(Topic ID: 253356)

DE Attract Mode Buzz - Could this be the culprit?

By jimgravina

4 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 18 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by stoptap
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 4 years ago

Going to start by saying I just got into all this pinball stuff about a month ago (and have learned a lot from everyone here). With that being said, I’m pretty new to all this troubleshooting stuff so forgive me ignorance on some of this stuff.

While trying to fix the 60hz hum and the attract mode buzz coming from the speakers, I had removed the sound board completely. After firing up the game I could still hear the attract mode buzz (though very faint).

After listening closely to the MPU board I realized the buzz was coming directly from the “flipper board relay RY1.” I put a microphone directly to the component and the buzz is definitely coming from there.

For whatever reason, the attract mode light show signal is being picked up by this relay, and then amplified by the speakers.

Is the relay bad? Could a replacement relay solve this? Is something not filtering correctly? How or why would a flipper board component pick this up in the first place?
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#2 4 years ago

Idk, what's the torroid next to the relay?

#3 4 years ago
Quoted from Zitt:

Idk, what's the torroid next to the relay?

If it's the same part (red-wired donut held to board with hot glue) that's on my DE Simpsons, it's an "inductor", whatever that is:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fs-data-east-simpsons-300-seaford-long-island-ny#post-1728911

#4 4 years ago

My MPU schematics is saying it’s a “lamp B+ filter”

I’m assuming this is not filtering the lamps signal correctly and it’s getting passed into the relay? Thought also passing through my speakers?

I’m pretty new to all of this but logically it seems to make sense? The game plays fine, so I’m assuming the relay component is not bad.

#5 4 years ago

After further investigation, it does seem like the buzzing is generating from that toroid. After placing the mic against that, it’s much louder from that component as opposed to the relay.

If this is indeed the culprit which I think it is, how do we rectify this? New part? Or is it something else going INTO this that’s causing the issue?

#6 4 years ago

A toroid is a type of Inductor.
I was pointing out that I'd suspect anything near that Inductor or maybe it and of itself.
Given you've already indicated it's a LAMP filter... it seems plausible that toroid is part of the problem.

I don't think there is anything "WRONG" with these components; only that their proximity is suspect. And given the problems we all have with feedback/hum... it's likely a design defect.
Given the "filter" is louder; it could be that the filter is causing feedback into a near by circuit.
The question is … do any of the audio circuits / power supplies have proximity near this toroid?

#7 4 years ago

So the toroid is indicated by the red circle in the photo (under the wires).

And the power and sound boards are outlined in blue...

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#8 4 years ago

Seems like I am also hearing it from all other toroids on the MPU board and sound board...thought it was just the one but seems like all of them are generating that noise...

#9 4 years ago

I hope you figure it out. The noise drives me crazy.

#10 4 years ago

The toroid could be introducing induced current into any of the audio circuits.
That said; a quick proximity check indicated to me that the two parts of the circuit are pretty isolated... at least from an MPU board perspective.
I think the toroid is just a symptom of the larger problem... IE the current flowing into the switched lamp drivers is massive and is just loading the transformer in general which leads to "the singing" being represented throughout the system including the sensitive audio circuits.

I'd be happy to be wrong tho.

#11 4 years ago
Quoted from Zitt:

I'd be happy to be wrong tho.

Me too but unfortunately I believe you are on the right track...now, is there a solution is the question

#12 4 years ago

I just played some games on mine … I don't have the buzz... well nothing I can hear of the fan anyway.
If I had the buzz; I was going to pull the board and look at the Ceramic caps on the output of the 3 output amps (MB3730 U31-U33).

Those should really be polypropylene caps:
http://aeaaudio.com/audiophile-quality-capacitors-going-beyond-the-simple-re-cap/
and
Mr Carlson's Capacitor video.

I'm betting those caps in the audio section are ceramics... and if so; Mr Carlson sums it up quite nicely:

I wonder out loud if fan vibration is some how causing those ceramic caps to sing. Doubt it; but it'd be an interesting experiment.

At this point; I'm more inclined to believe the +12V circuit is to blame. It'd be real interesting to see a capture of the "hum" as it compares to the 12V supply at CN2-6 on an oscope.

It's also be interesting to see if the hum is coming from one specific speaker.

#13 4 years ago
Quoted from Zitt:

It's also be interesting to see if the hum is coming from one specific speaker

Well it’s not really a “hum.” I solved that by wiring up an aux power supply to power the sound board. Now I no longer get the 60hz hum.

Hey this is more of a “buzz” whenever the attract mode buzz lights dance. The buzz is in perfect sync with the light show. The buzz is mostly coming from the left speaker...it’s definitely much more prominent in that speaker.

I also have a bit of an overall “white noise” that’s coming out of all speakers but that doesn’t bother me as much (but would also like to clean that up too).

And what fan are you referring to? I didn’t realize these machines had fans?

#14 4 years ago

Hey guys, here is a video I made of the noises I threw up on youtube. May have to pump up the volume a but, but you will hear it. White noise more prominent on the right speaker....attract mode buzz more prominent in the left.

#15 4 years ago

Dest has a backboard fan at one of the vent holes on top.

#16 4 years ago
Quoted from Zitt:

Dest has a backboard fan at one of the vent holes on top.

No no fan...

5 months later
#17 4 years ago

Sorry to bring back an old thread, but my BTTF used to make the same loud buzzing sound during attract mode. I just replaced all the stock speakers with Flipper Fidelity and the buzzing is much much much lower. Doesn’t even bother me anymore, but YMMV. So while it doesn’t solve the problem completely, it helps remedy it. Plus the added bonus of better quality audio.

#18 4 years ago

Tarnished grounding points on the backs of the circuit boards can contribute to the buzz. I had bad GI buzz on my Rollercoaster Tycoon. I had to remove the main board to do a little work. Before I put it back I cleaned up the mounting posts and the ground contact pads (the flat area of solder that touches the mounting posts when you screw the board to the game). The buzz has all but disappeared.

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