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(Topic ID: 72256)

DataEast - Lethal Weapon 3 (lw3) club - Join if you have one or haf one...


By mima

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 1,069 posts
  • 166 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 days ago by trueno92
  • Topic is favorited by 86 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“I am planing to make my self a set of repro plastics and are considering a making a very very limited run of sets. Are there any interest out there for this?”

  • I would run and grab me a set since there are no NOS made for this pin 43 votes
    43%
  • I would want to get a few single plastics, some are missing on my pin 39 votes
    39%
  • My pin has some beaten up plastics but I prefeer original plastics 3 votes
    3%
  • Nah, waste of moey. the pin plays well without / with warped and beaten up -plastics. 15 votes
    15%

(100 votes)

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There are 1069 posts in this topic. You are on page 21 of 22.
#1001 51 days ago

Just to chime in my game is functioning fine with the new code. I purposely let a ball drain after hitting the 1 and it just put one back in play.

#1002 51 days ago

Here is a video of what is happening on my machine. Again. all other functions that eject ball into the shooter lane have been tested at least 10 times now but only with LW1/3-sec ballsave this happens:

#1003 50 days ago

On an unrelated topic regarding the LW3 rom patch. If you ever decide to release an additional patch consider a feature that fixes the attract mode bug of the original rom that only allows the attract mode music to play ONCE when the game is turned on and ONCE after a game is played. Perhaps an audit setting where it can be disabled entirely, played only once after a game-over, or once every cycle of the attract mode DMD events.

#1004 50 days ago
Quoted from ChadH:

Check your outhole coil. Make sure that every time your ball drains, the ball is properly being ejected out of the outhole and into the trough. It should always do it in a single coil shot. Make sure the one-way gate inside your trough, on the underside of the cover, is functioning properly. The cover comes off with two screws under the cards. Give the whole area an inspection and cleaning.

No need check it is good.
This is a sw bug perhaps you put into the code the ball save from lw1 kickout everytime.

edit : you replied for another bug (20M instead of 40 on display)

#1005 50 days ago
Quoted from MoSeS_1592:

If you think of any other things to test or settings to change let me know.

Quoted from onlydjz:

No need check it is good.

I think this is fixable with code. But first I need to verify what is happening because my game (and many others) are not having this issue. I am suspecting a faulty Outhole switch, Trough switch, or a faulty coil eject process.... and that along with LW1 saucer Ball Save code that isn't checking for this issue is causing this problem in a few machines.

When the ball drains after ejecting from the LW1 saucer, can you lean in with a flashlight and watch the Outhole and the behavior of the ball in there? Is the ball bouncing around in there and having a difficult time with the eject into the trough? How many times is that Outhole coil firing?

Then can you both remove the apron (two screws under the cards) and check your Outhole switch and Trough switches in switch test mode? I want to make sure they are all behaving correctly and solidly and not over sensitive. Outhole is switch 10. Trough #1 Left is switch 11. Trough #2 Center is switch 12. Trough #3 Right is switch 13. Also try testing switch 10 and 11 (with your finger and with a ball) while switch 12 and 13 are both held down.

Basically, we need to figure out why it's happening on your machines and not others. If we can nail this down then we have a win-win situation. Win #1 is we can maybe fix your game to not do this with existing code... Win #2 is I can update the code to compensate for this situation.

Thanks for bringing this to attention. We will figure this out.

#1006 50 days ago
Quoted from MoSeS_1592:

On an unrelated topic regarding the LW3 rom patch. If you ever decide to release an additional patch consider a feature that fixes the attract mode bug of the original rom that only allows the attract mode music to play ONCE when the game is turned on and ONCE after a game is played. Perhaps an audit setting where it can be disabled entirely, played only once after a game-over, or once every cycle of the attract mode DMD events.

This is how all Data East games of that era behave (at least all the ones I am familiar with). All audio related events during Attract Mode are only played during the first sequence after boot up... and the first sequence after each game.

#1007 50 days ago

I tried many time but I'm not sure where is the bug.
By my video seems to be normal swichting behaviour. Or not? double click is interesting..

