(Topic ID: 109642)

Data East pinball club

By PinballManiac40

9 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 3,083 posts
  • 512 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 days ago by dtmail209
  • Topic is favorited by 221 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Do you have any Data East Pinball machines??”

  • Yes, I have one. 572 votes
    58%
  • I have one or more. 283 votes
    29%
  • Considering buying one or more. 84 votes
    9%
  • No, never 44 votes
    4%

(Multiple choice - 983 votes by 941 Pinsiders)

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There are 3,083 posts in this topic. You are on page 56 of 62.
#2751 1 year ago

Black Friday...perfect day to play some pinball.

#2752 1 year ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Because I seen this before,

Thanks,

So to you it appears to be a glitchy 5V circuit?

CN1 looks good.

And since you've put the fear in me........

I'm off to my local electronics store for new caps (yes, those stores still exist some places). The existing caps don't appear to have leaks, but they are almost 30 years old.

#2753 1 year ago
Quoted from DropTarget:

Thanks,
So to you it appears to be a glitchy 5V circuit?
CN1 looks good.
And since you've put the fear in me........
I'm off to my local electronics store for new caps (yes, those stores still exist some places). The existing caps don't appear to have leaks, but they are almost 30 years old.

You often do not see the leak until you remove the original cap. Had the same thing with a JP recently. In addition to changing the 4 caps mentioned previously, check the fuse holders as they can break / crack. May be check the bridge rectifier too.

Have a look thru the DE JP thread as there has been lots of discussion on there.

Good luck

Skippy2904

Edit see you already did post on the other thread!

#2754 1 year ago
Quoted from Skippy2904:

You often do not see the leak until you remove the original cap

Thanks,

I just got home with replacement caps and diodes, it appears that D1 is open. Bridge rectifiers are fine.

Fingers crossed.

#2755 1 year ago
Quoted from DropTarget:

Thanks,
I just got home with replacement caps and diodes, it appears that D1 is open. Bridge rectifiers are fine.
Fingers crossed.

I never seen D1 open. You are using the diode test?

#2756 1 year ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Because I seen this before,

Thanks everyone.

I replaced C1, 2, 3 & 4 along with D1 which tested bad while in circuit (tested fine out of circuit). Now everything seems to be working as advertised again.

I did not see any evidence of a leaked cap, maybe after 29 years, one just kicked the bucket.

Thanks again. $5.00 in parts and a trip to the electronics store, which is always a blast.

#2757 1 year ago
Quoted from DropTarget:

Thanks everyone.
I replaced C1, 2, 3 & 4 along with D1 which tested bad while in circuit (tested fine out of circuit). Now everything seems to be working as advertised again.
I did not see any evidence of a leaked cap, maybe after 29 years, one just kicked the bucket.
Thanks again. $5.00 in parts and a trip to the electronics store, which is always a blast.

Most are rated for a few 100 hours, amazing they last as long as they do.

#2758 1 year ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Most are rated for a few 100 hours, amazing they last as long as they do.

yeah, Pretty impressive

4 weeks later
#2759 1 year ago

Merry Christmas! My Time Machine displays are not working on the backglass. Everything else seems to be fine.
What is the approach for trying to track down whether it is a loose wire or the display itself? Or anyone else go through this?
Thanks in advance.

#2760 1 year ago
Quoted from pinball2020:

Merry Christmas! My Time Machine displays are not working on the backglass. Everything else seems to be fine.
What is the approach for trying to track down whether it is a loose wire or the display itself? Or anyone else go through this?
Thanks in advance.

Start with taking voltage checks of displays.

Careful as they are high and will give you a good shock.

#2761 1 year ago

Curious if anybody local to new england has a spare DE MPU 520-5003-04. Some light corrosion would be fine, but my coil area is burnt to a crisp on one game and I would like to secure one that's a little cleaner before I put my R&B out on location again.

#2762 1 year ago
Quoted from radial_head:

Curious if anybody local to new england has a spare DE MPU 520-5003-04. Some light corrosion would be fine, but my coil area is burnt to a crisp on one game and I would like to secure one that's a little cleaner before I put my R&B out on location again.

You don't need a -04. I think it came with a -03 but a -04 will work in the game. So, you should be able to use either one.

