(Topic ID: 172020)

Tech Help: LAH blowing fuses

By PanaPinResto

7 years ago


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7408 (resized).png
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Data_East_Last_Action_Hero_Tech_Chart.pdf (PDF preview)
#1 7 years ago

I putting together a LAH thats been in pieces for 4 years now. Im almost there but im having one(or two) last problems. When i apply power to the machine it blows both my F5 fuses on the psb and ppb. The machine boots and everything works otherwise. In a failed attempt to troubleshoot my problem I disconnected all the ppb connectors except the J1 and Ground. Replaced bad fuses and powered the machine back up. Then It blew the F1 fuse to the 32v Br2. The F5 fuses didn't blow this time though. Im not sure where to go next. FWIW, ive replaced or reflowed all my male and female connectors in the machine and replaced all caps on the psb. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Not sure where to go next.

#2 7 years ago

morning bump. mmmmmmm coffee

#3 7 years ago

Check and see if BR2 is shorted. Plug in everything except CN3 on the power supply and see if it still blows.

The same goes for the PPB. Plug everything in except J7. Check for a shorted BR2. Also check Q1-Q5 for shorts.

Assuming everything is plugged in correctly (sorry, had to ask), pulling CN3 and J7 will take the load off of those two circuits effectively isolating the power supplies. If the fuses still blow then we have a problem in the power supplies. If the fuses don't blow then we have issues with the associated coils and drivers.

Report back and we'll go from there.

#4 7 years ago

I checked all my br's and all test good. I did find a bad 36c transistor at Q1 on the ppb. It's been replaced. With new fuses and cn3 & J7 disconnected it does not blow fuses. As soon as I plug in J7 it blows the f5 ppb fuse.
I have a question about cn3 psb. The manual shows it gets 4 wires. 3 reds and a red/w. I only have 2 reds and a red/w. Am I missing something?
Thanks for the help

#5 7 years ago

Measure the impedance on the J7 harness pins to ground. Let me know which one is low and we can trace it out. Pins 1,2,3 and 5 (Blk/Wht, Blk/Wht, Vio/Yel and Gry/Yel) are the 50V to the flippers and pins 8 and 9 (Yel/Vio) are the 50V A side. One of these will read considerably lower than the rest.

I assume the Red/Wht is pin 5 of CN3. Which pins are the two Red wires? Pin 6 should be the playfield 34V, pin 7 should loop over to CN7 pin 3, and pin 8 is listed as cabinet 34V. I don't see any cabinet circuits using that so I'm guessing it's pin 8 that is missing.

Based upon this I'm going to assume that one of the 34 volt coils or diodes is shorted and the associated driver transistor is probably bad. Pull CN19 on the MPU board and measure the impedance from pins 3,4,6,7,8, and 9 to ground. If a driver is shorted it will tell us which coil is bad. Do the same thing with CN12 pins 5,6 and 8.

#6 7 years ago

If Q1 on the PPB was shorted, check the KickBack coil and diode.
This would also account for the F5 fuse on the PPB being blown.

Check Q1 again after the last test.
Chances are that it's toast again.

A Tech Chart might also help a bit.

Data_East_Last_Action_Hero_Tech_Chart.pdfData_East_Last_Action_Hero_Tech_Chart.pdf

#7 7 years ago

Connector pin 3 on j7 reads .6. It's violet/yellow

#8 7 years ago
Quoted from PanaPinResto:

Connector pin 3 on j7 reads .6. It's violet/yellow

That's the power line for the Kickback.
Check if the wire doesn't make any contact with metal parts.

#9 7 years ago

The coil was bad and the diode was backwards. Banded side goes to the bigger wire, correct? I replaced the coil and diode.

#10 7 years ago

Q1 is bad again. About to replace it now. It's the last tip36c in my box, I can't mess this up. It will take 2 weeks to get another one here.

#11 7 years ago
Quoted from PanaPinResto:

The coil was bad and the diode was backwards. Banded side goes to the bigger wire, correct? I replaced the coil and diode.

Correct.
Also check Q1 on the PPB.
Chances are it's blown again.

#12 7 years ago
Quoted from Inkochnito:

That's the power line for the Kickback.
Check if the wire doesn't make any contact with metal parts.

It's tight in there but it's not making contact with any metal.

#13 7 years ago

Ppb Q1 replaced. I checked j7-3 again and get no reading.

#14 7 years ago

Coil diodes are always reverse biased meaning the cathode (stripe or band) should go to the side with the power. In this case the cathode would be toward the Vio/Yel wire.

#15 7 years ago

Ok, I applied power and get the same results. F5 psb & F5 ppb fuses blow instantly. Sounds like coils are locking up. All the transistors on the ppb are good. I'll check the CPU transistors now.

#16 7 years ago

All the 102/122 transistors on the CPU are good. Any ideas?

#17 7 years ago

It's better than it was. It's not blowing fuses right away. The kicker is still locked on. The 36c is good,the 122 is good. I'm going to pull the board and check it's pre driver transistor. Anything else I should check?

#18 7 years ago

Pull CN19 from the CPU. Does it still blow the fuse? If not then look at Q13, Q7 and associated components on the MPU. There's a 2.7k hold down resistor (R30) on the base of Q13 that may have opened up if Q13 was bad. Also look at the 68 ohm resistor at R18.

#19 7 years ago

I'm looking at those now. All the pull down resistors seem to be the wrong value. R30,28,26,24,22,20 are all 1.7k. Is this a problem?

#20 7 years ago

I'm just going off the schematic. I assume if all are 1.7k (brown-vio-red) instead of 2.7k (red-vio-red) it must have been a factory mod. I can't imagine any reason anyone would change them all out.

If it doesn't blow fuses or pull in the kicker with CN19 unplugged then my money is still on Q13 and/or Q7 but if they are good then your looking at the 7402 NOR Gate. Not really anything else to that circuit.

#21 7 years ago

Thanks Scott. I really appreciate the help. I'll check it after dinner and report back.

#22 7 years ago

Did your MPU boartd have any battery damage/leakage?
Has it been cleaned the right way?
The 7402 is right under the battery.....
Just a thought....

#23 7 years ago

It did not and any acid damage. This is not under the battery. It's a fairly clean board but it's still giving me trouble. I'm confused about the 7402. I'm not sure that's right. I was referring to the chips in the pic below. Manual and other internet pics show them as 7402 chips. Mine are 7408. This is a12 & b12 on a rev 3 data east CPU. Lah. I was under the impression the 7402 & 7408 were completely different chips.

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg

#24 7 years ago

I admit my TTL is a bit rusty but that doesn't make any sense at all. 7402 and 7408 are two different types of gates. The 7402 is a quad NOR and the 7408 is a quad AND. While they do share 2 truth table parameters the pin outs aren't even the same.

7402 (resized).png7402 (resized).png

7408 (resized).png7408 (resized).png

#25 7 years ago

It's fixed. Replaced them with 7402 and the machine works now. Must have been a bad repair. It's never worked, now I know why. Clays guides do say"7402/7408" for that spot. Maybe it's a mistake..

#26 7 years ago
Quoted from PanaPinResto:

I was under the impression the 7402 & 7408 were completely different chips.

#27 7 years ago

It's almost ready to play
I have a ball through switch that's acting funky and a ramp switch that's missing the actuator. Otherwise everything works great. Thank you to all who helped.

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg

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