#1008 50 days ago
Quoted from ChadH:

This is how all Data East games of that era behave (at least all the ones I am familiar with). All audio related events during Attract Mode are only played during the first sequence after boot up... and the first sequence after each game.

Some of the early games will periodically play music.

#1009 50 days ago

Has anyone put in a shaker motor in their LW3? If so... does it add enough to the game? Hard to do?
I enjoy it in my DE JP. Thanks.

#1010 50 days ago
Quoted from MoSeS_1592:

Here is a video of what is happening on my machine. Again. all other functions that eject ball into the shooter lane have been tested at least 10 times now but only with LW1/3-sec ballsave this happens:

Cant say I have seen that happen on mine, with beta or final code.

#1011 50 days ago
Quoted from onlydjz:

I tried many time but I'm not sure where is the bug.
By my video seems to be normal swichting behaviour. Or not? double click is interesting..

The main switch I am concerned about is the Outhole switch. I did not see you test it in this video. This is the very first switch that is activated when you drain the ball. The display should show switch 10.

#1012 50 days ago
Quoted from ChadH:

This is how all Data East games of that era behave (at least all the ones I am familiar with). All audio related events during Attract Mode are only played during the first sequence after boot up... and the first sequence after each game.

Working in shop today, all of the following play attract music or effects periodically.

Phantom of the Opera, Time Machine and Robocop.

LAH with 1.13 software does not.

Hook will play a few times and then go silent.

#1013 50 days ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Working in shop today, all of the following play attract music or effects periodically.
Phantom of the Opera, Time Machine and Robocop.
LAH with 1.13 software does not.
Hook will play a few times and then go silent.

Yep... looks like the older Data East do it... the newer don't.

These don't:
Star Trek
Hook (does it for a few passes then stops)
LW3
Star Wars
R&B
Jurassic Park
Tales From The Crypt
Tommy
WWFRR
Baywatch (Sega)

#1014 50 days ago
Quoted from ChadH:

I think this is fixable with code. But first I need to verify what is happening because my game (and many others) are not having this issue. I am suspecting a faulty Outhole switch, Trough switch, or a faulty coil eject process.... and that along with LW1 saucer Ball Save code that isn't checking for this issue is causing this problem in a few machines.
When the ball drains after ejecting from the LW1 saucer, can you lean in with a flashlight and watch the Outhole and the behavior of the ball in there? Is the ball bouncing around in there and having a difficult time with the eject into the trough? How many times is that Outhole coil firing?
Then can you both remove the apron (two screws under the cards) and check your Outhole switch and Trough switches in switch test mode? I want to make sure they are all behaving correctly and solidly and not over sensitive. Outhole is switch 10. Trough #1 Left is switch 11. Trough #2 Center is switch 12. Trough #3 Right is switch 13. Also try testing switch 10 and 11 (with your finger and with a ball) while switch 12 and 13 are both held down.
Basically, we need to figure out why it's happening on your machines and not others. If we can nail this down then we have a win-win situation. Win #1 is we can maybe fix your game to not do this with existing code... Win #2 is I can update the code to compensate for this situation.
Thanks for bringing this to attention. We will figure this out.

I will test everything thoroughly and let you know what I find. I'll try to do it Tuesday, if not then over the weekend as my work schedule is pretty busy right now.

#1015 49 days ago
Quoted from ChadH:

Yep... looks like the older Data East do it... the newer don't.
These don't:
Star Trek
Hook (does it for a few passes then stops)
LW3
Star Wars
R&B
Jurassic Park
Tales From The Crypt
Tommy
WWFRR
Baywatch (Sega)

Oddly enough I was out in the other workshop with Torpedo Alley and Laser War on and didn't notice either one playing anything in attract mode. I swear Laser War did and will have to recheck for the hell of it, maybe when I installed NVRAM I don't enable it.

#1016 49 days ago
Quoted from Malenko:

chadh I gotta say Im loving the ROM so far, the game feels a million times better with all the little minor issues being resolved. I started the process of upgrading the Pin2DMD file and I'll release a ChadH edition shortly after your final release.

