(Topic ID: 155101)

Data East Time Machine Flipper Voltage Too High

By FiatsRUs

8 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 9 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by FiatsRUs
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

Linked Games

#1 8 years ago

First post. I have recently acquired a DE Time Machine and, with the proper coils, the flippers are way too strong due to high voltage at the coils (72 vdc). The wall voltage checks at 118 vac and the voltage from the transformer to BR1 on the PPB is 52 vac, but it jumps to 72 vdc at the + leg of BR1. The capacitor at C1 is within spec as is the resistor at R20. Thoughts? BTW, I have two Williams High Speeds, one of which has the same issue (very high flipper voltage) and the other is fine. Help!

#3 8 years ago

The 70VDC is normal.
The 50V is rectified, and the tops of the sine flattened by a small cap.
But when the coils actually draw current the voltage is 50V (or so).
(52VAC * 1,41 (sqrt(2), the top of a sine) equals 72VDC (or so).

All pins that use this system (also WMS, etc) have this. When not energized the 50V is measured to be 70V.

But then: I am wondering about the High Speed you mentioned with the lower voltage.... What do you measure there? And how strong are the flippers? Perhaps the cap is missing or broken on that one?

#4 8 years ago

Thanks for the info. That certainly agrees with some other generic research that I did involving rectification, but why would my flippers be so strong (also any other coils at 50vdc such as up-coil to the playfield)? If I play the game as-is, the ramps will be crushed in short order (the coils are Black Beast 22-750/30-2600 per the manual spec). Here is a little more comparative info on all three machines:

DE Time Machine (too powerful): Coil: 72vdc AC to bridge rectifier: 54vac & 54vac DC out from bridge: 72vdc Resistor @ R20: barely warm to touch (not noticeably warm)

Williams HS 1 (plays normally): Coil: 69vdc AC to bridge: 56vac & 52vac DC out from bridge: 69vdc Flipper Board Resistor: warm to touch

Williams HS 2 (too powerful): Coil: 74vdc AC to bridge: 56vac & 54vac DC out from bridge: 74vdc Flipper Board Resistor: noticeably warm; almost, but not quite, hot

What is the purpose of the resistor at R20 on the DE machine? I assume to add a load after rectification (keep in mind I don't know much about this stuff). Is it possible that it is bad (the resistance checks out on my DMM).

#5 8 years ago

Just as background info, DE flippers are much stronger than Williams in general.
Check the DE Time Machine club thread ( https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/back-in-time-time-machine-club ) and several other threads for discussion of how strong is too strong and what others have done.

#6 8 years ago

I replaced my stock DE flipper coils with Williams FL-11630 coils. Much better. Not too strong like the DE coils, and it won't beat PF posts and plastics to hell.

I highly recommend swapping the coils out, especially if your ramps are still in good condition.

#7 8 years ago

Darn. I just purchased the coils, but new ones will be way cheaper than breaking the ramps. It had the Williams FL-11630 coils in it when I got it, but neither flipper was working for various reasons and I made the assumption that they were put in because that's what they had available when it last needed coils. The machine is in super condition but was played without maintenance to the point that the flippers quit and it had some other minor issues. The PF and ramps are excellent, the backglass is perfect and the cabinet is very good (a few nicks on the back box). If it was ever on route, it spent very little time there before it went to an individual's rec room who donated it to a church for their youth rec room. That's where I got it.

Thanks for the info. I'll get over to the DE Time Machine club thread for additional help.

#8 8 years ago

Black Beast for the earlier DE games are extremely strong. Way too strong imho.

Don't know which is R20, but some rectifiers have a loading resistor. The voltage can be higher when a transformer is unloaded. These resistors can be found on older Bally's. Don't know about your machine though.

4 months later
#9 7 years ago
Quoted from Richard_BoK:

Black Beast for the earlier DE games are extremely strong. Way too strong imho.
Don't know which is R20, but some rectifiers have a loading resistor. The voltage can be higher when a transformer is unloaded. These resistors can be found on older Bally's. Don't know about your machine though.

I installed the Williams FL-11630 coils. They work great. Plenty of power but not too strong to break anything.

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 18.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 18.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 27.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 44.99
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Pinball Shark
 
From: $ 19.99
Hey modders!
Your shop name here

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/data-east-time-machine-flipper-voltage-too-high and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.