DE Rocky Bullwinkle won't start.

(Topic ID: 99926)

DE Rocky Bullwinkle won't start.


By F348

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 71 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 days ago by PinballManiac40
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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There are 71 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 4 years ago

Good evening gentlemen.
My name is Paul and I'm new to this forum.
I'm a pinball collector (didn't come as a shock I guess) I live in Norway
and got about 33 pin's in my collection....+ other stuff...
Anyway, normally I manage to figure out my problems on my own, but this time I'm
stuck, got a Rocky Bullwinkle which I got as a project, the machine is all put together now
but it won't start....this happens when I start the machine:
It lights up all the GI's + you can hear "It's showtime"...and that's it,
no display (display is brand new) or blinking/insert lights....?!
Only GI light workes, I've checked fuses and all that....

So if anyone of you have any inputs, then please let me know...
would like my Rocky to work you know

Cheers!

#2 4 years ago

Check the batteries on the MPU board.
I had a R&B and was surprised to see that it would not boot
when the batteries were dead.....

John

#3 4 years ago

Sounds like the game isn't booting completely, similar to problems i had on my MPU board until I replaced it.

#4 4 years ago

hmmm....now I can't remember if I replaced those batteries or not..
but I'll look into it, thanks John

(other suggestions are still welcome )

#5 4 years ago

Could be the power supply pcb. I think position c-2 is a known cap to go bad and result in a dead machine. Check all your test points for proper voltage.

#6 4 years ago

This happened to me about a year ago - it turned out to be bad capacitors on the power board. I ended up replacing the whole board and now it works fine. Be warned: the other systems weren't accustomed to getting the proper power and the new board caused parts of the PPB to short out.

#7 4 years ago

I put an X-pin PSB in mine and it worked perfectly. Definitely snag one of those if you have the means.

#8 4 years ago

Yeah, I did replace my power supply as well with an xpin one.

#9 4 years ago
Quoted from F348:

hmmm....now I can't remember if I replaced those batteries or not..
but I'll look into it, thanks John

(other suggestions are still welcome )

Did you pull out and check the 2 fuses just below the power supply?

#10 4 years ago

Thank you for your inputs gents.
I forgot to mention, it HAS a brand new Rottendog Power SB,
i thought the old one was a goner, but still there's a fuse that
blows on the new PSB as well...F5
I don't have the manual for this game, but when I say, F5 fuse on the PBS blows
on upstart - did that help you guys??

Cheers!

#11 4 years ago

Internet pinball database has almost all SS manuals online, including for Data East.

http://ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=23

Go down to the Documentation section and you'll see the link to the full manual.

http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/23/Data_East_1993_Adventures_of_Rocky_and_Bullwinkle_and_Friends_Full_Manual.pdf

#12 4 years ago
Quoted from F348:

I don't have the manual for this game, but when I say, F5 fuse on the PBS blows
on upstart - did that help you guys??

You mean the original power supply board when you said PBS ?

#13 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

F348 said:

hmmm....now I can't remember if I replaced those batteries or not..
but I'll look into it, thanks John

(other suggestions are still welcome )

Did you pull out and check the 2 fuses just below the power supply?

These will be attached to the back of the backbox above the big capacitors on the left.

#14 4 years ago

PinballManiac40
Yes, I meant Power Supply Board (busy fingers)

Batteries are all good, replaced a little while back,
I've downloaded the manual, but I'm terrible when it comes to read the schematic.
So if I could (or anyone) figure out what F5 fuse from PSB did...then maybe it would be
a lot easier to find the problem

#15 4 years ago

Did you pull out and check the 2 fuses just below the power supply?

All the fuses on the PBB board (lower left board are good?)