I think I have a spare because peteyhugs sent me two. I'll look tonight and shoot you a PM. If I can find it, I'll just send it to you.

I have more if needed.

Pete

#1017 48 days ago
Quoted from ChadH:

The main switch I am concerned about is the Outhole switch. I did not see you test it in this video. This is the very first switch that is activated when you drain the ball. The display should show switch 10.

Any other case there were no problems with the lane feed.
By now I put back the orig rom version and I enjoy the gameplay without any trouble.

#1018 48 days ago
Quoted from onlydjz:

Any other case there were no problems with the lane feed.
By now I put back the orig rom version and I enjoy the gameplay without any trouble.

Off course I did the check the switch in question.

#1019 48 days ago

I have a LW3 for sale in Middle TN, PM me if interested.

#1020 48 days ago
Quoted from ChadH:

I think this is fixable with code. But first I need to verify what is happening because my game (and many others) are not having this issue. I am suspecting a faulty Outhole switch, Trough switch, or a faulty coil eject process.... and that along with LW1 saucer Ball Save code that isn't checking for this issue is causing this problem in a few machines.
When the ball drains after ejecting from the LW1 saucer, can you lean in with a flashlight and watch the Outhole and the behavior of the ball in there? Is the ball bouncing around in there and having a difficult time with the eject into the trough? How many times is that Outhole coil firing?
Then can you both remove the apron (two screws under the cards) and check your Outhole switch and Trough switches in switch test mode? I want to make sure they are all behaving correctly and solidly and not over sensitive. Outhole is switch 10. Trough #1 Left is switch 11. Trough #2 Center is switch 12. Trough #3 Right is switch 13. Also try testing switch 10 and 11 (with your finger and with a ball) while switch 12 and 13 are both held down.
Basically, we need to figure out why it's happening on your machines and not others. If we can nail this down then we have a win-win situation. Win #1 is we can maybe fix your game to not do this with existing code... Win #2 is I can update the code to compensate for this situation.
Thanks for bringing this to attention. We will figure this out.

So after about an hour and a half of extensive testing and Diagnostics, I can tell you that the problem is for sure a timing issue with the switches or a bouncing issue with the switches. It would take way too much typing to explain everything in full detail, but the bottom line is if I held the balls in place (with apron removed) passively while they were kicked out into the plunger Lane the problem went away. I tried adjusting every single switch in the out hole lane to make them more and less sensitive and nothing seemed to work unless I held the balls passively in place while they were kicked, which leads me to believe that it's a timing issue with trying to read a switch too soon before the balls settled into place, or reading a switch being instantly triggered twice due to bouncing. What may correct this is, once the Outhole switch is triggered that a ball has been drained, maybe put a quarter second delay on every read of the switches in the trough so the balls have time to settle after they've been kicked around. I can almost guarantee you this would correct the problem. I also noticed that the 10-second bulletproof vest ball save algorithm is different then the 3 seconds ball save algorithm and therefore is not affected by this potential problem.

#1021 47 days ago
Quoted from MoSeS_1592:

So after about an hour and a half of extensive testing and Diagnostics, I can tell you that the problem is for sure a timing issue with the switches or a bouncing issue with the switches.

Thanks for the analysis. Very helpful!

I think you mentioned this in previous post, but I want to make sure it still holds true. The issue ONLY happens on your machine with the 3-Second-LW1-Eject Ball Save and NOT the 10-Second-Start-Of-Ball Ball Save... correct?

#1022 47 days ago
Quoted from ChadH:

Thanks for the analysis. Very helpful!
I think you mentioned this in previous post, but I want to make sure it still holds true. The issue ONLY happens on your machine with the 3-Second-LW1-Eject Ball Save and NOT the 10-Second-Start-Of-Ball Ball Save... correct?

I'll see if I can replicate this on mine to verify when I'm off work shortly.

#1023 47 days ago
Quoted from ChadH:

Thanks for the analysis. Very helpful!
I think you mentioned this in previous post, but I want to make sure it still holds true. The issue ONLY happens on your machine with the 3-Second-LW1-Eject Ball Save and NOT the 10-Second-Start-Of-Ball Ball Save... correct?

