Still would just like to look over the MPU.
(Topic ID: 247584)
Linked Games
Star Wars
Data East, 1992
Topic Gallery
Lawrence, KS
Quoted from jgadzia:this board does the exact same as my simpsons board
Ok Got it. So your Simpsons board used to work as well?
Quoted from PinballManiac40:Ok Got it. So your Simpsons board used to work as well?
no there is nothing wrong with my simpsons, only my data east star wars dmd is not working. i just used the cables from the simpsons cause i knew they worked and my dmd still doesnt work. when i boot the boards the lights do the same thing so i figured my mpu on star wars was ok. that may not be the case.
Quoted from dc2010:Try swapping the power supplies between games, I believe your issues is with the 5v line on the ps, swap and report findings for both games
Scratch that, the Simpsons is a alpha numeric, ps is different, damn brain fart
Quoted from dc2010:Anyway I suspect it is the bridge rectifier
i contacted rottendog. (it is their power supply) they suggested changing the voltage regulator. so i am going to change that and the associated capacitors and see how it goes.....
3 weeks later
ok replaced the voltage regulator and the the capacitors and i get an even 5 volts out of the power supply board and still not working. Go back and check the other test points and i am now getting nothing out of the TRANSFORMER at 90 vac, or 100 Vac, i am getting 20 volts out of the grey-green wire which says is supposed to be 9 volt ac and nothing out of the gry-wht wire which is supposed to be 9vac as well. All of the other voltages appear to be correct. So clearly something has gone amiss at the transformer. This game was originally a french game and looks like it got converted to 110. Is this something i can fix or do i need to buy a new transformer. guessing it is not the fuse because all the voltages would be shot in that situation. Could it be as simple as the varistor? Uggh !! this machine is killing me 
Quoted from jgadzia:ok replaced the voltage regulator and the the capacitors and i get an even 5 volts out of the power supply board and still not working. Go back and check the other test points and i am now getting nothing out of the TRANSFORMER at 90 vac, or 100 Vac, i am getting 20 volts out of the grey-green wire which says is supposed to be 9 volt ac and nothing out of the gry-wht wire which is supposed to be 9vac as well. All of the other voltages appear to be correct. So clearly something has gone amiss at the transformer. This game was originally a french game and looks like it got converted to 110. Is this something i can fix or do i need to buy a new transformer. guessing it is not the fuse because all the voltages would be shot in that situation. Could it be as simple as the varistor? Uggh !! this machine is killing me
If it were the varister out wouldn't power on at all, no lights nothing
You are going to have to post a lot of pictures, especially the wiring at the transformer and the boards with the game turned on.
Quoted from jgadzia:i am now getting nothing out of the TRANSFORMER at 90 vac, or 100 Vac
You will not need the -112v, -100v, nor the 62v as the ColorDMD will not use those voltages. In any case, how are you measuring the voltage? The ground braid cannot be used in that case as a ground to measure AC voltages.
Quoted from PinballManiac40:You will not need the -112v, -100v, nor the 62v as the ColorDMD will not use those voltages. In any case, how are you measuring the voltage? The ground braid cannot be used in that case as a ground to measure AC voltages.
i measured at the two wires on the transformer (ie black-red with one probe and gray wire with other probe for the 100 volt ac line) I never used the case ground, but the actual two wires on page 46 of the transformer diagram
https://www.ipdb.org/files/2358/Data_East_1992_Star_Wars_Manual.pdf
Quoted from PinballManiac40:You will not need the -112v, -100v, nor the 62v as the ColorDMD will not use those voltages. In any case, how are you measuring the voltage? The ground braid cannot be used in that case as a ground to measure AC voltages.
also i do need the correct 9v ac to run the logic board
Quoted from jgadzia:also i do need the correct 9v ac to run the logic board
Which eventually turns into 12Vdc, which 5Vdc taps off. Easier just to measure the dc output voltages on the power supply. If you have those, your 9Vac is good.
Quoted from jgadzia:i measured at the two wires on the transformer (ie black-red with one probe and gray wire with other probe for the 100 volt ac line) I never used the case ground, but the actual two wires on page 46 of the transformer diagram
https://www.ipdb.org/files/2358/Data_East_1992_Star_Wars_Manual.pdf
Black-red wire is correct, but you have to use the white wire. The gray wire is separated from the 100Vac. Again, the ColorDMD will not use that voltage.
