Data East ball trough fix video: JP,LAH,TFTC,Tommy,WWFRR,GNR

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By ChadH

3 years ago


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  • Started 3 years ago
  • 38 posts
  • 14 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 months ago by CyberNinja24

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11
#1 3 years ago

Ever playing multiball on one of your Data East games such as JP, LAH, TFTC, Tommy, WWFRR, or GNR and your game loses track of the balls on the playfield or in the ball trough? Sometimes you drain back down to one ball after a multiball mode but the game still thinks you are in multiball? Or you drain all the balls and the game still thinks there is a ball on the playfield and you have to wait for ball search to kick in?

This video describes what your issue might be and how to fix it:
» YouTube video

Here is the switch shown in the video:
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/180-5118-00

I want to note that even if your switch is detecting fine, it might still be faulty and I would still recommend replacing it regardless.

Thanks to fellow Pinsider NewPinOwner for informing us all about this issue in this thread:
http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/testing-de-ball-trough-switches

#2 3 years ago

thanks for the video, I have a tftc, and have a problem like this, but also I thing the ball release solenoid is letting 2 balls slip past it sometimes when only one should be let out of the trough, I'm not sure what to do with that..

#3 3 years ago

Thanks for that info! I've had that problem intermittently on my JP as well.

#4 3 years ago

Yep, nice vid.....pretty common problem

#5 3 years ago

Thanks a lot. Now i only need a german shop with this switch ...or at least EU.

Is it possible that there is a wrong part no. for this switch in the manual?
In the manual i got the port no. for this switch is 180-5119-00 like the other 6 switches bevor this one. Definitely wrong! 180-5118-00 like you said in your video is right.

Just saying.

#6 3 years ago
Quoted from NFK:

Is it possible that there is a wrong part no. for this switch in the manual?
In the manual i got the port no. for this switch is 180-5119-00 like the other 6 switches bevor this one. Definitely wrong! 180-5118-00 like you said in your video is right.

That's odd. The JP manual at ipdb.org also shows the switch listed as 180-5118-00 and description of "Switch, Miniature". It's on page 99 and 100 of the PDF... it's Item number 4.

Either way... the Marco link above is the correct switch.

#7 3 years ago

Cool video..thanks for taking time out but you don't need to change the switch you just need to bend the arm out a bit so the ball can activate the switch where ever it sits in the trough. I fixed 2 switches on my LAH, I also have RBION and it had the same issue...all 3 cases I bent the arm a little so it will get activated.

#8 3 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

Cool video..thanks for taking time out but you don't need to change the switch you just need to bend the arm out a bit so the ball can activate the switch where ever it sits in the trough. I fixed 2 switches on my LAH, I also have RBION and it had the same issue...all 3 cases I bent the arm a little so it will get activated.

For some, just bending the switch might help. But I don't think bending my switch would have fixed it 100%. As I mentioned in the video, it took quite a bit of pressure to close the original switch, while the new switch would very easily close with little pressure. The key is that the switch must be able to easily close with just the weight of the ball on it.

#9 3 years ago

Awesome video, man! Glad all is well with your JP again!

Great explanation on the video. I would have inadvertently over-explained and made it out to be way more complicated. You were pretty straight and to the point - well done!

#10 3 years ago

Nice helpful video. You gotta love Marco prices. $10 for a switch? I looked and PBL does NOT have this switch, but if they did, it would probably be about $4.50.

#11 3 years ago

If the arm is in good condition, I believe you should just be able to move it to a new switch for much cheaper:
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=1578

1 year later
#12 2 years ago

I finally got a new switch but it did not fix the issue. :/

Maybe I have to bent the new one a lil...

1 year later
#13 5 months ago
Quoted from NFK:

I finally got a new switch but it did not fix the issue. :/
Maybe I have to bent the new one a lil...

I am having the same results as well. The only difference for me however is that I replaced ALL the trough switches and diodes and I replaced the eject solenoid switch as noted in the video (I forgot to replace the diode on this switch but will later; I'm very doubtful that's the issue but just in case). Two out of the three chaos modes I started ended up with a ball waiting on the eject solenoid just like before.

#14 5 months ago
Quoted from TimeWarp1:

I am having the same results as well. The only difference for me however is that I replaced ALL the trough switches and diodes and I replaced the eject solenoid switch as noted in the video (I forgot to replace the diode on this switch but will later; I'm very doubtful that's the issue but just in case). Two out of the three chaos modes I started ended up with a ball waiting on the eject solenoid just like before.

Go into switch test mode and make sure all your switches are being tripped properly as the ball makes it ways from the STDM drain to the outlane to the trough. Everything has to trigger for it to behave properly. Used to drive me crazy.

#15 5 months ago

I did some testing by throwing the ball sdtm and I noticed sometimes it would skip the first switch. I've since adjusted every trough switch so that their roller is as high as possible hence increasing the sensitivity. I was a little confused by your order of operations though. Do you mean when the ball goes sdtm but rebounds up an outline then back down the drain? Since my latest adjustments I cheated two chaos modes with instant drains (as a test) and two real chaos modes and everything worked well!

#16 5 months ago

What I meant was once it goes SDTM, it goes into what I may have incorrectly referred to as the outlane trough (where on some games, there is a switch which kicks the ball from left to right back into the ball trough), and a solenoid kicks the balls back "into line" as the game gives you your bonus and you patiently wait for the next ball to begin. I didn't mean the actual outlanes that run parallel with the inlanes near the flippers. Sorry for that confusion :).

Sounds like your game is working though :D??