This is correct. During the 10-Second-Start-Of-Ball Ball Save it always works flawlessly, even if i put the ball in LW1 and drain it immediately after (as long as it is under 10 seconds of the start of the ball). I can tell the software is using the 10-second ballsaver code in this instance. After 10-Second-Start-Of-Ball Ball Save ends though, the lw1 ball saver always ejects 2 balls.

And to clarify I did check all the switches in the diagnostic mode and they all were working correctly. I did notice that while in diag mode, when the ejected ball (from outhole coil) rolled down the trough and finally hit the RIGHT Switch 3 (#13) it would occasionally register a double trigger because the ball wobbles a bit before coming to a final rest. I adjusted the rollover wire so it wasn't as sensitive to prevent this but unfortunately it did not correct the problem.

It was very difficult to simulate the the ball pattern with my fingers on the switches (and not get a finger shattered by the coil haha) but there is a possibility it could be that the software is not giving the shooter lane coil enough time to eject the ball into the shooter lane (detected by shooter lane switch) before deciding the ball isn't present in the shooter lane, and is therefore shooting a second ball out into the lane. When the ball is ejected into the shooter lane there is a very slight delay before it activates the shooter lane switch. I'm not 100% sure about this though. As far as I could tell it didn't have anything to do with the left (#11) or middle (#12) trough switch. In fact, with the apron off I went as far as to pull all three balls off the playfield during game play so the trough was empty, I manually put a ball in lw1 kickout, then upon ejection used my finger to push the outhole switch and then immediately stuck a ball in the right trough (#13) position. Even doing this, it would kick the ball out into the shooter lane and then fire the eject coil a second time to attempt to shoot a second ball into the shooter lane even though the middle and left trough positions were empty (and corresponding switches open). If I *very lightly* pressed on the top of the balls in the ball trough when there were two balls in the trough, I was able to get it to work correctly a few times where the lw1 kickout ball save only ejected one ball the correct way. This is what leads me to believe its a bouncing issue with the switches being instantly triggered more than once or perhaps a timing issue where the software isn't giving the ball enough time to settle on the next switch in sequence before deciding it's not there.

Hope this helps narrow down the problem. Let me know if you want me to try anything else.

#1024 47 days ago

.... also I checked the wire gate under the apron and for good measure adjusted it forward a bit to minimize any potential backwards roll of any balls in the trough.

#1025 47 days ago
Quoted from MoSeS_1592:

This is correct. During the 10-Second-Start-Of-Ball Ball Save it always works flawlessly, even if i put the ball in LW1 and drain it immediately after (as long as it is under 10 seconds of the start of the ball). I can tell the software is using the 10-second ballsaver code in this instance. After 10-Second-Start-Of-Ball Ball Save ends though, the lw1 ball saver always ejects 2 balls.

I am unable to duplicate this issue.

L1 lit or unlit, tossed ball into saucer AFTER 10 second time out, ball ejected and allowed to drain.

Single ball kicked back into shooter lane, "nobody move" call out and then ball is self launched.

Tried on ball one though five, made no difference.

#1026 47 days ago
Quoted from MoSeS_1592:

Hope this helps narrow down the problem. Let me know if you want me to try anything else.

Helps a lot. Thank you. I think I can fix this soon.

Quoted from gdonovan:

I am unable to duplicate this issue.

Same with my machine (and apparently the other beta testers). Thanks for checking again.

#1027 46 days ago

Hi guys,

I’m Michael, one of the beta testers.

I can reproduce this issue when i hold down the switch #11 (trough #1 left) during ball save.
And then the game behaves exactly like yours.
But this will also work for the regular 10sec. Ball saver.
Another way is when the outhole double fires, and this only works for the 3sec. Ball saver.

Even if the shooter lane switch isn’t seen by the game during ball save it will work perfectly.

So my guess is that your left trough switch is the problem.
Try to make sure that it opens as soon as the ball rolls away from that switch.

Or your outhole switch is hypersensitive.
In this case try to make sure the switch isn’t pressed until the ball comes to a good stop on the switch.