2019-08-16 12_12_29-https___www.ipdb.org_files_2358_Data_East_1992_Star_Wars_Manual.pdf - Internet E (resized).png
ok so i actually was measuring the correct wires. i think i just had my multimeter set on the wrong setting and it wasnt reading the voltage (yes i am a dummy ). so i am getting all voltages on the board, however. i still dont think i am getting the correct voltages on the board.
with everything plugged in:
+5v: +4.95 volts
+12v: +11.43
-12v: -14volts
with nothing plugged in
+5v: +5.0v
+12v:13v
-12v:-14 v
so when everything is plugged in i am not getting the full 5 volts to the dmd. I am wondering since the +12 volts seems to be about a volt lower than the -12 volts that one of the diodes that is acting as the bridge rectifier may be going bad and causing too much resistence which is lowering the +12 volts which feed the +5 volt voltage regulator. I already replaced the voltage regulator and i checked the resistors and they are reading what they are supposed to read. i also replaced the capacitors that feed that that line. The only other thing would be the inductor,it measured a resistance of 10 ohms so i think based on what i read that it is ok.
this is the 5v regulator that i installed. if you look on page 10 you will see what appears to be the same setup they have on this board except the inductor value is 680 u.
https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/308/MC34167-D-38032.pdf
20190816_164203 (resized).jpgQuoted from jgadzia:with everything plugged in:
+5v: +4.95 volts
+12v: +11.43
-12v: -14volts
The voltages look good. I had machines operate fine with 4.90v for the 5v.
Time to move on to other possibilities.
Is your attract mode lighting working? If not, open the coin door for a couple of seconds and then close it. It might be stuck in the "open coin door" message because of batteries being removed.
Please post a picture of where the other end of the ColorDMD power cable is plugged into. Also, are there any LEDs lit on the ColorDMD board, when you turn on the game?
1 week later
ok, sorry i have been gone so long. i went and just tried re-hooking everything up and somehow started blowing my 8 amp sloblow fuse for the lamps. Not sure where it was grounding out, but it isnt doing it anymore. So i wanted to fix that before i got back to this. I hooked everything up and made sure the coin door was closed, and still doesnt work. I went to colordmd's site and they basically say if you can get into the menu(which i can) then the problem is with the video signal from the dmd board. I went back and checked the +5 volt connector at the DMD board and I am only getting 4.92 volts at the connector. At the checkpoint on the board i am getting 4.95, so between the power supply board and the connector i am losing .03 volts. I am about ready to buy a new power supply board as i dont know what else to fix on the board. The only thing left that i can replace is the inductor. Is that worth replacing? i have pictures of all connections here:
pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).pngQuoted from PinballManiac40:The voltages look good. I had machines operate fine with 4.90v for the 5v.
So...not the power supply.
Please post a picture of where the other end of the ColorDMD power cable is plugged into (should be at the bottom left side of the power supply). Also, are there any LEDs lit on the ColorDMD board, when you turn on the game?
Quoted from jgadzia:if you can get into the menu(which i can)
I think based on what you have typed here, you should reflash your display. Make sure you download it from this Chroma list I have linked since all LED ColorDMD use the Chroma board.
You have SIGMA 3.3 installed on the display, which is a single color ROM. You need erase anything on your flash drive named chroma.rom as well as anything on your PC where you downloaded it to originally. If you download to either a second time, it calls the new file chroma(1).rom. It has to be only chroma.rom and should be SW 3.2 on the screen after loading.
That is great. Just as the note you found about the video being an issue is the next thing to dig into.
Next, need to be sure you have 5VDC (4.8 to 5.2v) getting to the DMD controller board. Use you voltmeter and put the red and black leads on both ends of any of these yellow capacitors. You only need to measure across one of them. Without power on this board, you definitely will not have any video getting to the ColorDMD.
If you don't have 5V, then the J2 connector male pins need to be resoldered on the underside of the board.
2019-08-31 08_32_44-data east star wars dead dmd Need Advice Please _ Tech_ Early solid state _ Pins (resized).png
i checked and i am gettin 4.85 volts across all the capacitors
see post #70 and #75 above.
" I went back and checked the +5 volt connector at the DMD board and I am only getting 4.92 volts at the connector. At the checkpoint on the power supply board i am getting 4.95, so between the power supply board and the connector i am losing .03 volts. I am about ready to buy a new power supply board as i dont know what else to fix on the board. The only thing left that i can replace is the inductor. Is that worth replacing? i have pictures of all connections"
I do not see this as a power supply issue since I had mentioned that a few times in the thread.
I know I have issues with my wide ribbon cable on my LAH. I can wiggle the ribbon at the one end of the DMD controller board and I see it flake out, but I have to cycle power again for it to display correctly. Try and turn your ribbon cable the other way around at the DMD controller and at the MPU board. Only this ribbon cable.
Quoted from PinballManiac40:I do not see this as a power supply issue since I had mentioned that a few times in the thread.
I know I have issues with my wide ribbon cable on my LAH. I can wiggle the ribbon at the one end of the DMD controller board and I see it flake out, but I have to cycle power again for it to display correctly. Try and turn your ribbon cable the other way around at the DMD controller and at the MPU board. Only this ribbon cable.
tried a different cable and flipping that one. nothing. I am thinking that even if that cable is bad or the mpu is bad, the rom version is supposed to display when you power on the machine as it gets a display from the rom on the dmd board? if that is the case then i can at least narrow down that it is a power supply problem or a bad dmd board, but again this is a brand new dmd board, a brand new rom and i am having the same issue that i had with the old dmd board and the old rom. The only consistency here is the power supply board. I wouldnt mind buying a new one if i knew for sure that was the issue, but dang, i already just bought a new dmd board. I guess its possible i got another defective dmd board but that seems less likely to me... i wish there was a way for me to check the dmd board.
