed on the DMD (assuming the DMD and DMD controller boards are good).

#22 9 years ago
Quoted from F348:

After I replaced those two 32V fuses on PPB and put in a 4A in F5 in PSB
and fired up the game - then I hear a coli "knock" and it didn't release until after a few sec,
so I guess that was when the fuse blew....
But I was unable to figure out which coil it was....

So after reading this F5 should not blow after removing CN3 and you should not hear any coils locked on when you turn on the game.

Then you can reconnect CN3 and lift the playfield and turn on the game briefly (one second each time) to hunt down which coil is locking on. Then you can either..
desolder the smaller guage wire from the coil that is locking on
or break off the transistor off the MPU that drives that coil that is locking on.

Once you stopped the coil from locking on then you should be able to continue to look at the DMD issue.

I suspect that the machine is not set on Free play and you will not be able to set that until you can get your DMD working. Though once you can turn on your game without a coil locking on, you can try to add coins and listen to see if you hear it adding credits. Add about 5 and I suspect you should be able to start a game even though you have no DMD display working at this time.

#23 9 years ago

Issues I am reading you have are
Coil locking on when turning on a game and blowing out F5 on the power supply
DMD is blank
no insert lamps are flashing (no attract mode)

Once you stop the coil from locking on at power up, I hope the attract mode starts. Then you can add coins to see if you can start a game.

#27 9 years ago
Quoted from F348:

Can I cut the red wires on both coils, to disconnect them?

Cut only the smaller wire. The power is daisy chained to the other coils with the thicker wire.

#28 9 years ago

OK. The DMD controller board is configured correctly.
Actually looks like the small ribbon cable to the CN1 of that DMD controller board is upside down.
Swap it over and see if the DMD starts working.

#29 9 years ago

The CPU board actually is small jumper wire toward the middle of the board.

I cannot see the pop bumper paper wrappers at all on the bottom one, so you have to look underneath.
Good chance only the transistor is shorted (most of the time you will not be able to tell they are bad unless you check them with an ohmmeter.

#30 9 years ago

oh bummer.. we are starting to make some progress.
At least he will get everything working for you at one time.

#32 9 years ago

Up to you if you want to continue or take it in.

Well you certainly can use your LW3 to swap between to figure out the DMD problem.
Can be either ribbon cable, DMD controller board, the 2 pin red/black power connector to the DMD controller board, or the DMD.

Though it could be easier to start with trying the whole speaker panel out of the LW3 and connect it to power and the ribbon cable to the CPU board. Or you could just do one item at a time.

The 2 pin red/black power connector likely needs to be resoldered on the DMD controller board and the small ribbon cables are my first 2 suspected parts.

#34 9 years ago

So page 32, shows Q8 and Q11 are the two transistors you will want to check with an ohmmeter to see if they are shorted. I expect them to be.

1 week later
#35 9 years ago

Any luck with this game?

#38 9 years ago

I just use the ohms and not a diode check to measure transistors. Pretty much looking for a difference compared to other TIPs in the other solenoids.

Eh, just go and change the associated transistors and get that thing working.

Where are you at with the machine right now?

#41 9 years ago

The problem with your two coils would be Q8 and Q11.
Either check these against the others in the same row of transistors or just replace them.

#43 9 years ago
Quoted from F348:

Both Q8 and Q11 is fine.

I would just change them.

#44 9 years ago

I seen transistors short in different ways.
Outer to outer, inner to one outer, or inner to the other outer.
You can use the regular ohm check with the 2k ohm setting to check for short. (Don't use the diode check for this.)

I just don't see it being anything other than these 2 transistors, so I suggest just changing them.

#47 9 years ago
Quoted from F348:

I also had a blank DMD remember.....and that dosent have anything to do with CN19 I guess...

No. Separate problem. This is where you need to swap both ribbon cables at a time to the LW3 to help aid figuring out this issue. If not a ribbon cable, then would need to move on to possibly swapping the DMD controller board, then finally the DMD at last.

You could swap the whole speaker panel assemblies between the games first along with both ribbon cables if you wanted, since it can even turn out to be the MPU as the failure.

#49 9 years ago
Quoted from F348:

I guess Star Wars would do the same trick.

Yes, it would.

#51 9 years ago
Quoted from F348:

So what do you think bud? mind as well send it off?

If you don't feel up to continuing.

#52 9 years ago
Quoted from F348:

Today I pulled out the cpu from SW and fitted it in Rocky along
with the ribbons - still no dmd or flashing inserts, just GI light and
C3PO saying something I can't understand, never heard he saying that fraise befo

Have you measured all the fuses again in the backbox?

2 months later
#56 9 years ago
Quoted from F348:

with a new one. I've also replaced the Q3 pre-driver transistor, but I still haven't
fixed those wires under the playfield I had to cut to prevent the fuse to blow, so I cant
really tell IF the Q3 made the trick or not yet.

You say you replaced Q3, but Q2 is shown to have circled which pins you were getting low ohms on. Was that just a reference of what you were comparing Q3 to?

What pop bumper was it that was locking on when you turned on the machine?

Seems my R&B is having a problem now too. I can see I don't have +5v LED on when my display goes out and my machine shuts down until 5 volts returns. I think we may have different problems.

I think you need to measure +5v and +12 volts when your machine is acting up.

#59 9 years ago

It would be good to measure the voltages at the DMD power connector once the machine acts up.
5, 12, 68, -98, and -110VDC for the Dot Matrix Display

#62 9 years ago
Quoted from F348:

PinballManiac40
Good news, problem "solved"
I swapped the LW3 cpu board + the eprom, then Rocky lit up like a christmas tree!
So obviously the problem is in the cpu somewhere, I'll try to resolder the connectors, and if that
dosent help, then I need to buy a new cpu for either the machines!
Thank you a million for all your help and inputs bud, I truly appreciate it!
Cheers!

Oh that is cool. I would stay away from Rottendog MPU boards.
I bet you could find another working good shape DE MPU off of Ebay for a little cheaper than RD board.

Good chance that you can use some freeze spray to make the board go good and heat gun to make it fail again. I would suspect one of the PIA (40 pin) IC's as the cause.

#63 9 years ago

My machine definitely is power supply related right now.

1 week later
#64 9 years ago

I just fixed my rocky and bullwinkle. It had a problem with 5 volts cutting out. Sometimes the game would not turn on either, and of course the DMD was out when the game acted up.

I think you need to replace the C2 also on the power supply as I had. This 100uf 25 volt cap leak and looked like there was solder flux under the capacitor. This is actually the internal of the cap leaked out. Bad part of this is that it eats up the trace and feedthrough below it. Replace with a 100uf either 50v or 100v cap.

3 years later
#66 5 years ago
Quoted from fluxgold:

Hi, i have a very similar problem as PinballManiac 40.... Has he fixed it with new CPU Board ?
Greets from Germany

Problem I nrntioned was a power supply board failure, not the CPU board.

Do you have any of the 3 red LEDs on your CPU board?

#68 5 years ago
Quoted from fluxgold:

pull out the power from cpu board while its running

Unplugging a power connector from any board while a game is on is a potential for damaging a board.

Have you tried the CPU board in another game?

#70 5 years ago
Quoted from fluxgold:

well i just did that with the power of the cpu board of course ... its like switching it on and of. no i just have this pinball machine.

I am in total disagreement on that. You are now sending more current elsewhere when you do this, especially if you have all the boards connected.

Quoted from fluxgold:

if i turn of all cables at cpu board just leaving 5v power cable then Pia and 5v is on and don't turn off. if i pull out the power from cpu board while its running then dmd display always go on and show rev and the it turns of. fuse f5 sometimes blow up .

Does the F5 ever blow out when you only ever turn the game on and off using the power switch? Or it is only when you disconnecting the power connector from the MPU?

#71 5 years ago

I actually would like to see a picture of your Power supply and CPU in 2 separate pictures.

Quoted from fluxgold:

i want to change the 5 PIAs and hope that it fixes the booting .... what do you think ?

I do not suggest that as more troubleshooting is needed. There are other parts I had seem cause the PIA to stay lit.

Did you connect the CPU board into another game with just the power connector and see the same boot up failure?

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