(Topic ID: 204070)

Day number 35 Alien refund request


By Davidus56

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 73 posts
  • 36 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by fishmanrob
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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  • Alien Heighway Pinball, 2017
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17
#1 1 year ago

I paid for a Full Throttle and Alien LE in full February 2017 based on the promise that I would get my pins by summer. Andrew (then CEO) obviously lied to me. The new owners/management, with my money paid in full, have little incentive to come thru. Multiple requests have fallen on deaf ears. I even asked that they just send me the Full Throttle - which is a mature game with stable code. No acknowledgement. Nothing. I’ve given up and have asked for a full refund, but given their poor customer communication, I seriously doubt they will honor this request. I will update this thread daily based on progress or lack there of.
My thanks to ‘RandomguyoffCL’ for suggesting this course of action.
I guess another thread will detail my day to day travails once I initiate legal proceedings (which seems unavoidable now).

#2 1 year ago

I wish you the best of luck. Its nonsense like this that makes it hard, correction impossible to have any confidence in this new company. How can anyone trust this new company for support down the road? No matter how good this theme is, it makes no sense to jump in at this point. This new company needs to refund all those who have requested refunds, not just a smattering here and there...Until all the refunds are processed, no one should be giving them anything....

#3 1 year ago

So effing sad.
Good luck to you.
Will be following.

#4 1 year ago

I am so sorry for you.

I hope you are able to recover your money plus recovery costs.

LTG : )

-7
#5 1 year ago

Another day, another day of silence. Hopefully Houdini, P3 and JJP will go smoother. I’ve lost all hope for Dutch Pinball and TBL. I guess this is how socialists, living in socialist countries, do business.

#6 1 year ago

Do you have a receipt of payment? And have they acknowledged receiving the funds? Seems odd that they wouldn’t post a Full Throttle.

I paid in Feb/Mar and ended up sending them proof that I paid Heighway.

#7 1 year ago

Is there must be something that can be done legally? I'm not familiar with UK law, but I'm sure they have something in place for cases of fraud.

#9 1 year ago

It's pathetic. They have had money since 2015 and no longer respond to emails. They promised 60 days and that was about 55 days ago.

Let's talk legal action as that's where I'm now at. Figuring the legal route will cost them more than just issuing my refund, but we may have to go after them. I'm close to filing and getting a group together against them.

#10 1 year ago

Good luck!!!!!

#11 1 year ago

I wouldn't wait. The new owners are banking that none of you will put your money where your mouth is; that's why they aren't even bothering to respond.
A lawsuit / lawyer letter head would go a long way in "encouraging" them to refund.

