Data East speaker noise - ideas for a cure


By roc-noc

5 years ago


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There are 347 posts in topic. You are on page 7 of 7.
#301 3 months ago
Quoted from Antennaejim:

The wiring will vary according to the diagram print for the power supply. Same thing with your sound board. The soundboard will Have the voltages printed on the board next to the pin layout as posted earlier in this thread. Just match them up. Here's mine it may look different than yours however.

I received this board. Just hooked it up to mains today, and annoyingly getting nothing on any output pin Double checked my connection - def mains entering board, just nothing coming out.

Guess I got a bad one.

#302 3 months ago
Quoted from Ive:

I received this board. Just hooked it up to mains today, and annoyingly getting nothing on any output pin Double checked my connection - def mains entering board, just nothing coming out.
Guess I got a bad one.

Are you testing to a grounded source?

#303 3 months ago

Have discovered the weirdest qwerk with my JP after installing the new power supply. Now when the machine is powered off my powered Bose sub stays on and hums. Never did it before the new power supply and I confirmed the power is off to the new supply. I swapped it with a different brand of sub I had on another machine and that solved it. Was really strange though. Not sure why the Bose sub started acting up. Anyone else had that sub do that on a machine, its the standard one you always see posted for sale on here.

#304 3 months ago
Quoted from Antennaejim:

Are you testing to a grounded source?

Yes

#305 3 months ago

You have to check the aux supply using it's own ground pin on it's output pins. The point of the supply being isolated in the first place. If you are using an Artesyn regulated supply as I recommended , you can check the +5,. +12, and -12vdc before even plugging in to the games sound board. It's what you should do anyway to make certain your wiring is correct

#306 3 months ago
Quoted from wayout440:

You have to check the aux supply using it's own ground pin on it's output pins. The point of the supply being isolated in the first place. If you are using an Artesyn regulated supply as
I recomended , you can check the +5,. +12, and -12vdc before even plugging in to the games sound board. It's what you should do anyway to make certain your wiring is correct

Ah doh ! Of course

Just checked it and it is outputting ok. Checking it before attaching to sound board.

Thanks for your help

#307 3 months ago

OK - double checked everything, connected up my new power supply .............and makes no difference at all

Oh well , I have lived with it all these years.

The hum/noise on mine is especially noticeable in attract mode, and kind of rises and falls as the lamps do their attract sequence. Seems to mostly come from the cabinet speaker.

#308 3 months ago
Quoted from Ive:

OK - double checked everything, connected up my new power supply .............and makes no difference at all
Oh well , I have lived with it all these years.
The hum/noise on mine is especially noticeable in attract mode, and kind of rises and falls as the lamps do their attract sequence. Seems to mostly come from the cabinet speaker.

Your noise problems had the exact same symptoms as mine. The aux supply solved mine and others, so yours must be a different problem.

#309 3 months ago
Quoted from Ive:

OK - double checked everything, connected up my new power supply .............and makes no difference at all
Oh well , I have lived with it all these years.
The hum/noise on mine is especially noticeable in attract mode, and kind of rises and falls as the lamps do their attract sequence. Seems to mostly come from the cabinet speaker.

Can you post a picture of your installation so we can take a look and maybe help further?

#310 3 months ago
Quoted from Antennaejim:

Can you post a picture of your installation so we can take a look and maybe help further?

Yep. Thanks. When I get a chance this week

#311 3 months ago

Finally got to install the dedicated powder supply. No go. Still have the same humming/buzzing sound. Funny as is, and I should have tried this before; when I disconnect the sound board, the noise is still there.
When I disconnect the display it is gone though. Any thoughts?

More info. Noise is coming mostly from the sub, which seems to be following the lights of the playfield.

Just realized, exact same as Ive's issue.

#312 3 months ago
Quoted from StrangeSubset1:

Finally got to install the dedicated powder supply. No go. Still have the same humming/buzzing sound. Funny as is, and I should have tried this before; when I disconnect the sound board, the noise is still there.
When I disconnect the display it is gone though. Any thoughts?
More info. Noise is coming mostly from the sub, which seems to be following the lights of the playfield.
Just realized, exact same as Ive's issue.

That's an amplified sub, correct? If then, your audio system is different. If you disconnect the sound board from standard DE version 3 game, no sound will come out of any speakers, as all three speakers are run by op amps on the sound board. It just isn't possible.

#313 3 months ago

In discussion on the Pinballinfo (UK) forum a fellow pinhead Luke Wells had these thoughts .... of particular interest was the suggestion to replace the BIG capacitor in the backbox to help with lamp matrix noise - which is what my Tommy suffers from. Any thoughts ?

