(Topic ID: 245804)

Data east star wars lights problem

By sqloud

4 years ago


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#1 4 years ago

Hello,
I have a DE SW machine that I own for about twenty years now. The game has not been used for sixteen years because I didn't have the room. Last month I finally got the room and time to give it some TLC. Replaced a lot of fuse clips, a few lamps and lamp diodes. Everything is working fine, except for a dimming problem with all lights.
When using the test function there is no problem but when playing a game it looks like there is a loose connection (the lamps flicker a bit) but all connectors are fine. In attract mode just after a game is played it looks like the SW letters on the bottom of the play field don't get enough power, they dim to almost completely off.
Could you please help me trouble shoot to fix this irritating problem.
Thanks!

I am new to Pinside but I used Google and the search function for this forum. So if I did something wrong please let me know and I'll correct it.
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#3 4 years ago

Startek2 thanks for your fast reply. Can I check the bridge rectifier with a multimeter? , I don't think the connectors or bulb sockets are the problem because all lamps have the same problem simultaneously.

#6 4 years ago

There is no evidence of overheating on any of the connectors and I'm not using LED's (except for three flashers in the backbox)

#7 4 years ago

I hope this short video will clarify the problem

#17 4 years ago

Thanks for all the suggestions, I will do the single light check tomorrow.
Could the relay on the powerboard cause a problem like this? When the game ends and the end animation is over (r2d2 getting pulled apart) I hear it click and the lights seem to get more power.
A have another video during gameplay

#20 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

The relay on the power supply is for the GI lights.

So could it be a diode problem caused by the GI that affects the insert lighting? They share the same power supply, right?

#22 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

GI (6VAC) and the insert lamps (18VDC if I recall correctly) are 2 different voltages.

Right, but from the same board. Or are they completely seperate?

#24 4 years ago
Quoted from pacmanretro:

Also wouldn't hurt to check power supply over. Are voltages okay? Do you physically see any buldging/leaking capacitors? If connectors are tight and clean, how does the solder look on the back of the power supply board on the connectors?

Will also check that tomorrow and post pictures of the board.

#26 4 years ago

So I have removed the power board to give it another inspection, all seems fine.
Did the lamp check from diagnostics, all checks out. Only the light that should go on did go on.

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#31 4 years ago

I have caused a new problem now I think..... When I power up the machine, fuse f7 blows. There was a wrong fuse in there that I replaced (5A instead of 0,5A)
Now the display is off, light problems remain...

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#34 4 years ago

I didn't even notice the c7 leakage until it was pointed out here...
Will order the parts and would it be wise to replace the bridge rectifier?

#35 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Ok. Glad to see none of the transistors touching each other, but that means more digging into the lamp matrix circuit, wiring, lamp sockets and their diodes.
Can you try a 1 amp fuse in F7?

I don't have a 1 amp fuse but wouldn't that be a problem to over fuse?

#43 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

This is definitely the best place to check right now. Any lamp sockets or diodes that were replaced. Were they wired correctly? Miswiring can look like a lamp matrix transistor is locked on causing others to dimly light.
Please post pictures of ones you had changed.

Here are the two diodes I replaced

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#44 4 years ago

The f7 fuse problem was a simple one, did not use a SB fuse. SB fuse 0,5 A installed and al works again.
Replaced all caps on the powerboard.

The original problem still remains.... Could this be a software or PIA problem?

#47 4 years ago
Quoted from pacmanretro:

The diode in top pic doesn't look soldered well; Or is it just camera angle?
I notice fair amount of rust/oxidation on those sockets....is it possible that you have corrosion inside a number of sockets causing them to be dim?

A vew sockets have some rust but the problem is with all insert lighting including the popbumpers.

#48 4 years ago
Quoted from pacmanretro:

Maybe you already answered these, but when you light just one lamp, does it come on full brightness? Or same dim?
Did you double check that no other light comes on even super dim when lighting just one?

Wen testing in diagnostics the lights are less bright than during gameplay, right?

#51 4 years ago
Quoted from pacmanretro:

I don't understand the response, sorry.
My questions were:
1. If a specific light is dim (say during play) and you do a test for turning on the same light, but just that one, does it become bright or stay dim?
2. When you have in test mode with just one light on, can you look closely at other bulbs to see if any other ones (that should not be on, since you are testing one at a time) are on? Even SUPER dim.

Thank you for trying to help figure out the problem.
All insert bulbs behave the same at the same time, what is seen in the video is the behavior of al bulbs driven by CN6 and CN7 from the cpu board.
When playing and right after a game (pre attract mode) the lights show this behavior (bright, dim and flickering) when testing is diagnostics the lights are dim all the time but stay on and don't get brighter or dim.

When testing individual lights only that light is on, no other lights come on not even a little.

#52 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

During attract/game play/nor in the single lamp test mode, regular incandescent bulbs should not be acting the way you show in your video.

I was afraid of that...

#54 4 years ago
Quoted from pacmanretro:

Is it ALL controlled lamps? Or a specific group of ones?

All of them behave the same at the same time.

Someone told me to replace the bridgerectifier in the backbox becouse the voltage doesn't look steady. He also suggested to replace the "big blue" capacitor. Could a bad capacitor/bridgerectifier really couse this kind of problem?

#57 4 years ago
Quoted from pacmanretro:

If board voltages are good and solder is good, you may try following wires from socket to socket looking for a bad connection/voltage loss...

I'm not sure about the voltage for the controlled lights, where can I measure the 18v for the lampmatrix?

#58 4 years ago
Quoted from pacmanretro:

If board voltages are good and solder is good, you may try following wires from socket to socket looking for a bad connection/voltage loss...

So I disconnected the plugs c6 and c7 on the cpu board. Connected a testwire to pin 1 on c7 and testwire + diode to pin 1 on c6, connected a lamp socket to the testwire's.
The problem was most noticeable on the Star Wars letters so with this set up I tested the lamp for the letter S. The problem stayed the same.... I think the 18v from the power supply is not stable, where do I test this on the psb?
Can't find anything on that subject on pinwiki or other sources.

#61 4 years ago
Quoted from pacmanretro:

Do you have a manual/schematic?
Here is a quick screenshot of the power supply pins (from PDF off of ipdb.org).
The bulb in video looks pretty bright, but maybe that's just because it is shining in camera? Did it look dimmer than it should be, in person?

Thank you for trying to help.

I will try to make a better video. The lights are not powered stable, they flicker and go dim when they shouldn't.
When popbumpers, slingshots or scoops are operated there is no noticeable diverance but when the outhole kicker is operated the lights, especially the "star wars" letters flicker like a campfire.
When I start a game the lights start a little bit dimmer than usual(no flickering) and when the dead star and r2d2 motor start the lights get brighter and a bit of flickering is noticeable.

#64 4 years ago
Quoted from pacmanretro:

If I have time, I will try looking into voltages on my machine this weekend for you just for comparison.

Thanks in advance.

#65 4 years ago

On my PS the voltage at pin 6/CN4 is between 15v and 16,5v, is this normal or should it be higher ?

#68 4 years ago
Quoted from pacmanretro:

Didnt think about it until after I buttoned it back up, but....that was under load in attract mode (I assume you probably measured same way). Maybe it would read closer to 18VDC without a load on board (connector unplugged), but I'm not sure.

I hope someone can confirm...

#69 4 years ago

I noticed that all lights have the same problem but all the letters in "star wars" on the playfield are much more affected..

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