#12 1 year ago

Letter From the new team at HWP:
“Hi
We are writing to update you as you committed to buy a pinball machine from Heighway Pinball, before we took over management of the company from Andrew Heighway in early June. There has also been much speculation on the various Pinball forums, and from some journalists, about what is going on at the company so we wanted to tell your directly as you have a vested interest in our company!
Nearly 6 months ago, we took over a business with a not quite finished Alien machine, an empty bank account, many refund requests, paid for and deposit down orders, supplier and other bills and hardly any parts at the factory with which to make machines.
We had hoped that more of you would have had their machines by now but due to technical delays, unforeseen bills and more refund requests than anticipated, to mention some, it is taking a little longer than we planned. We think that the extra time we are spending on quality control is paying off. The feedback we are now receiving on the Alien is good from customers. There are still improvements to be made but we are working on these every day.
We know that it has been frustrating sitting on the outside not knowing what is happening, but it has been just as frustrating for us, due to all the unknowns and uncertainties that have emerged since June. If we say something one week, we might have to change it the next week due to new developments. The difficult aspect for us is, as proven, whenever we have said anything it has been twisted and turned on social media and some of it has spun out of control. That is why we have decided to limit information from our side on these forums and keep our focus on getting the product out of the door at the right quality. We also see that many of the social media comments are honest reactions and comments, but some seem to be posted to pour gasoline on the fire, even from people that we do not have on our order book. We hope you can understand our choice of ”silence” in this matter. Factory updates will be posted on our Facebook page. We promise to be in direct contact with all of our pre-order customers with good news and bad and, as soon as we have the planned production week for your machine, we will tell you. We hope to have delivered the machines to all of you by late Q1 2018, but please don’t kill us if it takes a little longer. Unforeseen challenges surface every week and we solve them and keep moving forward.
All of the investors, that have now stepped in, were in the same situation as all of you until June, with ”lost money” on anything from a pre-order deposit payment to mulitple fully paid for machines. Just to make it clear, none of us have received any machines yet either and we have put all of our old "money down" orders at the back of the production queue. We will not get any machines we paid for before June until you have yours.
It was a big decision for us to step in and a very significant financial and time commitment. We believe that the prospects for those that ordered machines is much, much better now than they were in May.
We have made real progress and are now shipping the re-vamped SE machine, with much improved code and are working on further improvements. As we posted on our Facebook page, the next run of machines to be shipped will include both SEs and LEs and we know most of you have pre-ordered LE machines. We have paid many refunds dating from the pre-June period and we have also made amends to some who received pinball machines from Andrew Heighway.
In order to maximise production of machines for our Distributors and for you, we have adopted a clear strategy and cashflow plan that prioritises production of machines over all aspects of the business. In this regard, we have a production/ cashflow schedule that deliberately spreads the shipping of pre-ordered machines and remaining refunds from the previous CEO's time over a number of months. Similarly on the fixes for the machines shipped in the first months of this year. You will get your machines but we will not ship them all together. We have to do it this way if we are to continue to turn this business around, having decided to save it in June. We have your orders and plan to ship to you all. Some of your orders date back to 2014!
On the LEs, there are two coming pieces of news. Firstly, the 3 trims of the LE are currently being made up. Once we have them back at the factory, we will show you pictures of the production choices you have; Black, Blue and Green. In addition, we have negotiated with Roman Glass the option to supply their Roman/ PDI glass on our machines. This add on is offered at $250/ £195/ €220 once Roman's first pallet arrives at the factory during December.
The technical aspects and the support for the games is one of our primary focuses. At this moment in time we do not have a complete technical manual for the machines but this is currently in development as an online resource. The support structure for customers is also going through a transition as we hope to help in any way possible with any issues that may arise with the machine. This is a process and we are improving our procedures every dayto get the best possible online reasources.
We are hard at work here and wholy committed to getting machines to you all as soon as we can. This has been a difficult situation for all parties involved but we are getting through these difficulties together. Fundamentally we are all passionate about pinball and want to see the expansion of this great hobby. Alien is the first step to this and with the commitment from all of us here at Heighway Pinball we will make this expansion a reality.
We hope that this update is helpful.
The Management “

—— anyways! Now that we got their memo out of the way. Seems pretty clear that You will all have your refund or game by end of Q1 2018 or a bit after. But let this be a lesson to you all. Stop preordering games. You should be extremely happy they got new investors or you would all be shit out of luck. Trying to sue the new investors is quite possibly the dumbest thing you could possibly do. But then again you did pay 8k because some guy told you too for a magical pinball machine that didn’t exist.

#13 1 year ago
Quoted from VividPsychosis:

You will all have your refund or game by end of Q1 2018. Let this be a lesson to you all. Stop preordering games. You should be extremely happy they got new investors or you would all be shit out of luck. Trying to sue the new investors is quite possibly the dumbest thing you could possibly do. But then again you did pay 8k because some guy told you too for a magical pinball machine that didn’t exist.

Is it me. Or does this just seem weird ?

LTG : )

#14 1 year ago
Quoted from LTG:

Is it me. Or does this just seem weird ?
LTG : )

I'm pretty sure those are VividPsychosis 's words, and not a quote from the heighway email.

#15 1 year ago

The heighway memo is the bulk of my post. The last paragraph is from me.... hence it being outside the “ “

13
#16 1 year ago
Quoted from Davidus56:

Another day, another day of silence. Hopefully Houdini, P3 and JJP will go smoother. I’ve lost all hope for Dutch Pinball and TBL. I guess this is how socialists, living in socialist countries, do business.

I know you're upset, but keep in mind, not everyone is like this and you probably shouldn't paint everyone from the Netherlands with the same brush. Pinside's home base is in the Netherlands, after all

#17 1 year ago
Quoted from LTG:

Is it me. Or does this just seem weird ?
LTG : )

It pops up when we are thinking about a lawsuit. It's copied from someone else quickly. It seems very strange.

I'm off some days next week and will probably contact some attorneys regarding our course of action.

#18 1 year ago
Quoted from Davidus56:

I paid for a Full Throttle and Alien LE in full

ouch!!

what's the deal with the full throttle, aren't those sitting in stock at cointaker?

I sent morgan 2 emails that were left unanswered once per week. then they sent that letter out, a week after I sent another email and got a response. I know they are busy, but there isn't any reason not to respond to a refund request. Most realize that it will be a very long time before we get them, if ever. Just good to have some sense of closure.

I sincerely hope they make it work, but it might help their cause if they were a little more transparent to help ease people that are on the fence. Which means, hiring someone to only respond to emails if that's what it takes.

#19 1 year ago
Quoted from LTG:

Is it me. Or does this just seem weird ?
LTG : )

No, I promise it is not just you.

#20 1 year ago
Quoted from Taxman:

No, I promise it is not just you.

Nothing wierd about it at all. You guys need to learn to read. Part of that post was from HW and was in quotations, while the final paragraph was from me.

#21 1 year ago
Quoted from VividPsychosis:

Nothing wierd about it at all. You guys need to learn to read. Part of that post was from HW and was in quotations, while the final paragraph was from me.

Yes, and the last paragraph is where you come off as preachy...the people who have money at risk dont want to be lectured to...

#22 1 year ago

"we mean to. we hope to. we plan to. but we got dealt a bad hand, have no money or parts, and have no way to anticipate the countless unexpected changes that occur on a day-to-day basis. so don't hate on us if we fail."

see how much shorter that memo could have been?

#23 1 year ago

Yeah, they owe me $2400. I'm past 60 days as well. They won't respond to me either. POOR BUSINESS PRACTICE for sure! I'm thinking of contacting an attorney to see what can be done as well.

#24 1 year ago

As a pre order guy im lucky that I did not pay in full. Unlucky that I ordered the std with pdi glass. A few emails to heighway about "is my game arriving anytime soon?" went unanswered. A simple "we haven't secured the glass yet but are planning on dec to fill the order for the upgraded glass" would have at least set my expectations at a more reasonable level.

I see both sides point of view. Legal action is required because heighway ignores the full skin in the game people who now want refunds. They can ignore the "where's the money lebowski" emails, but they can't ignore legal proceedings if brought. It would not be stupid of them to think that this method would work, because eventually they would have a perhaps better route to the refund, instead of sitting and hopping it works out.

Then again a lawsuit will throw ye old monkey wrench into the gears of progress. In the email(which I though was finally my payment to ship confirm email) they state there is a plan moving forward to make everyone whole. Lawsuits will make this plan more difficult. The track record of HP hasent been great at meeting expectations and deadlines. At this point I think they need the pre order $ to get money flowing in. And legal proceedings might delay or derail the entire game.

If you don't trust/can't wait the for the Hp NOS owners to follow their plan to make it whole, I wouldn't think any less of you folks who join in on the refund lawsuit.