Schematics on the attached link I had posted. I just can't view them at work. One of those IT things being blocked.
http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/23/Data_East_1993_Adventures_of_Rocky_and_Bullwinkle_and_Friends_Full_Manual.pdf

#16 4 years ago

Yes, I've pulled all fuses and they are all good, except for F5 on power supply board,
however there was two fuses on PPB which was 32V fuses, replaced them with
250V 5a SB + the F5 on the PSB, but still same problem am I afraid

There are 3 LED's on the MPU, I've noticed on Williams these blinks when things
are working properly, on this machine "+5V" and "blank" were stuck on....

Display is also dead (it's brand new) :/

#17 4 years ago
Quoted from F348:

+5V" and "blank" were stuck on....

That sounds correct. Every company does not build things the same way.

Did you buy a LED DMD or a new old style plasma orange display?
If you bought a new old style plasma orange display, you can test it out in many of the games you have in your collection.

#18 4 years ago
Quoted from F348:

Yes, I've pulled all fuses and they are all good, except for F5 on power supply board,
however there was two fuses on PPB which was 32V fuses, replaced them with
250V 5a SB + the F5 on the PSB, but still same problem am I afraid

Well, looking at the DE power supply schematic on page 69 and on the Rottendog schematic
http://www.rottendog.us/DPS004.pdf Looks like the F5 actually is a 4amp fuse, not 5amp.

This would be 32volt power to the solenoids. You can see on the schematic that it goes out to CN3, so I suggest unplugging that connector and see what happens when you turn on the game. Does the game now have the DMD display working? Does the F5 still blow with the CN3 disconnected.

If F5 does not blow out when CN3 is disconnected, then I suspect you have a coil that locks on (or is already completely frozen closed). You can physically look at all the coils to see if you have any coil wrappers that are burnt/black. Sign that that coil is shot and a transistor on the MPU/CPU board has fried.

#19 4 years ago

Also, can you take a picture of your whole MPU board when the game is on?

Not just want to look over the LEDs, but I want to look at the game ROM(s) and the jumper on the MPU to see what is selected. If someone changed the game ROM and do not have the right jumper setting, the game will not boot up.

I see you have a LW3, so you can swap the MPU boards and see what happens. Though, you still need to know the jumper setting, which should be listed in the manual(s).

#20 4 years ago

I think we (ehh..you) might be on to something here...
After I replaced those two 32V fuses on PPB and put in a 4A in F5 in PSB
and fired up the game - then I hear a coli "knock" and it didn't release until after a few sec,
so I guess that was when the fuse blew....
But I was unable to figure out which coil it was....

I still have a couple of ¤A fuses left, I'll try your suggestion by unplugging the CN3 connector,

I did try the LW3 display a few weeks back, it worked but was a bit messy since the dip switches
were set on LW3 and not Rocky, but I did see life!

I'll take a couple of pics for you of the MPU

Thanks a lot mate!

#21 4 years ago
Quoted from F348:

I did try the LW3 display a few weeks back, it worked but was a bit messy since the dip switches were set on LW3 and not Rocky, but I did see life!

Also take a picture of the DMD controller board on the back of the DMD speaker panel. There is 1 or 2 display ROMs on that board so depending on if you have one or two ROMs, jumper need to be on or off at R11. If this is configured wrong, nothing will be displayed on the DMD (assuming the DMD and DMD controller boards are good).

#22 4 years ago
Quoted from F348:

After I replaced those two 32V fuses on PPB and put in a 4A in F5 in PSB
and fired up the game - then I hear a coli "knock" and it didn't release until after a few sec,
so I guess that was when the fuse blew....
But I was unable to figure out which coil it was....

So after reading this F5 should not blow after removing CN3 and you should not hear any coils locked on when you turn on the game.

Then you can reconnect CN3 and lift the playfield and turn on the game briefly (one second each time) to hunt down which coil is locking on. Then you can either..
desolder the smaller guage wire from the coil that is locking on
or break off the transistor off the MPU that drives that coil that is locking on.

Once you stopped the coil from locking on then you should be able to continue to look at the DMD issue.

I suspect that the machine is not set on Free play and you will not be able to set that until you can get your DMD working. Though once you can turn on your game without a coil locking on, you can try to add coins and listen to see if you hear it adding credits. Add about 5 and I suspect you should be able to start a game even though you have no DMD display working at this time.

#23 4 years ago

Issues I am reading you have are
Coil locking on when turning on a game and blowing out F5 on the power supply
DMD is blank
no insert lamps are flashing (no attract mode)

Once you stop the coil from locking on at power up, I hope the attract mode starts. Then you can add coins to see if you can start a game.

#24 4 years ago

OK..
Removed the CN3 connector, fired it up
Fuse survived but no GI or display....just "it's showtime"

Coil(s)
There are two coils that knock's in with upstart, the
two bottom pop bumpers...see pic
I just had the game on for a split second to save the fuse.

I cant find any dip switch on the CPU, only dip switch I can find
is the one on the display board, and they were all set to OFF (!?!)

By inspection with the naked eye, I can't see any burned transistors or coils....

SANY0002.JPG SANY0003.JPG
#25 4 years ago

Can I cut the red wires on both coils, to disconnect them?

#26 4 years ago

Update: I spoke with my pinball repair guy, he told me I could cut the neg.wires from
the coils, so I did, then the problem moved on to the left slingshot, so I cut that
one too, but playfield was still dark after this...so I've decided to take the machine
down to my repair guy so he can check it out properly, besides I'm taking home
another DE machine tomorrow, Star Wars with a "launch ball issue" but I've read about it
here on the forum so hopefully it'll be a easy fix
Other wise, I know where to find smart heads!

Thank you SOO much for your time and help PinballManiac40
I really appreciate it!

#27 4 years ago
Quoted from F348:

Can I cut the red wires on both coils, to disconnect them?

Cut only the smaller wire. The power is daisy chained to the other coils with the thicker wire.

#28 4 years ago

OK. The DMD controller board is configured correctly.
Actually looks like the small ribbon cable to the CN1 of that DMD controller board is upside down.
Swap it over and see if the DMD starts working.

#29 4 years ago

The CPU board actually is small jumper wire toward the middle of the board.

I cannot see the pop bumper paper wrappers at all on the bottom one, so you have to look underneath.
Good chance only the transistor is shorted (most of the time you will not be able to tell they are bad unless you check them with an ohmmeter.

#30 4 years ago

oh bummer.. we are starting to make some progress.
At least he will get everything working for you at one time.

#31 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

OK. The DMD controller board is configured correctly.
Actually looks like the small ribbon cable to the CN1 of that DMD controller board is upside down.
Swap it over and see if the DMD starts working.

I tried the flip it, but still only "it's showtime"
GI lights comes on in the same moment I turn the game on, but goes dark after about 1 sec.
But I'll take a pic of the CPU tomorrow, and maybe you can tell me what transistors I should test
Getting kinda late here now you see

But IF you don't mind helping me out, then I can hold on to the machine here, and maybe
we can continue with this mystery cuz I'd love to get the game fixed as I've never played it and it does looks like
a fun game to play!
It's your call bud

#32 4 years ago

Up to you if you want to continue or take it in.

Well you certainly can use your LW3 to swap between to figure out the DMD problem.
Can be either ribbon cable, DMD controller board, the 2 pin red/black power connector to the DMD controller board, or the DMD.

Though it could be easier to start with trying the whole speaker panel out of the LW3 and connect it to power and the ribbon cable to the CPU board. Or you could just do one item at a time.

The 2 pin red/black power connector likely needs to be resoldered on the DMD controller board and the small ribbon cables are my first 2 suspected parts.

#33 4 years ago
Quoted from F348:

Thank you for your inputs gents.
I forgot to mention, it HAS a brand new Rottendog Power SB,

When I researched which brand of new PSB to get, I read a LOT of nightmare stories about those Rottendog PSBs causing all sorts of issues. I refused to buy one and instead held out for an X-pin.

