(Topic ID: 329321)

Data east pia confusion

By Bax1

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 9 posts
  • 2 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by PinRetail
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 1 year ago

Got a data east board for an lw3 from a customer. So when I got it, the pia light was locked on. So had to replace ram, rom, processor, three buffers and 2 pia’s. Have tested that my work is good and reset is working. So what I have found is the pia for the coils has pin 12 which is an out going back and forth high and low with pulse on the logic probe. The data lines are all pulsing. The pia led is now a light flicker. When I put the board in my game, it boots but instead of going into attract mode, it’s like it goes into a mode. Any direction is greatly appreciated. I need to get this done

#2 1 year ago

You are in a bit of a bind!

Because 'get it done quick' would be very difficult if I were in your position.

Troubleshooting this exact problem is absolutely quick, easy and trivial, if you have a Leon chip.

I'm sure you are familiar with this page:

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Leon_Borre_Data_East_CPU_Board_Repair

Here is a video:

Matt's Basement has the eprom I use:

https://mattsbasementarcade.com/product/leon-borre-test-roms/

Choose the Williams System 11/DATA EAST MPU version.

Once you have a 'Leon chip' in mere moments you can find the broken solder connection, the defective PIA that is causing your problem.

The reason it's so convenient is that it pulses the appropriate lines slowly, allowing you to see clearly with a logic probe if the signal is present, or clean enough. If you are using the game eprom it's a lot more difficult to see if the lines are cleanly pulsing high and low.

Of course, if a line to a PIA is suspect, putting a replacement PIA in a socket is something you do a lot of with these boards.

Personally? I would tell your customer that they will have to wait until you get a diagnostic chip in, order the chip, and use the Leon Chip to find/fix your problem.

I think that the first half dozen Data East/System 11 board problems I repaired took me a LONG time. I'd be willing to bet that I've repaired thirty boards with the Leon Chip in the time it took me to do my first half dozen without it. It's an unbelievable time saver for board repair.

Good luck, and post what you find!

#3 1 year ago

PinRetail
Thank you for responding and I’m glad you brought up Leon’s test chip. So I am using that and I get all the pias testing proper per test. Once it go to the pulsing portion, the relay doesn’t engage like it does on my good board. What ties the relay to this test?

#4 1 year ago

Ok with Leon’s rom in. 11d pins 10-17 are just dead. That is for the lamp matrix. No high or low. Also pia at 11b pins 10-17 are all high. That’s the display stone output. Relay does not engage during the signal test

#5 1 year ago

May have figured it out. Just for s&g’s I piggybacked those pias with another and the test was working. Each pia did have a dead leg or two so I need to get 2 more fresh pias. Already pulled the old and socketed. Hopefully I can grab a couple from a buddy tomorrow and finish testing

#6 1 year ago

So now all pias needed to be replaced due to others having dead outputs. I’ve now replaced all pias with tested good ones. It still thinks it’s in a game mode but now the lights are at least acting like attract mode. Any ideas? Address decoder?

#7 1 year ago

This is poor help, but...

"It's gotta be something..."

A lot of board repair comes down to just not being willing to give up.

You have to persevere and keep working on it when it no longer makes sense to do so.

I can't tell you the number of things I've fixed just because I kept on it longer than all of the other techs.

Two helpful things for my approach:

Stop doing, and think. In particular, think about what the board's condition is right now, not where you started, not about what you've already fixed. Think very carefully about what the board is doing right now, and how you would approach that problem. Don't think 'well, I'd replace the PIA, but... I... already... did... that...' That's a loop that stops your creative problem solving.

When I'm stuck, I have to approach it as if it were a problem that is new to me. Re-examine things step by step and don't allow myself to consider what I've already done. Examine it as if it was someone elses work.

The second thing that is helpful for my approach is Randy Fromm's board repair technique.

Get the schematic that shows the section of the board you are looking at.

Enlarge it if necessary, but make a photocopy.

Test something. Maybe a chip. When that part has been completely tested good, or better yet replaced, use a yellow highlighter on that part of the photocopied schematic. When a wire goes somewhere, check the trace on the board. Then highlight it on the schematic.

When your schematic is all yellow you've solved the problem.

These methods have been very helpful to me.

Good luck, and let us know what you find!

#8 1 year ago

Solved!!! So during Leon’s test rom pias we’re all showing good. Took all the pias to a buddies house who has a chip tester. Found one was bad. So replaced it and put the game rom back in and no more stuck on music. Game boots just fine. Ram burn in for. 15 mins and no issues. Played a few games and all works perfectly!!

#9 1 year ago

Awesome!

A know a few people here on pinside are much better board repair guys than I am, and their advice is to NOT replace the part with a new part 'just in case' (shotgunning is the technical term). They have been bitten by bad parts being mailed to them (frequently from China), and have had more problems with suspect parts fresh out of the package than they have had problems with suspect parts on the board.

Don't change all the parts! That's a pretty good battle cry.

In particular, this (shotgunning) method of board repair should only be done a stage at a time... put in a part, test. Don't pull five 40-pin chips and wonder why things aren't working now! Anyway...

So.

Bad part.

Good find.

GREAT troubleshooting!

SUCCESS!!!

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