Data East DMD and boot up problems

SANY2640.JPG

I have a Jurassic Park that has some issues. The voltages at the DMD are within spec. When you power on the game the DMD comes up with version data and then goes blank. The Trex does his start up routine and stops. The game will sometimes boot completely and start a game, sometimes it doesn't. The DMD remains blank after the version info comes up. Without the DMD I can't get to the diagnostics to see what's going on. Anyone have any idea where I should start my troubleshooting. This is my first go around with a DE machine. Also, I have never used Rottendog boards so the dip switches seem backwards but someone has marked through the markings, is it in the correct positions. The games sound works fine.

SANY2643.JPG

#2 9 years ago

CWG

Chrizg

dsmpinball

Des Moines, IA

12y 93,550 2,084 5

Reseat ribbon cables and possibly replace them.

#3 9 years ago

JBK

Pinside member

#4 9 years ago

JBK

Pinside member

Ordered all new ribbon cables, we'll see if it helps. I'll report back when they are in.

#5 9 years ago

KAM

kvan99

Pinside member

Sorry but I doubt it's the ribbon cables...also it has nothing to do with the dmd, sounds like a 6821 chip on the driver board. Everytime one of them fails the game powers on, then flashes the rom version on the dmd and then the game goes dark. Try this gentley press the chips on the board specially at location 11b then power the game on, if it boot then you may a cold solder on one of those chips.

#6 9 years ago

JBK

Pinside member

SANY2645.JPG
Help out a DE Newbie. Here is a picture of the DMD driver board. I have a U11 but no 11b. When I got the machine there had been some suspect work done to this board. U2 had a new machined socket installed (poorly) and the IC wouldn't stay in, just kept falling out. I replaced that socket and see some other work that has been done. Where is the 6821 at 11b. It looks like U9 has a new socket also.

#7 9 years ago

KAM

kvan99

Pinside member

It's not that board...it's the big board in the backbox. The power driver board. However chip 11b was just a guess you need to check that board out for any obvious irregularities.

#8 9 years ago

JBK

Pinside member

I'm going to go through the DMD controller board to check the previous work. My JP has a new rottendog MPU & PPB and a new Xpin power supply board. The only original boards are the DMD driver, sound board and flipper board. What are the dip switch configuration on the DMD controller.

#9 9 years ago

KAM

kvan99

Pinside member

In that case it may be dip switch..sorry can't be a help to you since I've never installed a Rottendog or Xpin board in my games. Also make sure the rom chips you put on the new board are sitting well.

#10 9 years ago

JBK

Pinside member

The ROM chip in the MPU came with the board. I've run the voltages at the TPs and can't find any issues. I can't seem to figure why this thing is hanging up during boot up.

#11 9 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

OP
Quoted from JBK:
I'm going to go through the DMD controller board to check the previous work. My JP has a new rottendog MPU & PPB and a new Xpin power supply board. The only original boards are the DMD driver, sound board and flipper board. What are the dip switch configuration on the DMD controller.

Still have the original boards?

#12 9 years ago

KAM

kvan99

Pinside member

The way you troubleshoot these issues is by disconnecting all the connectors to the power driver board or the CPU (the big rottendog board) except for CN18 (not 100% sure, on the left, one of the upper 2 connectors is usually power ) and try to power on the game and then put them back one by one till the game hangs up to see which connector is causing it, with that you can at least narrow down your problem.

#13 9 years ago

CWG

Chrizg

dsmpinball

Des Moines, IA

12y 93,550 2,084 5

I have a space jam on location and when the game is moved I have this exact problem. Reseating the ribbion cables fixes (temp) it. Need to order new ones but haven't yet.

#14 9 years ago

JBK

Pinside member

I don't have the original boards. This is how the game came to me. kvan99: I'll try this today and see where is gets me. The new ribbon cables should be here with today's mail, we'll see where that gets me. Keep the ideas and suggestions coming. As I've said before this is my first try at repairing a DE pin, so learning a new system takes a little time. Any hints or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

#15 9 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

I'm hoping the new small ribbon cable solves your problem. I had some random freeze ups on my LAH during gameplay due to this small ribbon cable.