#25 1 year ago

The issue you all are having is by thinking these are the people who took your money....it isn’t. It isn’t the same company, it isn’t the same people. they just kept same name.... so if you wanna sue these new people who have nothing to do with stealing your money go for it. But be aware, that if you do, you likely just ruined any chance of getting your money or your game. International lawsuits don’t usually go well in regard to monetary payments. Their laws aren’t like American laws when it comes to payment, also, they could just claim bankruptcy and not pay any of you.....and you will fuck everyone else because you couldn’t wait a year for new investors to pay you back money they didn’t even take from you or make you a game that they already said they were gonna make you as they had the funds for it. (And no they shouldn’t have the funds for it from your money, cause Andrew spent that, not them.)

What if the new investors just closed up shop, reopened open shop with a new name and continued to make the game as is after buying the use of ip rights given to Andrew.... then you all would be sol.... but I guess you don’t think about that. If you wanna sue someone, sue Andrew the person. This new company has already released a memo about them being silent and their plan to make you whole.

#26 1 year ago

This is my last post to this forum. I understand your frustration and that some of you see my posts as being anti-your cause, which I am not. I am trying to speak from a place of experience here. My family sued through international law over bodily harm and damages due to a company in Europe that caused my mother overnight 50k in damages. We sued, it cost well over 10k, took over 2 years and in the end, when they were found at fault, they filed for bankruptcy and we got nothing..... a lawsuit will cost you more than 8k, Likely take many years to complete and likely not produce much monetary value as you using international law, which is notoriously low in regards to those types of payments. So yeah, waiting 6 months doesn’t seem so bad when you look at it from a logical perspective. Anyways, good luck with whatever you decide. If I was you, I’d give the new company a chance to get you your game and or money as they stated they would and have already begun to make people with prototype games and refunds whole.

#27 1 year ago
Quoted from VividPsychosis:

Also, a lawsuit will cost you more than 8k, take over 2 years and likely not produce much monetary value as you using international law, which is notoriously low in regards to those types of payments. So yeah, waiting 6 months doesn’t seem so bad when you look at it from a logical perspective.

Also, I don’t get it. Why pay in full when providing a $1,500 deposit will preorder the same game, lock you in at the price, and have less risk exposure. Please understand I’m sympathetic to worries and I hope everyone gets their refund or game... I genuinely would like to understand rationale.

#28 1 year ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

Also, I don’t get it. Why pay in full when providing a $1,500 deposit will preorder the same game, lock you in at the price, and have less risk exposure. Please understand I’m sympathetic to worries and I hope everyone gets their refund or game... I genuinely would like to understand rationale.

Was promised that my machine would be "in the first shipment of games to the U.S."...

Was very lucky, it seems, to get my paid in full refund.

#29 1 year ago
Quoted from nephasth:

Was promised that my machine would be "in the first shipment of games to the U.S."...
Was very lucky, it seems, to get my paid in full refund.

So people are paying in full to get into the front of the line? I thought that was frowned upon, right now in the Alien thread I read about people who are paying for standards in full and going to the front of the line... and people are getting upset.

#30 1 year ago
Quoted from Buju:

They can ignore the "where's the money lebowski" emails, but they can't ignore legal proceedings if brought

Depends...you’d have the serve them somehow, will be harder and more expensive than you are thinking. If you managed to serve them and they didn’t bother to answer and you got a default judgement (which is likely your best case scenario) you’d have to domesticate it over seas, will be harder and more expensive than you are thinking. If you domesticate it you’ll have to collect it, there may be little or nothing to collect and they may bankrupt anyway.

They may have little fear of US based litigation.

#31 1 year ago

I paid nothing a month ago and was placed on a list by CT, a reputable American dealer, and paid in full yesterday. I will get my game Friday. Like I said, don’t preorder games. It’s just bad practice. When they ship, order. Save yourself a headache.