#2763 1 year ago

Right on. I guess let me rephrase:

I'd like a Data East MPU for a R&B Era DMD

#2764 1 year ago
Quoted from pinball2020:

Merry Christmas! My Time Machine displays are not working on the backglass. Everything else seems to be fine.
What is the approach for trying to track down whether it is a loose wire or the display itself? Or anyone else go through this?
Thanks in advance.

Mine did this when I got it home also. On my machine, the ribbon cables were loose. Hope it's as easy a fix for you too!

Chris

#2765 1 year ago

Heads up on ROTTENDOG MPU004 - 3 for Data East games.
The PIA's used on the board, I have been trouble shooting, has some kind
of issue with addressing the DMD. W65C21N6TPG-14 lots ABC655.1 2123G029
are flawed.
I have switched around the PIA's to no avail.
I have tested continuity...etc on all components associated with CN22.
Finally, replaced U_9B with a MC6821 PIA and DMD works... displays player 1 fonts are now present.
Just passing this frustrating hair pulling info along.
Cheers.

#2766 1 year ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

Heads up on ROTTENDOG MPU004 - 3 for Data East games.
The PIA's used on the board, I have been trouble shooting, has some kind
of issue with addressing the DMD. W65C21N6TPG-14 lots ABC655.1 2123G029
are flawed.
I have switched around the PIA's to no avail.
I have tested continuity...etc on all components associated with CN22.
Finally, replaced U_9B with a 8621 PIA and DMD works... displays player 1 fonts are now present.
Just passing this frustrating hair pulling info along.
Cheers.

Can you make this a little story like you see on www.pinwiki.com?
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Data_East/Sega#Repair_Logs
Then I will add the text for future ref.
Always good to have this kind of info.

#2767 1 year ago
Quoted from Inkochnito:

Can you make this a little story like you see on www.pinwiki.com?
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Data_East/Sega#Repair_Logs
Then I will add the text for future ref.
Always good to have this kind of info.

Title:
DMD missing, one player game score fonts.
Data East Star Wars - (1.02) roms. with Rottendog MPU004 - 3 board.
Game plays fine, except during one player games the animated score fonts are missing.
With two player games, the player one score fonts would not show, til player two was up.
Isolated the problem down to a bad MPU004 - 3 board.
Tested continuity from CN22 to all associated components, etc.
Rotated all the PIA's W65C21N6TPG-14 and tested the MPU board, to no avail.
Resolution: Replaced U_9B W65C21N6TPG-14 with a MC6821 PIA. The DMD now works correctly.

#2768 1 year ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

Heads up on ROTTENDOG MPU004 - 3 for Data East games.
The PIA's used on the board, I have been trouble shooting, has some kind
of issue with addressing the DMD. W65C21N6TPG-14 lots ABC655.1 2123G029
are flawed.
I have switched around the PIA's to no avail.
I have tested continuity...etc on all components associated with CN22.
Finally, replaced U_9B with a MC6821 PIA and DMD works... displays player 1 fonts are now present.
Just passing this frustrating hair pulling info along.
Cheers.

Is that the new Western Design Center PIA chips? Those are supposed to be solid chips and have only heard good things about those. Haven't heard of any issues with those before? Did you identify just a bad batch of them? If so did you e-mail Rottendig support about it? I had heard they switched over to the Western Design Center chips specifically to improve quality. If you ran into a bad batch you should let them know about it.

If it is just the PIA for the display section then perhaps there is just something in that part of the circuit that doesn't play well with the Western Design Center PIA chips.

#2769 1 year ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

Is that the new Western Design Center PIA chips? Those are supposed to be solid chips and have only heard good things about those. Haven't heard of any issues with those before? Did you identify just a bad batch of them? If so did you e-mail Rottendig support about it? I had heard they switched over to the Western Design Center chips specifically to improve quality. If you ran into a bad batch you should let them know about it.
If it is just the PIA for the display section then perhaps there is just something in that part of the circuit that doesn't play well with the Western Design Center PIA chips.

curious too....

#2770 1 year ago

Keep in mind that this is a Rottendog MPU with the new Western Digital W65C21N6TPG-14 PIA. This is yet another example/reason I don't like repairing or owning Rottendog MPU boards, compatibility issues.

The Western Digital W65C21N6TPG-14 PIA work fine on the ORIGINAL MPU boards.