Btw.: when one of your two balls drain, the game switches to EOB-bonus theme. This normal and was like that in the old version too.

#1028 46 days ago
Quoted from Spider-Man:

So my guess is that your left trough switch is the problem.
Try to make sure that it opens as soon as the ball rolls away from that switch.

I agree. I think the fault most likely lies with this switch (Switch #11 - Trough #1 Left). If it doesn't release as quickly as possible, then the code thinks there are still three balls in through even though one was ejected into the Shooter Lane. Therefore, it ejects a 2nd ball. And by that time, that switch has released and registered as open.

I can compensate with adding a slight pause to the Trough Eject Routine. In the meantime, can you focus on this switch and make sure it is behaving 100% correctly?

LW3-trough (resized).JPG

#1029 46 days ago
Quoted from Spider-Man:

Hi guys,
I’m Michael, one of the beta testers.
I can reproduce this issue when i hold down the switch #11 (trough #1 left) during ball save.
And then the game behaves exactly like yours.
But this will also work for the regular 10sec. Ball saver.
Another way is when the outhole double fires, and this only works for the 3sec. Ball saver.
Even if the shooter lane switch isn’t seen by the game during ball save it will work perfectly.
So my guess is that your left trough switch is the problem.
Try to make sure that it opens as soon as the ball rolls away from that switch.
Or your outhole switch is hypersensitive.
In this case try to make sure the switch isn’t pressed until the ball comes to a good stop on the switch.
Btw.: when one of your two balls drain, the game switches to EOB-bonus theme. This normal and was like that in the old version too.

I'll double check the sensitivity on the outhole switch and #11 on my machine and see what happens and report back. Keep in mind I would still get double eject even when the trough was empty and I manually stuck a ball in the right trough and left #11 remained open the entire time. On my machine I'm thinking it's the outhole switch.

#1030 45 days ago

The machine seems to count the balls that are in the trough. Even when the #11 switch is held down during ball save and the #12 switch is freed after ejecting one ball, it will still only eject one ball.
At least my machine is behaving like that.

#1031 45 days ago
Quoted from ChadH:

Helps a lot. Thank you. I think I can fix this soon.

Same with my machine (and apparently the other beta testers). Thanks for checking again.

Same with my machine, Im still running the beta code not the final release

#1032 42 days ago
Quoted from ChadH:

I can compensate with adding a slight pause to the Trough Eject Routine.

I sent updated code to onlydz. He burned the new CPU ROM and confirmed that his Ball Save is now working correctly. I will get an updated ROM to MoSeS_1592 and we will see if the fix also works on his machine. Once that is verified, I will release an update publicly.

#1033 41 days ago

Finally got the topper done. Ended up using a bridge rectifier and 12v relay.

20200908_144019 (resized).jpg20200908_144020 (resized).jpg20200803_155544 (resized).jpg
#1034 39 days ago
Quoted from ChadH:

I sent updated code to onlydz. He burned the new CPU ROM and confirmed that his Ball Save is now working correctly. I will get an updated ROM to MoSeS_1592 and we will see if the fix also works on his machine. Once that is verified, I will release an update publicly.

I installed and tested the updated rom and it works perfectly. Both the start of ball and LW1 ball saver are flawless. Thanks!!!

#1035 38 days ago
Quoted from CryptKeeperAUS:

Finally got the topper done. Ended up using a bridge rectifier and 12v relay.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Looks awesome! Where'd you get the mirror blades?

#1036 38 days ago

I have released Lethal Weapon 3 v.3.01 CPU ROM on my website. You only need this if your game ever ejects two balls onto the playfield during the newly added Left Saucer (LW1) Ball Save. You only need to update the CPU ROM. The Display ROMs remain the same and are still v.3.00 from the August 2020 release.

https://www.pinballcode.com/

#1037 35 days ago
Quoted from MoSeS_1592:

Looks awesome! Where'd you get the mirror blades?

Thanks. Mirror blades were sourced locally. Generic data east blades will fit.

#1038 32 days ago

Hi!

Installed 3.01 ROM's today, this is a great improvement for the game, thanks Chad & Michael. Noticed one thing, when you get the "grab the gun and fire" scene and you shoot perfect you get a 6 million score. It shows that immediately at the end of the scene in the small square in the right upper corner. Immediately after that you also get the "big banner" that used to say 6 million, but with the 3.01 code it says 3 million score. It does however score the 6 million points. Can anyone else confirm this?

#1039 32 days ago
Quoted from BuckNaked:

Hi!
Installed 3.01 ROM's today, this is a great improvement for the game, thanks Chad & Michael. Noticed one thing, when you get the "grab the gun and fire" scene and you shoot perfect you get a 6 million score. It shows that immediately at the end of the scene in the small square in the right upper corner. Immediately after that you also get the "big banner" that used to say 6 million, but with the 3.01 code it says 3 million score. It does however score the 6 million points. Can anyone else confirm this?

This is normal as the first Uzi award is "3 MIL" as you can see on the playfield. You are getting both the 6M for a perfect kill... plus the first Uzi award of 3M.

#1040 32 days ago

Thanks for clarifying this Chad!

#1041 26 days ago

COLOR ROM UPDATE FOR LETHAL WEAPON 3!

Dave Timmer has provided an update for LW3 games to support the unofficial v3.01 patch available from pinballcode.com. Thanks to Dave for making the changes and to Chad Hendrickson for his help in testing the new color ROM!

The color ROM is now available for download from the firmware SUPPORT page of our site.

LW3_BlueWire (resized).PNG
#1042 26 days ago
Quoted from Dmod:

COLOR ROM UPDATE FOR LETHAL WEAPON 3!

Dave Timmer has provided an update for LW3 games to support the unofficial v3.01 patch available from pinballcode.com. Thanks to Dave for making the changes and to Chad Hendrickson for his help in testing the new color ROM!

Happy to see this is released.

It's worth noting that even those who don't have the v.3.01 ROM patch will still want to update their ColorDMD because during testing we found several coloring fixes that apply for those running the original ROMs also.

#1043 26 days ago
Quoted from ChadH:

we found several coloring fixes

Are their many changes made in this rom? Either way, I'll be updating, just curious about how much had to be updated.

#1044 26 days ago
Quoted from shaub:

Are their many changes made in this rom? Either way, I'll be updating, just curious about how much had to be updated.

Not sure if you are asking about the ColorDMD update or the game ROM update. If you are asking about ColorDMD, there were probably 10 things that were updated, of which 3 or 4 were specific to the new code patch and the rest were for other things regardless of CPU code.

If you are asking about game ROMs, then it's all detailed here:
https://www.pinballcode.com/lw300

#1045 25 days ago
Quoted from ChadH:

Not sure if you are asking about the ColorDMD update or the game ROM update.

I was talking about the color rom, thanks Chad.

#1046 23 days ago

Ok guys who is offeribg new roms burned with the new code? Also quick question I obviously have the original code in the game but my DMD animations are often delayed and running behind does anyone else experience this? If so would the new roms help correct this issue?

#1047 23 days ago
Quoted from Demonstyl:

Also quick question I obviously have the original code in the game but my DMD animations are often delayed and running behind does anyone else experience this? If so would the new roms help correct this issue?

If your DMD animations are often delayed when the spinners are spinning, then yes...this code update will help correct that.

#1048 23 days ago
Quoted from ChadH:

If your DMD animations are often delayed when the spinners are spinning, then yes...this code update will help correct that.

Awesome now i just need a set of roms burned.. Thanks

#1049 23 days ago
Quoted from Demonstyl:

Ok guys who is offeribg new roms burned with the new code? Also quick question I obviously have the original code in the game but my DMD animations are often delayed and running behind does anyone else experience this? If so would the new roms help correct this issue?

Matt’s Basment Arcade burns ROMs. He is meloyelo51

#1050 23 days ago

Question for chad. How do we know if we need the 3.01 rom? Is it only possible to know by trying the v3.00 set first?

Would it be possible to get a wizard mode? Complete all video modes and start multiball after the helicopter scene with Super Lethal Weapon mode enabled and super spinners, and super pops all tied to double jackpot countdown timer?

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