#32 1 year ago
Quoted from VividPsychosis:

I paid nothing a month ago and was placed on a list by CT, a reputable American dealer, and paid in full yesterday. I will get my game Friday. Like I said, don’t preorder games. It’s just bad practice. When they ship, order. Save yourself a headache.

Buying from CT is safe. There may be a win-win in this. Buy a ton from CT as it's safe and then pay when your games are shipped.

I'd take a game, but my refund request was because I do not think Heighway will be around to make game 3. It would make everyone happy if they just communicated things.

A lawsuit will probably kill the company as it may force bankruptcy. I have no idea what to do and having lost with Jpop and Kevin, I don't want #3.

#33 1 year ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

So people are paying in full to get into the front of the line? I thought that was frowned upon, right now in the Alien thread I read about people who are paying for standards in full and going to the front of the line... and people are getting upset.

This was years ago. I preordered a day or two after it was announced.

#34 1 year ago
Quoted from hank527:

Buying from CT is safe. There may be a win-win in this. Buy a ton from CT as it's safe and then pay when your games are shipped.
I'd take a game, but my refund request was because I do not think Heighway will be around to make game 3. It would make everyone happy if they just communicated things.
A lawsuit will probably kill the company as it may force bankruptcy. I have no idea what to do and having lost with Jpop and Kevin, I don't want #3.

And personally, I feel the new management at HW will get you your refund. Not sure there is much else to be said. They said it will happen, now it just comes down to their timeframe, which they claim is end of Q1 2018. Sorry that you guys have to deal with it, but as I have said, use it as a lesson. Do not pre-order anymore. There is literally no incentive to do so, but TONS of risk.

#35 1 year ago

I paid in full because Andrew promised, if I did so, he would push me to the front of the line. That was before this practice became frowned upon.
Since I bought an Alien AND Full Throttle, the very least Heighway should do (for now), is ship me my Full Throttle.
I suspect the folks that have not paid in full will get their games - they have leverage. I have no leverage other than the threat of legal action. There are others in the same boat as I am. I think the writing is pretty much on the wall. We will never get jack. For me, the decision to sue (or not) is whether or not they will compromise and at the very least, ship me my Full Throttle. If they won’t even do that, then yes, I will sue them. The count down has started.

#36 1 year ago
Quoted from Davidus56:

I paid in full because Andrew promised, if I did so, he would push me to the front of the line. That was before this practice became frowned upon.
Since I bought an Alien AND Full Throttle, the very least Heighway should do (for now), is ship me my Full Throttle.
I suspect the folks that have not paid in full will get their games - they have leverage. I have no leverage other than the threat of legal action. There are others in the same boat as I am. I think the writing is pretty much on the wall. We will never get jack. For me, the decision to sue (or not) is whether or not they will compromise and at the very least, ship me my Full Throttle. If they won’t even do that, then yes, I will sue them. The count down has started.

Why don’t you just get one from Cointaker?

#37 1 year ago
Quoted from Davidus56:

I paid in full because Andrew promised, if I did so, he would push me to the front of the line. That was before this practice became frowned upon.
Since I bought an Alien AND Full Throttle, the very least Heighway should do (for now), is ship me my Full Throttle.
I suspect the folks that have not paid in full will get their games - they have leverage. I have no leverage other than the threat of legal action. There are others in the same boat as I am. I think the writing is pretty much on the wall. We will never get jack. For me, the decision to sue (or not) is whether or not they will compromise and at the very least, ship me my Full Throttle. If they won’t even do that, then yes, I will sue them. The count down has started.

You don't need leverage, they have already stated they have a plan in place to make you whole...but yes, they should work on getting you a FT in the mean time, but hey, atleast the new investors have an actual plan to get you your games.

10
#38 1 year ago
Quoted from VividPsychosis:

The issue you all are having is by thinking these are the people who took your money....it isn’t. It isn’t the same company, it isn’t the same people. they just kept same name.... so if you wanna sue these new people who have nothing to do with stealing your money go for it. But be aware, that if you do, you likely just ruined any chance of getting your money or your game. International lawsuits don’t usually go well in regard to monetary payments. Their laws aren’t like American laws when it comes to payment, also, they could just claim bankruptcy and not pay any of you.....and you will fuck everyone else because you couldn’t wait a year for new investors to pay you back money they didn’t even take from you or make you a game that they already said they were gonna make you as they had the funds for it. (And no they shouldn’t have the funds for it from your money, cause Andrew spent that, not them.)
What if the new investors just closed up shop, reopened open shop with a new name and continued to make the game as is after buying the use of ip rights given to Andrew.... then you all would be sol.... but I guess you don’t think about that. If you wanna sue someone, sue Andrew the person. This new company has already released a memo about them being silent and their plan to make you whole.

Totally agree with the tenor of the post, but one correction ... they assumed directorial control of the existing company. In my view it was a major misstep for them to take on the company as a going concern. They felt they knew how bad the situation with the machine's design was, how much had to be done, how much debt, how many lies, how much dishonesty, how much would have to be done to make all the botched prototypes sold to paying customers 'production'. AFAIK they were wrong on all counts. Some of them badly.

But for the people with skin still in this to throw their toys out of the pram and blame the guys who came in to try to rescue them, is not just shooting themselves in the foot, but the face.

The company was totally done, and no-one else was going to come in. It was over in June, and the proceeds of any subsequent liquidations would not have extended beyond the first category of preferred creditors, let alone to customers with deposits or full machines paid for. They could have pursued Andrew through the judicial process, for all his lies and misrepresentations, but likely wouldn't have seen a penny from it even if he was locked up.

This is an attempted rescue. The investors lose money every single day doing this. They are expending their money to try to help you. It seems almost impossible that they will ever reach break even, with Alien / FTh in production, given everything that is happening.

I think they've made a number of mistakes, but they are NOT to blame for this situation any more than the people with money in.

If anyone deserves the ire and vitriol, it's you-know-who.

Quoted from jonesjb:

Also, I don’t get it. Why pay in full when providing a $1,500 deposit will preorder the same game, lock you in at the price, and have less risk exposure. Please understand I’m sympathetic to worries and I hope everyone gets their refund or game... I genuinely would like to understand rationale.

A lot of people seemed to think they could make a deal with the devil and get away with it, despite knowing that all was not right. A very small % of them got a game, but as they quickly found out, one that wasn't by even the furthest stretch production ready, and in a number of cases barely even functioned on the most basic level. Without the new guys trying as best they can to fix things, all of these machines would be virtually worthless, as even the more reliable ones would eventually become unplayable bricks.

Others simply hadn't been following the happenings, didn't believe another Kulek / JPop type situation could manifest itself, or were just generally naive and hadn't encountered such chicanery before.

#39 1 year ago

DavidUS56 I totally understand your frustration! I was ready for a lawsuit also but after talking to Roger a few weeks ago I understand what they are going through. He laid all the cards on he table and I believe him. They get 100's of mails daily and simply can not answer them all.

I believe the last statement they made and rubberducks is spot on with his take on it I think. They are trying to right everyone but it will take time.

Try contacting Roger he is very nice guy and like you wished the situation was different but it is not. I have his phonenumber and will pass it on to you in a PM if you want to try and call him.

I am paid in full on an LE with all options so I am in the same boat as you. At this point a lawsuit will only flush more money down the drain and ruin every ones chances of getting their machines is my feeling.

Hang in there I personally believe they will make it.

#40 1 year ago

I’m waiting with you Davidus. Your situation is much worse. I just have a deposit down from day one

I agree with Tiger, they would have next to zero concern about any lawsuit. Total waste of $$$

#41 1 year ago

Still don't understand why davidus56 isn't going through Cointaker?

#42 1 year ago

I will go thru Cointaker in the future

#43 1 year ago

iceman44 why not just get one from CT and be happy while you wait on a refund for the small deposit? That way, you get a game soon, and eventually get your refund on a deposit sometime next year.... I bet the wait wouldn’t suck so bad if you had a machine in your house.

#44 1 year ago

rubberducks is spot on,
as he usually is with most things HP.

while we all can sympathize with OP,
I don't believe his suggested approach will resolve anything.

#45 1 year ago
Quoted from Davidus56:

I paid for a Full Throttle and Alien LE in full February 2017 based on the promise that I would get my pins by summer. Andrew (then CEO) obviously lied to me. The new owners/management, with my money paid in full, have little incentive to come thru. Multiple requests have fallen on deaf ears. I even asked that they just send me the Full Throttle - which is a mature game with stable code. No acknowledgement. Nothing. I’ve given up and have asked for a full refund, but given their poor customer communication, I seriously doubt they will honor this request. I will update this thread daily based on progress or lack there of.
My thanks to ‘RandomguyoffCL’ for suggesting this course of action.
I guess another thread will detail my day to day travails once I initiate legal proceedings (which seems unavoidable now).

I feel for you Brother. I had to back Andy-boy into a corner after 2 months by calling him out here publicly before he finally refunded me a few hours later, and that was just $1500 bucks. Waaaaaay done and over this preorder bs. Only one that ever came through was JJP in 2013. Lost my shirt in Pred crap paid in full. So much for supporting the new guys.

Heighway SEEMED different as Andrew had machinery, brick and mortar supposedly paid for before FTH was shipping, so of course Alien hopes were high. So props to this new type of failure, whatever went wrong.

I’m sure if someone was emailing them for a payment you’d get an immediate response!

#46 1 year ago
Quoted from greenhornet:

while we all can sympathize with OP,
I don't believe his suggested approach will resolve anything.

I don’t believe this whole Don’t Poke the bear aprroach is going to resolve anything either.

What’s Marks total? &40-$50k...about as much as a loaded up Honda Pilot.

Help us understand why a team of successful business men are unable or unwilling to muster up such a small sum in order to make threads like this just go away?

#47 1 year ago
Quoted from RandomGuyOffCL:

I don’t believe this whole Don’t Poke the bear aprroach is going to resolve anything either.
What’s Marks total? &40-$50k...about as much as a loaded up Honda Pilot.
Help us understand why a team of successful business men are unable or unwilling to muster up such a small sum in order to make threads like this just go away?

That was their expenditure top tier limit?

Andrew is actually still the ‘new guy’ investor?

Incoming refund emails are stacked so high it’s like trying to read pop up adware?

I joke about all these things but wasn’t ignoring refund requests the number one issue that started this?

#48 1 year ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

Still don't understand why davidus56 isn't going through Cointaker?

It's because back in 2014, I dug my emails and invoice out, Cointaker was not distributing Heighway.

It's obvious now, but back then we had not had this pre-order bubble burst just yet.

#49 1 year ago
Quoted from hank527:

It's because back in 2014, I dug my emails and invoice out, Cointaker was not distributing Heighway.
It's obvious now, but back then we had not had this pre-order bubble burst just yet.

Yes, but the topic creator ordered and paid in full just this past Feb to go to the front of the line.

#50 1 year ago
Quoted from RandomGuyOffCL:

Help us understand why a team of successful business men are unable or unwilling to muster up such a small sum in order to make threads like this just go away?

This. Successful business people know that the number one issue is under-capitalization. They would have modeled best, most-likely and worst case scenarios and given all the issues, gone with worst case. They would have applied the rule of startups...figure how much $ you need, add 10%, then double it. They would have looked at purchase options...from buying the business outright to only procuring certain assets. They would have known the importance of developing a comprehensive plan, including a communication plan.

Good on them for putting any $ into something that was clearly a dumpster fire and good on them for making some people whole but one can't help but wonder about their business acumen.

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