#2771 1 year ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Keep in mind that this is a Rottendog MPU with the new Western Digital W65C21N6TPG-14 PIA. This is yet another example/reason I don't like repairing or owning Rottendog MPU boards, compatibility issues.
The Western Digital W65C21N6TPG-14 PIA work fine on the ORIGINAL MPU boards.

Well it is too early to tell. The WDC chip may work perfectly fine in the Rottendog boards too. Could just be a bad batch of those chips. Until the root cause is determined it is just speculation.

#2772 1 year ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

Could just be a bad batch of those chips.

That is what I'm thinking. The board might work correctly, if say it is in a Data East Simpson
type game.

#2773 1 year ago

I used 30 of the Western Digital PIA on various original MPU boards including old Bally Solid State MPU, without any issues.

#2774 1 year ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

Title:
DMD missing, one player game score fonts.
Data East Star Wars - (1.02) roms. with Rottendog MPU004 - 3 board.
Game plays fine, except during one player games the animated score fonts are missing.
With two player games, the player one score fonts would not show, til player two was up.
Isolated the problem down to a bad MPU004 - 3 board.
Tested continuity from CN22 to all associated components, etc.
Rotated all the PIA's W65C21N6TPG-14 and tested the MPU board, to no avail.
Resolution: Replaced U_9B W65C21N6TPG-14 with a MC6821 PIA. The DMD now works correctly.

I've added the text to the http://pinwiki.com

2 weeks later
#2775 1 year ago
Quoted from radial_head:

RESOLVED: Lowering the value of R25 to 1k or 1.5k will allow you to bring the volume down to nothing.
Hey there DE/Sega heads. Looking for some confirmation making sure I'm reading this circuit right. I want to discuss the volume control section of the sound board circuit.
The volume input on the circuit seems to take -5V (from the output of VR1) and the pot controls the volume control on the TDA8199. From the way I understand it, the closer you get to ground (0) the louder it is, the closer you get to -5v, the quieter it is.
For a while now, I've just been adding a resistor in series with the volume pot wiring to make sure the volume pot can go ALL the way down, however there's no real ideal or secure way to ensure that a volume pot will stay in place. A slipped wire in the volume pot line can make the board read as 0 and make it go LOUD, which sucks.
So I'm looking at the board and thinking if there's anyway to lower the signal level as a whole to bring the signal closer to, or below, -5V. Thinking that R12, R13, or R25 are the ones I should be focusing on and increasing the value, but not sure which one to start at. I think in the past I changed R25 to something higher, but I also royally fucked that board up in an accident and can't really look back at it for reference.
[quoted image]

I just removed the resistor from r25 on my Lethal Weapon and replaced it with wire. That resistor is just preventing the potentiometer from turning the volume all the way down. The wire is required for the ground continuity otherwise it will probably be full volume I'm guessing. Now I can make the audio completely silent.

#2776 1 year ago

I have a lamp matrix column out. Im 99% sure its the transistor. What are the part numbers for the matrix transistors?

#2777 1 year ago
Quoted from Juicerc51:

I have a lamp matrix column out. Im 99% sure its the transistor. What are the part numbers for the matrix transistors?

Stamped on the transistor body. Also shown on the schematic.

#2778 1 year ago

Hello fellow and sister Data Easters (or are we Data Eastees)?

My Torpedo Alley DMD is not working. Everything else in the game is working and sounds are fine. What fuses or connections should I be looking at or testing?
Thanks in advance!

#2779 1 year ago
Quoted from pinball2020:

Hello fellow and sister Data Easters (or are we Data Eastees)?
My Torpedo Alley DMD is not working. Everything else in the game is working and sounds are fine. What fuses or connections should I be looking at or testing?
Thanks in advance!

Go to this link:

https://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/desega/index1.htm

Go to Table of Contents.
Click on 3 -I : Score Display Problems.
This will tell you all you need to know. It will tell you why your display went dark, and it will tell you what electronic parts you need to replace. It gives part numbers. You need to know how to do board work.

This sure saved my bacon.

#2780 1 year ago
Quoted from radial_head:

I've noticed on the Data East wide bodies I've played (Royal Rumble and GnR specifically) that the GI around the inlanes strobes especially badly when LEDs are installed. I've also noticed that on these games in particular the flashing relay controlled GI is separate from the inlanes and does not strobe at all.
I'm sure these are related, and I'd love to find a good solution to it. Any thoughts? I can't find any indication in the schematics that these GI lines are separate, but I would love to be proven wrong (or right?)