.................................................................

"Can I ask what type of noise you are trying to solve? Do you mean actual hum (like 50hz mains hum) as that is cured by fixing the sound board ground and replacing / upgrading the filter capacitors on the sound board (c30, c31,c52, c59) assuming you are talking about a 520-5050-00 sound board.

c52 and c59 benefit from being high-end caps as these are for the internally generated analog dac rails on the sound board.

Now on a Data East, it is also common to get attract more noise from the DMD

Even more likely, you could be taking about the famous lamp matrix noise on a Data East machine that you will hear during attract mode, that will vary as the lamp patterns change. If your game has the large capacitor mounted in the backbox next to the bridge rectifiers, then replacing that will help with the lamp matrix noise.

Finally, make sure your volume control cable is shielded, and the shield conductor is grounded at both ends"

#314 3 months ago
Quoted from Ive:

...
Even more likely, you could be taking about the famous lamp matrix noise on a Data East machine that you will hear during attract mode, that will vary as the lamp patterns change. If your game has the large capacitor mounted in the backbox next to the bridge rectifiers, then replacing that will help with the lamp matrix noise. "

Exactly this. I just have no idea what a bridge rectifier is. Mine is a Last Action Hero.

#315 3 months ago
Quoted from StrangeSubset1:

Exactly this. I just have no idea what a bridge rectifier is. Mine is a Last Action Hero.

See the big blue cap in the bottom left corner? Look just above and to the right. See the row of fuses? The bridge rectifier is the perfectly square component just to the right of the fuses.

tommy back box (resized).jpg

#316 3 months ago
Quoted from LOTR_breath:

See the big blue cap in the bottom left corner? Look just above and to the right. See the row of fuses? The bridge rectifier is the perfectly square component just to the right of the fuses.

Ok, stupides question. What do I replace it with?

#317 3 months ago
Quoted from StrangeSubset1:

Ok, stupides question. What do I replace it with?

This is what I installed to replace mine.

http://home.kpn.nl/p.koch3/bridge_board.htm

#318 3 months ago
Quoted from metalkatt:

This is what I installed to replace mine.
http://home.kpn.nl/p.koch3/bridge_board.htm

Yep. That's what I'm gonna use. Here's hoping it helps the hum.

#319 3 months ago
Quoted from Ive:

Yep. That's what I'm gonna use. Here's hoping it helps the hum.

I the same attract mode background noise on my DE R&B, even though the attract sound was turned off. It was very noticeable, kind of like a muted kazoo playing the attract sounds, volume affected by the DMD.

Mine got a lot better when I replaced the two backbox speakers with Kenwood 4" speakers. Now it is so soft that I can't hear it unless I put my ear about 2 inches from the speaker. From the front of the game I can't hear anything.

But it sounds like the main solution is replace the blue capacitor.

Alan

#320 3 months ago
Quoted from P2K:

I the same attract mode background noise on my DE R&B, even though the attract sound was turned off. It was very noticeable, kind of like a muted kazoo playing the attract sounds, volume affected by the DMD.
Mine got a lot better when I replaced the two backbox speakers with Kenwood 4" speakers. Now it is so soft that I can't hear it unless I put my ear about 2 inches from the speaker. From the front of the game I can't hear anything.
But it sounds like the main solution is replace the blue capacitor.
Alan

Is it possible you replaced the speakers with a different ohms rating?I don't have a good explanation for why that would make any difference, and replacing the speakers didn't help for me.

My noise was migrating in through the games power supply lines, which is why an isolated power supply helped. My noise was also not related at all to the DMD, as unplugging the DMD did nothing. It was entirely digital switching noise on the lamp matrix, which also had clean filtered power with no ripple. I'd be interested to know if replacing the cap helps some folks - its possible that it would if the cap is bad to begin with. I didn't find a problem with my cap when I took measurements. It would also be interesting to know what your DC and AC measurements are on the cap before it gets replaced.

#321 3 months ago
Quoted from wayout440:

I'd be interested to know if replacing the cap helps some folks - its possible that it would if the cap is bad to begin with. I didn't find a problem with my cap when I took measurements.

Maybe our noise problems aren't the same. Most people in this thread are saying it is a hum. Then recently Ive mentioned the "famous lamp matrix noise on a Data East machine that you will hear during attract mode". That is the first time I heard someone describe my exact noise problem. My noise is actually the games attract sounds playing fuzzy and soft in the background when attract sounds are turned off.

Is yours more of a random white noise problem, not a ground hum or an attract sound noise?

Alan

#322 3 months ago

Can you get a video of the sound?