#16 9 years ago

QRK

Deez

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 139K 6,778 13

This is the same symptoms of a bad CPU. The display boots seperately from the MPU on a DE game.

#17 9 years ago

JBK

Pinside member

New cables didn't help the situation. When I unplug the ribbon cable from the MPU to the DMD controller board the game will boot and play. With it plugged in the game freezes in the boot sequence. Is it safe to figure the DMD controller board is a fault. The DMD control board is getting proper +5v and ground. This board is the one that has some pretty bad hacks and poor component replacements done in the past. It might be time for a replacement board. Someone please weigh in on this.

#18 9 years ago

KAM

kvan99

Pinside member

Well..IMO you found the issue. can you take a DMD controller from another machine and test to confirm?

#19 9 years ago

JBK

Pinside member

The only one I have is a sega MS frankenstein. I don't have any other DE machines.

#20 9 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

Try plugging in the small cable on the controller board the other direction.

#21 9 years ago

CMX

viperrwk

Inactive member

New Haven, CT

12y 42,650 4,167

What is the revision of the CPU ROM on the RD board? If it's not rev 5 then you will have a problem. Since the DMD controller is v5, the major revision of the CPU ROM has to match otherwise you will have problems.

viperrwk

#22 9 years ago

JBK

Pinside member

I have no idea. It isn't marked with the version number. KSarcade.net / jurassic park is how it's labeled. Since its a rottendog board with one rom, where can I get version 5 of the JP software that is burned to one rom.

#23 9 years ago

JBK

Pinside member

IPDB has versions 513 & 510. Is the 510 the one I need. I think I have some blank 2716 roms that might work.

#24 9 years ago

JBK

Pinside member

OOPS, 2716 won't work. What type of ROM does this use?

#25 9 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

Watch as the game boots up. Normally you would see it before the display version that you show in your picture, if I recall correctly.

#26 9 years ago

JBK

Pinside member

Nothing shows before the display version info. I see it uses a 27C512a ROM. Is it worth a try to reprogram the MPU rom with the version 510 rom data off IPDB. It's almost like the MPU and DMD are not communicating.

#27 9 years ago

KJK

KillyKillall

Inactive member

Tucson, AZ

10y 14,400 224 3

I have seen this exact same issue when I installed a NVRAM chip incorrectly on a DE machine. Could this have to do with the RAM chip (D5, 6264)?

#28 9 years ago

JBK

Pinside member

I will check the D5 chip.

#29 9 years ago

CMX

viperrwk

Inactive member

New Haven, CT

12y 42,650 4,167

Yes, you need a 27512 EPROM.

If you have the ability to reprogram the EPROM, you could also check which version is installed.

Any v5.x version would be fine. Though you could also reprogram the display ROM to 5.10 and the CPU to 5.13.

Quoted from KillyKillall:
I have seen this exact same issue when I installed a NVRAM chip incorrectly on a DE machine. Could this have to do with the RAM chip (D5, 6264)?

Since he's using a Rottendog board, chances are this is not the problem.

If a new game ROM doesn't solve the problem, I'd get in touch with Jim at Rottendog to discuss the problem to rule out the MPU board as the issue.

viperrwk

#30 9 years ago

JBK

Pinside member

#31 9 years ago

JBK

Pinside member

OK, I found my UV eprom eraser and cleared the V5.01 data out of the 27c040 display rom. Reprogrammed it with the V5.10 data and it shows the correct version on the DMD upon power up; but the machine continues to lockup during startup. I guess it's time for a new controller board. This thing is starting to be a money pit.

#32 9 years ago

JBK

Pinside member

Pulled and reprogrammed the game rom with the V5.13 file, no change in how the game is acting. I'll try contacting rottendog tomorrow and see if they have any advice.