Not sure if this is what you are referring to but it was noted in the Data East Maestro thread that two DE games - GNR and RR - have an additional 5th GI string (Slingshot bulbs) that is powered from a separate source and not via the GI relay...

below is the explanation and link

Quoted from kbliznick:

I am not sure how many games do this, but I do know for sure it is on Guns and Roses, possibly WWF.
The 5 pin connector has the 2 pins that control the GI relay, but on Guns and Roses the 2 leftover pins are used to power a 5th GI circuit. This circuit it actually powered by 2 diodes making rough DC voltage from the logic fuses. This powers the lamps inside the slingshots. Because it's a different source they do not go through the GI relay and are constantly lit even when the relay goes out.
I found out about this variation in GI because of the stupid place they decided to pull the power for it. If a ball gets under the slingshot and blows out a bulb (or if the sockets short, which is very likely with the way the leads almost overlap how they were stapled) then it takes out one of the paired 7A logic fuses and now the game no longer boots up.
So what I am getting to is if you did not run any lamp voltage to these 2 pins on the 5 pin connector on your board then the slingshots lamps on GNR won't work.

#2781 1 year ago
Quoted from Oscope:

Not sure if this is what you are referring to but it was noted in the Data East Maestro thread that two DE games - GNR and RR - have an additional 5th GI string (Slingshot bulbs) that is powered from a separate source and not via the GI relay...
below is the explanation and link

Wow wow wow wow yes this is exactly what I was talking about. The way that this person is describing this makes my issues sound so insanely minimal. Kudos to them to figuring this out.

I guess the now is how to create a smoother voltage for those bulbs..... any thoughts? My dumb brain says just tap into the GI before it hits the relay (or hell even before it hits the PSU) but my smart brain says "you know that definitely won't work and you're overlooking the basic ideas of the flow of electricity"

#2782 1 year ago

Need to replace the power board in my Checkpoint. Half the GI lights are out and I believe it’s due to a bad hack job on CN8.

What female connectors do I need for the two circled ports on this replacement Rottendog board?

The top is the CN8 and the bottom is what I believe you connect the CN9 wires to, which are direct soldered to the factory board.

6D6B9431-BAFE-4708-93A6-77B54CFF757C (resized).jpeg6D6B9431-BAFE-4708-93A6-77B54CFF757C (resized).jpeg
#2783 1 year ago

PBL helped me out:
.156" (3.96mm) 9-Position Housing
Female .093" Pin and Socket Plug Housing

1 week later
#2784 1 year ago

I have a DE Last Action Hero. I do not think the knocker ever worked. Now I have the new chip with 1.13 code that uses the knocker various times during the game such as getting an extra ball.

I changed the coil and checked the fuses (all good). I did a diagnostic test, and the knocker did not fire. The manual was not helpful for me.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

#2785 1 year ago

Does anyone know the dimensions of a Checkpoint game with the head folded down. I have a hard cover on my truck and I am hoping it will fit under the lid.

Mostly looking for the height from the bottom of the body to the top of the head folded down please.

#2786 1 year ago

Just measured with head folded down. A smidge over 29-1/4" at it's highest point from bottom of cabinet to top of folded backbox.

#2787 1 year ago
Quoted from nvu4prod:

Just measured with head folded down. A smidge over 29-1/4" at it's highest point from bottom of cabinet to top of folded backbox.

Thanks so much for the measurement help !!!! Jim

2 weeks later
#2788 1 year ago

Some good news.
Attention Data East Star Wars owners!!!
News from Mantis Amusements:
About the Death Star Ball Deflector
part #535-5380-00

I'd be happy to make it but would need a sample to copy.

Kerry - Mantis
----------------------------
One needs to send Kerry a good sample of the part...
Data East Star Wars pinsiders it is up to you, to make this part a reality.

#2789 1 year ago

Has anyone had any success with weakening their flippers? My Simpsons is totally ridiculous, I find myself avoiding playing it because I'm afraid of breaking stuff. Everything has been rebuilt and the playfield clearcoated so think it's more noticeable. I had 090-5020-30 (23-900) coils that it calls for. I just tried 090-5030-OT (23-1100) which didn't seem to make much difference.

For that matter, all coils in the machine seem too powerful even though I have set the software coil strength to soft. My voltages seem really high but I'm told that's normal.