#323 3 months ago
Quoted from P2K:

Maybe our noise problems aren't the same. Most people in this thread are saying it is a hum. Then recently Ive mentioned the "famous lamp matrix noise on a Data East machine that you will hear during attract mode". That is the first time I heard someone describe my exact noise problem. My noise is actually the games attract sounds playing fuzzy and soft in the background when attract sounds are turned off.
Is yours more of a random white noise problem, not a ground hum or an attract sound noise?
Alan

Mine was not a ground hum or attract noise. Almost like a random white noise, but more of a digital noise. Distinctly raises and lowers with the changes in light patterns. When all the lights are on it was at its highest peak level.

#324 3 months ago

So, now I have installed the external power supply and fired up my Playboy 35th, everything with the ext ps works, but it has not resolved my current issues with my music that I can still only hear faintly in the background. I have the sounds loud and clear from the the two sound chips, but music is still "in the distance". The loud ringing I hear is coming out of the left speaker and gets louder as I turn up the volume under the play field, so the ext ps didn't resolve that. At this point, I am open to options from anyone out there that could help...?

Here is a link to my current woes:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/data-east-playboy-35th-issues

#325 3 months ago

Longshot guess but could the speakers be out of phase? + to + and - to - ? That can make sound not be there that should be but I can't say I've ever heard of that in pinball. Just thought I'd float it out there...

Unrelated, I installed a pin2dmd and my overall noise level dropped considerably. Might have been loose grounds but I don't think so... Just happy it's now quiet enough I may not add additional ps.

#326 3 months ago

There are separate amplifiers for sound effects and music according to the schematics. You'll probably need an oscilloscope to troubleshoot. On a long shot, you might find a loose or broken component or perhaps putting a finger on one of the amp ICs would reveal a bad amp. Maybe.

#327 3 months ago
Quoted from wayout440:

There are separate amplifiers for sound effects and music according to the schematics. You'll probably need an oscilloscope to troubleshoot. On a long shot, you might find a loose or broken component or perhaps putting a finger on one of the amp ICs would reveal a bad amp. Maybe.

I recapped the music section and changed the amp out with a new one for the music.... Still no change. I'm wondering if its in the power box where the wiring for the left and right channel along with the shielding wire come from before they head up to the sound board. I'm going to check that out tomorrow evening

....I even tried another sound board and was getting the same results.... Crazy, huh?!?

#328 3 months ago

Not needed as thread already covered it

#329 3 months ago
Quoted from metalkatt:

I recapped the music section and changed the amp out with a new one for the music.... Still no change. I'm wondering if its in the power box where the wiring for the left and right channel along with the shielding wire come from before they head up to the sound board. I'm going to check that out tomorrow evening
....I even tried another sound board and was getting the same results.... Crazy, huh?!?

I don't consider it crazy ...just a part of troubleshooting. You can now safely eliminate what you know IS working, to help narrow down what you need to look at. Definitely check that wiring out. There's also a speaker phase test in the manual. I would recommend you do that, as a wiring problem could certainly be an issue. You can also try swapping the speakers left and right. If the problem flip-flops, say the music is now louder than the sound effects, then you might have a bad speaker. This is assuming this particular game has music or effects weighted to a left or right channel in the mix, and not a balanced stereo like output.

1 week later
#330 80 days ago
Quoted from metalkatt:

This is what I installed to replace mine.
http://home.kpn.nl/p.koch3/bridge_board.htm

Just an update

Installed this board hoping that replacing big blue might make a difference to the lamp noise. It didn't

#331 79 days ago
Quoted from Ive:

Just an update
Installed this board hoping that replacing big blue might make a difference to the lamp noise. It didn't

That's a bummer.... Back to the drawing board. I'm know I'm still trying to figure my sound issue, or lack of sound, I should say. Good luck.

1 week later
#332 67 days ago

Thanks all for this thread! I just cured my #maverick of the hum coming from the speakers with the @chadh "nylon washer" trick, 100% improvement! Easily confirmed by disconnecting the speaker wires before and after. Instead of washers, I used some wire clips I had on hand.

Anecdotally, my #maverick has a 520-5050-01 when it should have come with a 520-5050-03 sound board, I'm sure it was swapped at some point based on a non-factory sticker on it. Maybe there is a grounding difference like @crash says https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/data-east-speaker-noise-ideas-for-a-cure/page/4#post-2187705
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#333 61 days ago

Omg! What took me so long!!! Just used plastic washers on DESW sound board and the noise dropped to almost nothing! I was re-reading this thread planning on the power supply addition but decided to try washers first. Glad I did, thanks to all!

#334 61 days ago

If you ever plan on putting a color dmd in your machine I would recommend the aux power supply because there is too much pull on the main power supply to support a good sound system and a good led/lcd screen. My tales from the crypt would drop power to my color dmd during multiball since it maxes out the power with everything going on. Too much load on the 12v section by design!

#335 61 days ago

Not to mention the extra load could increase ripple in the supply causing hum.

1 week later
#336 54 days ago

My Secret Service hums when it feels like it. It comes and goes. I have the power supply and 30,000 uf capacitor ordered. Is there anything else I need to address?

#337 53 days ago
Quoted from Sputnik:

My Secret Service hums when it feels like it. It comes and goes. I have the power supply and 30,000 uf capacitor ordered. Is there anything else I need to address?

Connectors. If you haven't repinned them, I'd be concerned that your intermittent problem might be caused by a flaky connector. Adding an auxiliary supply is a last resort, only used to fix subborn games where conventional repair did not alleviate the symptoms.

#338 53 days ago

I will check them out, thanks.

4 weeks later
#339 26 days ago

Just picked up a Robocop recently and am having the constant hum/buzz out of the speakers. It's not a sound that follows light matrix activity, but just a constant buzz. Read through this thread in its entirety and tried some of the things suggested. One interesting thing on my machine is when I float the sound board, instead of fixing the hum or making it better, it makes it a lot worse! In fact, floating any of the boards hurts instead of helps. Is this pointing to anything in particular being that I'm getting the opposite effect than most others? All the boards are screwed down tight with screws in all mounting holes.

#340 25 days ago
Quoted from parkway:

Just picked up a Robocop recently and am having the constant hum/buzz out of the speakers. It's not a sound that follows light matrix activity, but just a constant buzz. Read through this thread in its entirety and tried some of the things suggested. One interesting thing on my machine is when I float the sound board, instead of fixing the hum or making it better, it makes it a lot worse! In fact, floating any of the boards hurts instead of helps. Is this pointing to anything in particular being that I'm getting the opposite effect than most others? All the boards are screwed down tight with screws in all mounting holes.

Have you tried a separate power supply as suggested in this thread. When connecting this new power supply the ground does not get connected to the new power supply only the hot and the neutral which removes the 60 cycle hum with new clean power.

#341 25 days ago
Quoted from Antennaejim:

Have you tried a separate power supply as suggested in this thread. When connecting this new power supply the ground does not get connected to the new power supply only the hot and the neutral which removes the 60 cycle hum with new clean power.

Was kind of hoping to not have to, but I guess I'm going to go that direction. Did you get the XP Power brand? That's the one someone pointed out in the thread earlier from eBay.

#342 25 days ago

Nevermind. Saw your picture and can just make out the Xp Power label. Ordered and will report back when installed. Thanks.

#343 25 days ago
Quoted from parkway:

Nevermind. Saw your picture and can just make out the Xp Power label. Ordered and will report back when installed. Thanks.

Yes and I have 2 data east machines with that power brick and both are now dead quiet!

1 week later
#344 18 days ago
Quoted from Antennaejim:

Yes and I have 2 data east machines with that power brick and both are now dead quiet!

Aux supply worked. Thanks very much. Still have the hum that follows the "light show", but I'm used to that and it doesn't bother me. The important thing is it solved the annoying constant hum/buzz and that's what counts. Sounds and music sound that much better and clearer as well. Thanks again.

#345 17 days ago
Quoted from parkway:

Aux supply worked. Thanks very much. Still have the hum that follows the "light show", but I'm used to that and it doesn't bother me. The important thing is it solved the annoying constant hum/buzz and that's what counts. Sounds and music sound that much better and clearer as well. Thanks again.

Light show? Do you mean that your dmd is making noise? If so that is a separate issue. I had a noisy dmd in my last action hero and swapped it out for a different dmd and the noise was gone.

#346 17 days ago
Quoted from Antennaejim:

Light show? Do you mean that your dmd is making noise? If so that is a separate issue. I had a noisy dmd in my last action hero and swapped it out for a different dmd and the noise was gone.

I think he's talking about the atract mode controlled lamps. As the lamps all light up, the current draw causes digital noise superimposed on the quieter idling audio circuit. It seems to be a notorious problem with DE audio design.

#347 15 days ago
Quoted from wayout440:

I think he's talking about the atract mode controlled lamps. As the lamps all light up, the current draw causes digital noise superimposed on the quieter idling audio circuit. It seems to be a notorious problem with DE audio design.

Yup. That's what I was referring to. I actually kind of like the buzz that follows the attract mode. Been a part of every system 11 game I've ever owned.

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