Not a power supply issue. You have good, in spec, voltages on the DMD controller board and at the ColorDMD.
I can see MPU as the highly potential issue at this point. You can send it to ChrisHibler to test and repair.
Simpsons MPU can be moved over to confirm it, but as I had posted, you have to change the one jumper to match up with the game ROMs used.
I definitely would move the ground braid wire off the DMD Controller board since there is not an exposed ground. Move it to under the post sleeve so that it is making contact directly to the exposed ground area of the ColorDMD. That way the ColorDMD has a common ground to the backbox ground.
2019-09-01 15_31_21-data east star wars dead dmd Need Advice Please _ Tech_ Early solid state _ Pins (resized).png
Quoted from PinballManiac40:Not a power supply issue. You have good, in spec, voltages on the DMD controller board and at the ColorDMD.
I can see MPU as the highly potential issue at this point. You can send it to chrishibler to test and repair.
With the DE games, he should still get the ROM version even if the MPU is problematic. I'd try changing that IDC 5v connector to a molex with trifuricon wipers in it. Might help with the voltage drop.
DE games can be very finicky when it comes to the 5v supply line.
Quoted from jgadzia:
can someone please confirm that if you unplug the ribbon cable from the dmd, you still get at least some type of display on the dmd when you power on. i am getting absolutely nothing on the dmd when i turn it on, and i want to rule out that it is a problem with the mpu or the cable.
You get nothing without the ribbon connected, correct. You’ll see it power on and illuminated but nothing to display
ok so according to the star wars forum if the mpu cable is not connected you get nothing on the display. I have a simpsons mpu board that i have removed. It has chips at B4, C4, and D4. The star wars only has roms at C4 and D4. Once i make the switch are there any other chips or jumpers i need to change or can i just put those 2 in and hook it up?
Quoted from jgadzia:ok so according to the star wars forum if the mpu cable is not connected you get nothing on the display.
Yes. No ribbon cable=no display. Data has to come from the MPU to tell the DMD controller to display something.
Quoted from jgadzia:ok so according to the star wars forum if the mpu cable is not connected you get nothing on the display. I have a simpsons mpu board that i have removed. It has chips at B4, C4, and D4. The star wars only has roms at C4 and D4. Once i make the switch are there any other chips or jumpers i need to change or can i just put those 2 in and hook it up?
D4 is not a game ROM, it is a RAM. It stays in the board no matter what game it is in.
Must remove game ROMs at B4 and C4 out of the Simpsons board and install the C4 game ROM from Star Wars into the Simpson board. Then you also have to unsolder Jumper J4 and install it into J3 so it can be used in Star Wars.
2019-09-02 19_30_09-File_DE CPU ROM Jumpers.JPG - PinWiki - Internet Explorer (resized).png
Please move the ground strap mentioned on post #91 first. Someone had posted that fixed their issue on another thread I recall reading 5 months ago.
I don't guarantee that, but that is where it should be connected anyway.
Eureka! That was it, something on the mpu was bad. With the simpsons board the game works fine. So now I need to tackle fixing the MPU.
After looking at the diagram, my thought is to take a logic probe to the 6821 chips at 7B and 9B on the working board and record the measurements then take it to the non-working board and compare. I see that there are resistors and capacitors after the chips to the connector, are these more likely to go bad then the 6821 IC's?
ok now i have another problem my coils are not working and my flashers are working. The special coils are working appropriately but the regular coils and flashlamps do not function in the test menu. I checked Q29 and it is functioning properly and i went ahead and resoldered the K1 relay in case there was a cold solder joint, but that did not fix the problem. I am guessing the relay just went bad, is there a way to test it? Also i found this:
On the games Time Machine to Simpsons (seven games), DataEast designed the power distribution through the L/R relay in "reverse". That is, with the relay unenergized, the "L" side powered the flashlamps instead of the coils. This was a design error! Often the L/R relay would get cold solder joints, and simply not work. This meant if a player started a game, only the flashlamps would light (and the game could not be played). If the coils were on the "L" side of the relay, at least the game could be played (or partially played, but without the flashlamps).
DataEast realized the error they made, and corrected the design so the "L" side connected to coils (as done previously), and not flashlamps.
so can i even use this board with my star wars?
ok so i have compared the 6821 chip on the working star wars board with the non-working board (after i swapped the roms) it appears that i am getting a pulsing signal on pins 26-33 on the non working board and am getting no reading on the working board. Also pin 34-38 are not reading the same as the working board. I can see on the schematics that the D0-D7 lines come off the 5B chip, CMOS, and the 5E chip. I clearly dont understand this completely, but is that where i should be checking next?
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