#34 4 years ago

So page 32, shows Q8 and Q11 are the two transistors you will want to check with an ohmmeter to see if they are shorted. I expect them to be.

1 week later
#35 4 years ago

Any luck with this game?

#36 4 years ago

Hi there.
Sorry for slow reply, but I have looked into it, and I suspect I might have the wrong ohmmeter ..?!
I've seen This Old Pinball videos where they check TIP transistors, so I had a go on a power supply
board I had laying around here, just to practice a little before I remove the cpu from the machine.
I put my ohmmeter on "diode" which (on my meter) is also the function for test sounds (biiip)
The reading I get is waaaay off....on the right leg I get zip...nothing, in the middle I get bip sound, and
on the left leg I get 702 ?!?!!?
I've tried on a few different TIP's - same story...
Below you'll see a pic of my meter...
SAM_1492.JPG

#37 4 years ago

I've just learned that my meter is no good, it has diode and sound test put together, that dosen't work
so I need to get a new ohmmeter....

#38 4 years ago

I just use the ohms and not a diode check to measure transistors. Pretty much looking for a difference compared to other TIPs in the other solenoids.

Eh, just go and change the associated transistors and get that thing working.

Where are you at with the machine right now?

#39 4 years ago

I got to borrow a ohmmeter from a friend, but this was no good either
I'm testing on the powersupply board, on a random transistor...
still get bip in the middle, about 0,5 on the left leg and nothing on the right leg...

The machine in down in my basement - so maybe I'll pull out the cpu and have
another go....
(I know, I'm crap when it comes to these things on a pinball machine)

#40 4 years ago

Allright, pulled the board out and checked the CN19 transistors, (red ring)
with the meter, I only managed to check the left leg and they all gave me a
0,5 reading - and just for the fun of it I also checked the transisrtors at the bottom,
(yellow ring) but none of those gave me any kind of reading....
Uten navn.jpg

#41 4 years ago

The problem with your two coils would be Q8 and Q11.
Either check these against the others in the same row of transistors or just replace them.

#42 4 years ago

HI there.
Both Q8 and Q11 is fine.....urgh...

#43 4 years ago
Quoted from F348:

Both Q8 and Q11 is fine.

I would just change them.

#44 4 years ago

I seen transistors short in different ways.
Outer to outer, inner to one outer, or inner to the other outer.
You can use the regular ohm check with the 2k ohm setting to check for short. (Don't use the diode check for this.)

I just don't see it being anything other than these 2 transistors, so I suggest just changing them.

#45 4 years ago

Yes, I read in another Rocky problem thread that even the transistors give you a good reading on the ohm meter dosen't always means it's a good trans. so I hope you're onto something here.

Even if you twist your head, you can't think of ANYTHING else that could be wrong?

#46 4 years ago

I also had a blank DMD remember.....and that dosent have anything to do with CN19 I guess...

#47 4 years ago
Quoted from F348:

I also had a blank DMD remember.....and that dosent have anything to do with CN19 I guess...

No. Separate problem. This is where you need to swap both ribbon cables at a time to the LW3 to help aid figuring out this issue. If not a ribbon cable, then would need to move on to possibly swapping the DMD controller board, then finally the DMD at last.

You could swap the whole speaker panel assemblies between the games first along with both ribbon cables if you wanted, since it can even turn out to be the MPU as the failure.

#48 4 years ago

ok bud, I'll look into it
But my LW3 is packed up, but I guess Star Wars would do the same trick.

#49 4 years ago
Quoted from F348:

I guess Star Wars would do the same trick.

Yes, it would.

#50 4 years ago

Today I pulled out the cpu from SW and fitted it in Rocky along
with the ribbons - still no dmd or flashing inserts, just GI light and
C3PO saying something I can't understand, never heard he saying that fraise before...

I think I'm better off sending the machine to my mech guy, I think it's more to it than
the fried transistor, need a guy to run a full check on the machine

So what do you think bud? mind as well send it off?

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