#2790 1 year ago
Quoted from polyacanthus:

Has anyone had any success with weakening their flippers? My Simpsons is totally ridiculous, I find myself avoiding playing it because I'm afraid of breaking stuff. Everything has been rebuilt and the playfield clearcoated so think it's more noticeable. I had 090-5020-30 (23-900) coils that it calls for. I just tried 090-5030-OT (23-1100) which didn't seem to make much difference.
For that matter, all coils in the machine seem too powerful even though I have set the software coil strength to soft. My voltages seem really high but I'm told that's normal.

Is the game a reimport? If so someone may have mis-wired the transformer. It happens often.

#2791 1 year ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

Is the game a reimport? If so someone may have mis-wired the transformer. It happens often.

No, I've triple checked. It's wired correctly.

I realize that voltages will be higher with no load. But at the transformer 48v coil I have 55vac.

I get 75v on the flipper voltage with both flippers held. It should be 50 but maybe it's not enough load for a good reading? I wonder what other people show for these voltages.

I've been told these numbers are normal but I have my doubts. If the schematics say 50v how is the technician supposed to validate that when the "unloaded" voltage reads 75v? Seems suspect to me.

#2792 1 year ago
Quoted from polyacanthus:

No, I've triple checked. It's wired correctly.
I realize that voltages will be higher with no load. But at the transformer 48v coil I have 55vac.
I get 75v on the flipper voltage with both flippers held. It should be 50 but maybe it's not enough load for a good reading? I wonder what other people show for these voltages.
I've been told these numbers are normal but I have my doubts. If the schematics say 50v how is the technician supposed to validate that when the "unloaded" voltage reads 75v? Seems suspect to me.

Have you checked for "low line" transformer primary select configuration? The readings you are getting are suggestive of this.

transformer_primary_select.jpgtransformer_primary_select.jpg

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Data_East/Sega#Voltage_Selection_Jumper_Pinout

VAC readings are different from VDC readings because of the waveform. If you really want to get into it then lookup "RMS voltage" and enjoy having your head hurt.

#2793 1 year ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

Have you checked for "low line" transformer primary select configuration? The readings you are getting are suggestive of this.
[quoted image]
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Data_East/Sega#Voltage_Selection_Jumper_Pinout

IMG_20230221_222608785~2 (resized).jpgIMG_20230221_222608785~2 (resized).jpg

#2794 1 year ago

Well. You got me. The only other thing would be to check your line voltage. It might be higher than what you are expecting it to be. A transformer is simply using ratios of windings to change VAC levels. If you're reading 55VAC at the secondary and the winding ratio is correct (assumed to be since you are probably using an OEM unmodified transformer) then the VAC into the primary must be the source.

#2795 1 year ago

My line is 120v, so if anything it should be 4% high not 15%. That's why I wonder what readings others get on their games.

#2796 1 year ago
Quoted from polyacanthus:

Has anyone had any success with weakening their flippers? My Simpsons is totally ridiculous, I find myself avoiding playing it because I'm afraid of breaking stuff.

I know around that time Data East was marketing their flippers as "so strong it could crack walnuts." (laser war ad below)

Maybe it's playing the right way if all the above checks out...?

Screenshot 2023-03-05 at 9.33.37 AM (resized).pngScreenshot 2023-03-05 at 9.33.37 AM (resized).png
#2797 1 year ago
Quoted from scootss:

I know around that time Data East was marketing their flippers as "so strong it could crack walnuts." (laser war ad below)
Maybe it's playing the right way if all the above checks out...?[quoted image]

Interesting, I hadn't seen that before.

Possibly, but that doesn't solve the issue of all the solenoids in the game being being too strong.

And the original question still stands, has anyone had any luck with weakening their flippers?

I'm also still curious what voltages others are seeing.

#2798 1 year ago

Data East, Sega and early Stern games have pretty strong flippers.

#2799 1 year ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Data East, Sega and early Stern games have pretty strong flippers.

All the same org lineage wise..

#2800 1 year ago

Speaking of flippers...my left flipper on Hook has very little hold power ever since I received the game. I replaced the flipper board with a new one, and no dice. In circuit, both coils ohm out the same. I also cleaned the leaf switch on that side to no avail. Any other ideas? The flipper also has an intermittant hum when activated.

Fianlly put the new ramp decals on...this game looks really nice.

20230304_145240 (resized).jpg20230304_145240 (resized).jpg
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