#33 9 years ago

CWG

Chrizg

dsmpinball

Des Moines, IA

12y 93,550 2,084 5

OP
Quoted from JBK:
New cables didn't help the situation. When I unplug the ribbon cable from the MPU to the DMD controller board the game will boot and play. With it plugged in the game freezes in the boot sequence. Is it safe to figure the DMD controller board is a fault. The DMD control board is getting proper +5v and ground. This board is the one that has some pretty bad hacks and poor component replacements done in the past. It might be time for a replacement board. Someone please weigh in on this.

I will buy those ribbon cables if you don't want them

#34 9 years ago

JBK

Pinside member

Well I found the boot up issue. The playfield wire harness had a wire that had been pinched/stripped. Evidently it had been pinched at some point when the playfield was lowered. Now everything works properly except the DMD; but it will now boot with the DMD plugged in. A new DMD controller is on the way, we see how that works in a couple of days. The original is hacked up bad. Maybe when I get the replacement I'll repair the original to use later.

#35 9 years ago

JBK

Pinside member

Quoted from Chrizg:
I will buy those ribbon cables if you don't want them

For now I'm going to hang onto them until everything gets working.

3 years later

#36 5 years ago

newmanoconnor

Pinside member

I Am having the same issue, except its just the DMD Issue. The game boots and plays fine, just no DMD. Any Ideas?

#37 5 years ago

CLY

Cycloneman

Inactive member

Detroit, MI

8y 36,150 649

Quoted from newmanoconnor:
I Am having the same issue, except its just the DMD Issue. The game boots and plays fine, just no DMD. Any Ideas?

did you check the voltages with a meter

#38 5 years ago

newmanoconnor

Pinside member

Quoted from Cycloneman:
did you check the voltages with a meter

I did, Everything is normal. I can't figure it out.

#39 5 years ago

CLY

Cycloneman

Inactive member

Detroit, MI

8y 36,150 649

ok,do you have another ribbon cable you can try?

#40 5 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

Quoted from newmanoconnor:
I did, Everything is normal. I can't figure it out.

What game is this?

#41 5 years ago

newmanoconnor

Pinside member

Quoted from Cycloneman:
ok,do you have another ribbon cable you can try?

I've tried new ribbon cables, and new ROM and new Controller board. Same issue.

#42 5 years ago

CLY

Cycloneman

Inactive member

Detroit, MI

8y 36,150 649

Quoted from newmanoconnor:
I've tried new ribbon cables, and new ROM and new Controller board. Same issue.

i sure hate to say this but maybe it came to the end of its life

#43 5 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

Quoted from newmanoconnor:
I've tried new ribbon cables, and new ROM and new Controller board. Same issue.

If is the DMD in your Jurassic Park, try the DMD in Getaway.

#44 5 years ago

newmanoconnor

Pinside member

Swapped in Good DMD's, no bueno. It's DMD works in other machines.

I feel like there is something with the power supply or driver board. Fuse F7 on the supply(.5a SB) was blown.

Whenever I hookup the 7pin connector with the high voltage to the power supply,the far left pop bumper flashes continuously and it ejects two balls, everytime.

But its not the high voltage itself I don't think, because I have the same issue with a Color DMD.

Arrrrgh

#45 5 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

Quoted from newmanoconnor:
Fuse F7 on the supply(.5a SB) was blown.

that is for the high voltage, which the ColorDMD does not use.

Quoted from newmanoconnor:
Whenever I hookup the 7pin connector with the high voltage to the power supply,the far left pop bumper flashes continuously and it ejects two balls, everytime.

Are you doing this with power on? If so, that is not a good idea.

Post a picture of everything in the backbox and the back of the speaker panel.

#46 5 years ago

newmanoconnor

Pinside member

Quoted from PinballManiac40:
that is for the high voltage, which the ColorDMD does not use.

Are you doing this with power on? If so, that is not a good idea.
Post a picture of everything in the backbox and the back of the speaker panel.

I’m aware it doesn’t use the high voltage, and no I’m not doing anything with the power on.

1 year later

#47 4 years ago

TKM

Daditude

Pinside Moderator

Rockwall, TX

5y 266K 10,116 23 271

Im having the same exact issue.
Does anyone have suggestions? Has anyone fixed this issue?

#48 4 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent