(Topic ID: 138164)

DE Batman DMD fun... not really, I'm a broken man

By gern

8 years ago


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  • 60 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by terryb
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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There are 60 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 8 years ago

If you've been following the adventures of gern you'll realize I'm not a smart man. Case in point: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/lw3-dmd-not-showing-anything-i-really-messed-up

However I think I'm very close to fixing my DE Batman. The 68v went kaput on the Power Supply... I saw the flash and everything! I replaced the 68v leg and I know have 68v! But when I test the DMD I get a jumbled flicker and then nothing. I've read the the R95 resistor is prone to failing. But it seems odd that the 68v and that resistor would go at the same time, right? Or perhaps that's my exact problem and I should replace it.

Between the Batman and the still not working LW3, 2/3 of my tiny collection is up on blocks. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

#2 8 years ago

R95 has now been replaced and no difference. The resistor I took out tested fine. I does look like I have some leaky caps at c1 and c27. Here's a pic of what I'm talking about.

20150907_205833.jpg20150907_205833.jpg

1 week later
#3 8 years ago

The caps weren't leaky and tested fine. There is a piece of tape under the caps that has yellowed and looks like corrosion. Still having the same issue with the DMD giving me a flicker when it boots up and then nothing. I did notice that the R95 resistor is very hot once I turn the machine one. I'm going to replace it later tonight. Would a failed R95 be getting that hot?

#4 8 years ago

Have you reflowed all the bad solder joints? I see several that need attention.

DE BM DMD.jpgDE BM DMD.jpg

Have you verified the voltages with a meter?

[Edit] R95 is not the correct wattage. It should be the same size as the one next to it. Being a lower wattage resistor it is going to run at a higher temp and may flame out. Replace with correct asap.

#5 8 years ago

Just a little friendly feedback on the solder job on R95. You're putting on way too much solder, which in many cases risks bridging two pads. It also does not look like heat was applied to both the lead and the pad (notice on the bottom lead where you can spot a clear delineation between the pad and the solder). If the pad is not properly heated you can get cold solder joints and the solder will not flow through to the other side. Small point, but you typically want to solder from the bottom of the board--that will actually help prevent some of the other issues since it causes you to change your technique.

Compare your solder joints to the ones Cody marked as "good solder joints."

#6 8 years ago

Thanks all for the advice. I will check out the cold solder joints that cody took the time to point out. Thank you cody!

On the r95 I clipped the resistor legs and soldered to those per pinwiki. But I did get carried away in making sure they were connected. The replacement resistor was supposed to be the correct one. .. I thought it looked odd being that much smaller! I should be able to snag the correct one here at work.

Thanks again for all the advice everyone!

#7 8 years ago
Quoted from gern:

On the r95 I clipped the resistor legs and soldered to those per pinwiki.

Thanks, that explains a lot. Great respect for pinwiki, but I'm going to have to disagree on that one. Once you've clipped off the legs it's easy enough to pull out the leads with a solder sucker. Rule number one in soldering is have a good physical connection.

I should also add that's a really impossible way to try and solder and do a decent job--so you actually did pretty good.

#8 8 years ago

I touched up the spots that cody pointed out. Unfortunately I don't have a spare 33k 1/2 watt resistor. I'll get a few ordered tomorrow. Since I'm putting in an order, is there anything else I could order that may need to be replaced on the dmd?

#9 8 years ago

Unknown. Do you have these voltages on that black connector?

DE DMD Power Connector J2.pngDE DMD Power Connector J2.png

#10 8 years ago

On the black connector all the voltages are within tolerance. I had the exact values written down but I can't find it at the moment. But all the voltages coming in on J2 look to be good.

#11 8 years ago

My parts came in and I replace the resistor at R95 with the correct one. When I power up the machine I have the same problem. A bunch of pixels lite up then the DMD goes blank.

#12 8 years ago

Ribbon cable red stripe to pin 1 on both ends?

#13 8 years ago

The red stripe on the ribbon cable is on #1 pin on both ends. I'm wondering if there is anything on the DMD board that could be the issue. I wish I had another machine to test it in.

#14 8 years ago

Rotate that cable end-to-end.

Reseat all ribbon cables. Any that can be, rotate end-to-end, red stripe to pin1 on both ends.

#15 8 years ago
Quoted from cody_chunn:

Rotate that cable end-to-end.
Reseat all ribbon cables. Any that can be, rotate end-to-end, red stripe to pin1 on both ends.

I rotated and reseated the ribbon cables. Unfortunately it didn't make any difference. Gonna mess with the cables a few more times just in case.

#16 8 years ago

Damn. I really would not mind testing out your Power supply, ribbon cables and DMD.
Just I am a bit too tied up the next two weeks.

#17 8 years ago

I'm really thinking the issue is with the DMD board. I've swapped ribbons out to no avail. All the voltages to the DMD are fine. I'm thinking I need to find a way to test that DMD out.

1 week later
#18 8 years ago

Haven't had much time to look into this. I'm hoping this weekend I can do some testing on the dmd itself. Outside of that I'm not sure what my options are other than buying a replacement... that is if I can find one.

#19 8 years ago

Does anyone near you have a game with the same type display?

#20 8 years ago
Quoted from cody_chunn:

Does anyone near you have a game with the same type display?

Not anyone that I know of. I'm part of a Pinball Facebook group though. I could ask if anyone on their would be willing to test my DMD in their machine.

#21 8 years ago

I'm willing to test the boards and cables once I get some time for just the return shipping.
Any of the guys that repairs boards for a living will do for a fee and give an estimate for repair.

1 week later
#22 8 years ago

I didn't have any luck via the Facebook group. I think they may have deleted my post asking for help... so that was cute. I'd be more than able to send the DMD out to someone to test if anyone was willing. If there is someone close to my location I'd also be willing to drive the DMD to you to test. I'm really just stumped by the whole thing since it went out so fast.

PinballManiac40, if/when you get some time I'd totally send the DMD out to you and pay for the return shipping.

#23 8 years ago

Could you measure the voltages going to the DMD?
Would be nice to know if -112, -100v, and 62 volts are ok or not.

#24 8 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Could you measure the voltages going to the DMD?
Would be nice to know if -112, -100v, and 62 volts are ok or not.

The voltages from the Power Supply to the DMD all check out. I just checked them over and they were -111, -89 and 67. From what I've read they should be -110, -98 and 68. It does appear that my voltages are off but within 10%. But that now has me wondering if that is the issue.

#25 8 years ago

-89 is actually a bit low. It would be worth rebuilding that high voltage first. Can you do solder/part replacement on boards good?

#26 8 years ago

Is that the same dmd as DE Star Wars or LAH? I have both of those so if you find yourself up in my area stop by and we'll try them out.

#27 8 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

-89 is actually a bit low. It would be worth rebuilding that high voltage first. Can you do solder/part replacement on boards good?

I rebuilt the HV on the board and that's what got me to this point. So I must have mucked something up somewhere if the voltage is low. I have another power supply that should be on its way back to me soon that I can throw in there and test out. I should have enough spare parts to rebuild that negative high voltage leg though.

Thanks for the advice PinballManiac40. And thanks for the offer MustangPaul. Unfortunately the DMD for Batman is 128x16, so it's a bit smaller.

#28 8 years ago
Quoted from gern:

I rebuilt the HV on the board and that's what got me to this point. So I must have mucked something up somewhere if the voltage is low. I have another power supply that should be on its way back to me soon that I can throw in there and test out. I should have enough spare parts to rebuild that negative high voltage leg though.
Thanks for the advice PinballManiac40. And thanks for the offer MustangPaul. Unfortunately the DMD for Batman is 128x16, so it's a bit smaller.

Ah I see.

#29 8 years ago

You need to find someone with a Hook...

1 week later
#30 8 years ago
Quoted from cody_chunn:

You need to find someone with a Hook...

Don't I know it! If there is anyone close to me I'm all ears!

I got my power supply for my LW3 and put it back in and am without the negative voltages. So I can't use it to test in Batman. So it's looking like I'm going to rebuild the negative leg of the power supply and see if I can't get that -89 up to spec.

#31 8 years ago

I replaced the 12v zener at d11. That is for the -98v leg according to pinwiki. I verified that the zener I replaced it with was correct and now am getting -23v and -1v where before I had -111 ando -89.

I feel like I'm chasing ghosts here. About ready to buy a new power supply board off eBay... anyone got any advice or should I just give it up?

#32 8 years ago

Installed the zener diode backwards by chance?

#33 8 years ago

Could you post a picture of the front and back of the board?

#34 8 years ago

Here's a few pics. If you'd like to see a close up of a section let me know.

20151025_153013.jpg20151025_153013.jpg

20151025_153039.jpg20151025_153039.jpg

-3
#35 8 years ago

You need to buy a new board and quit trying to repair your boards until you get a lot better at soldering!

#36 8 years ago

I'm no expert but the back of that board looks pretty messed up.

#37 8 years ago

You've got a bunch of cold solder joints and several that look like they either are or almost are shorting between two pads. I would suggest working on your soldering before doing anything else.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/terrybs-soldering-guide-part-1

467919-1.jpg467919-1.jpg

#38 8 years ago

Lol. The board was messed up when I pulled it. But since it worked I thought it wouldn't be too bad to fix. I guess that's why it went up in smoke outta no where. It was surprising that it even worked initially especially when looking at the rectifier on the back. The front wasn't too bad but there were some lifted traces. I should have looked close at the boards before buying it... which is worrying considering where it supposedly came from.

I may try to clean it up more but it does seem that it may be a lost cause. Thanks to those that offered real advice and just didn't pop in to troll.

#39 8 years ago

Just clean it up (the really bad spots). Anything can be fixed with a little time. I've done worse and have seen worse, and those boards actually worked(at a job where anyone and everyone was picking up a solder iron to stay away from actual labor just to look like they were doing something lol)! We all start somewhere. Some of it doesn't look too bad. I can see where you or the previous owner was trying to repair the traces, so it makes the solder job look way worse. Make sure you don't have it touching where it shouldn't be, and fix some of the cold joints,also make sure it has some solder on the through spots(not sure what they are called) where there is a trace on the top and bottom of a hole......look and make sure all your parts are in the right spots, and going the right direction... it will probably be fine. I'm no expert, but can do enough to get by. Keep at it! You'll get it! If not? well, buy a new board then! lol It looks far from a lost cause yet! It still has hope!

#40 8 years ago

Where did it come from supposedly? PM me if you don't what to say publicly.

#41 8 years ago
Quoted from terryb:

You've got a bunch of cold solder joints and several that look like they either are or almost are shorting between two pads.

Yep agreed. I think your issue is probably at the capacitors, just guessing of course, but if you've never pulled one 9 out of 10 times the solder pad gets removed with the cap's leg and no more contact. I did that on my first cap change and boy it took me a while to realize what I had done..even though the replacement went very smooth and cleanly. I just never noticed the faint circle pad around one of the legs till I fished it out my box a week later and examined it. You'll have to ring out the traces and put in a jumper wire if the trace is bad.
sttng_jumpers_small.jpgsttng_jumpers_small.jpg

1 week later
#42 8 years ago

I got a replacement power supply in and the -98v is reading -87v. So I'm having the same issue with this brand new board. As PinballManiac40 pointed out that voltage seems a bit low. Is there any chance that I have an issue somewhere other than the Power Supply?

I also put the new Power Supply in my LW3 and the voltages measured exactly the same.

#43 8 years ago

Disconnect the output from the board and see if the voltage comes up. Something downstream could be pulling the voltage down.

#44 8 years ago
Quoted from terryb:

Disconnect the output from the board and see if the voltage comes up. Something downstream could be pulling the voltage down.

I just tested with only CN1 and CN2 hooked up and there was no change in the voltage output.

#45 8 years ago

According to the guy who builds these boards the voltage is correct according to the parts specified on the board. I bought the board on eBay and the guy evidently makes the boards himself. I'm not sure if that voltage is ok or if it should be higher and that is why I have no DMD. But I do get the rom version on start up so perhaps that voltage is enough and I have an issue somewhere else.

#46 8 years ago

Time to look other places then. Based on your last comment I presume you get the ROM version on the display when you power the game on, but then nothing after that? If so then the controller is booting up--doesn't mean it's not the problem, but it's not completely dead either.

It could be the DMD, the controller, the CPU or the interconnects. First thing I would do is check all of the ribbon cables, make sure they're not a pin off or one end reversed. At that point the easiest way to narrow down display problems is to test the boards in another game. This is not my normal approach to repair, but troubleshooting display problems with a scope/logic probe gets pretty deep into circuit design, and their really is no easy way to walk someone through it.

#47 8 years ago
Quoted from terryb:

Time to look other places then. Based on your last comment I presume you get the ROM version on the display when you power the game on, but then nothing after that? If so then the controller is booting up--doesn't mean it's not the problem, but it's not completely dead either.
It could be the DMD, the controller, the CPU or the interconnects. First thing I would do is check all of the ribbon cables, make sure they're not a pin off or one end reversed. At that point the easiest way to narrow down display problems is to test the boards in another game. This is not my normal approach to repair, but troubleshooting display problems with a scope/logic probe gets pretty deep into circuit design, and their really is no easy way to walk someone through it.

I don't get anything when I boot the pin up other than sometimes I get a brief flicker on the DMD.

I started a thread in hopes that there is someone close to me that I can bring the DMD to and have them test it. Unfortunately I don't know anyone that has a machine with the 128x16 DMD.

#48 8 years ago

Got a logic probe or scope?

#49 8 years ago
Quoted from terryb:

Got a logic probe or scope?

I do!

#50 8 years ago

No guarantees, as I said it's hard to walk someone through this.

On the DMD controller board check all of the pins for activity on the cable that goes to the cpu. Other than blanking and ground they should be pulsed.

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