#17 5 months ago

Well, of course it worked golden for 5+ chaos modes and triballs and last night I again had to wait for a ball to get kicked into the shooter lane during a chaos mode. This issue is really a PITA. I'm going to replace the last diode I forgot that's on the actual switch for the vuk on the trough though I have my doubts that will help.

#18 5 months ago

Check to see if the switch at the very end needs to be adjusted at all. That seems very strange for it to be acting up on you if you replaced all the switches. I'm betting the one at the end just barely needs to be adjusted. It sounds like you're right on the cusp of it working 100%.

1 week later
#19 5 months ago
Quoted from NPO:

Check to see if the switch at the very end needs to be adjusted at all. That seems very strange for it to be acting up on you if you replaced all the switches. I'm betting the one at the end just barely needs to be adjusted. It sounds like you're right on the cusp of it working 100%.

I believe you're right as last week I spent a good 10 minutes bending the metal arm on the VUK switch so that it's very sensitive to closures. I got it to the point that in its resting state it's slightly pre-loaded so the slightest touch will activate it. Haven't had to wait for a ball since. I should note that oddly enough the new switch has more tension than the old switch. I saved the old switch just in case as I think all I really needed to do was adjust the metal armature. Thanks to all!

#20 5 months ago

I am now having issues with my ball trough on gnr. I adjust the arms of the six switches along with the switch close to the ball launch. This fixes the issue for the short term, but inivedably the issues come back. Order all new switches? I don't mind putting money into it and getting it fixed. Gnr might be my favorite game and I need her running on all cylinders. Any suggestions are appreciated.

#21 5 months ago
Quoted from CyberNinja24:

I am now having issues with my ball trough on gnr. I adjust the arms of the six switches along with the switch close to the ball launch. This fixes the issue for the short term, but inivedably the issues come back. Order all new switches? I don't mind putting money into it and getting it fixed. Gnr might be my favorite game and I need her running on all cylinders. Any suggestions are appreciated.

Go into switch test mode, and roll a ball through the ball trough. ANY switches that are not tripping properly, swap them out. Trust me, you'll be much happier ;).

#22 5 months ago
Quoted from CyberNinja24:

I am now having issues with my ball trough on gnr. I adjust the arms of the six switches along with the switch close to the ball launch. This fixes the issue for the short term, but inivedably the issues come back. Order all new switches? I don't mind putting money into it and getting it fixed. Gnr might be my favorite game and I need her running on all cylinders. Any suggestions are appreciated.

I double checked and if you ordered all new parts from pinballlife.com (6 rollover switches (180-5119-02) + 1 trough switch (180-5118-00) + 10 1N4004 Diodes it'll be about $35 shipped. I would shotgun the whole trough and the beat down 22 year old switches and be done with it forever. Note that you will still may need to adjust the metal armature on the VUK switch like I did but it's been 100% solid since.

2 weeks later
#23 4 months ago

Spent all morning screwing around with this GD ball trough. It's driving me mad. Brand new switches and diodes don't do anything for my machine. Sure seems to me that I have to bend the arm of the switch just right otherwise it doesn't work.

After putting in new switches and diodes, I fired it up and it spit out three balls. Clearly the arms need to be bent up otherwise they just slide down to the eject spot. So, I bend em up and then it can't sense the ball has drained. I'm ready to call a tech and spend whatever it takes to get this fixed because it's driving me bananas.

#24 4 months ago
Quoted from CyberNinja24:

Spent all morning screwing around with this GD ball trough. It's driving me mad. Brand new switches and diodes don't do anything for my machine. Sure seems to me that I have to bend the arm of the switch just right otherwise it doesn't work.
After putting in new switches and diodes, I fired it up and it spit out three balls. Clearly the arms need to be bent up otherwise they just slide down to the eject spot. So, I bend em up and then it can't sense the ball has drained. I'm ready to call a tech and spend whatever it takes to get this fixed because it's driving me bananas.

I actually should have done a follow up post as I ran into an issue with the new VUK switch. The main solution to the problem is that when the ball is resting above the VUK you must have the switch the ball rests on closed. I thought everything was great until the same problem occurred again with all new switches. I took a close look at the VUK switch and the tension on the new switch is too strong. I manually pushed the switch closed with the ball but when I let go the tension from the switch would actually push the ball back and go open again. I ended up replacing it with the original old switch and this particular issue is solved. A new issue arrived (or maybe it's just me) in that sometimes there's a two second delay before the VUK pops the ball into the shooter lane but it's sporadic enough to where I don't care much as the game works 100% otherwise.

I would go into diagnostics and go to the active switch test and verify that with all the balls in the trough that each switch is showing up in the test. What I would do next is move the ball closest to the VUK back so that all the balls come off the switches and let go. You should hear/see all six switches close from the test sound and what the DMD screen shows. Alternatively you can empty the trough and let a ball slide down and watch the DMD to see if each switch registers. If this is all clear then you can forget about the six rollovers as an issue.

#25 4 months ago

Don't want to declare victory yet, but I went through the switches again and replaced some of the new switches that I wasn't happy with. Long story short, after about ten games, it seems to be working well.

#26 4 months ago

If you're getting flaky readings on your trough switches, don't forget to check the trough itself. Over the years they can become worn, especially close to where the ball that kicks into the VUK area is, and create a divot causing the ball to rest there instead of the intended spot and then the balls do not rest on the switches properly. Sometimes a repair of the old trough may be possible, other times a new trough is needed.

#27 4 months ago

The ball trough caused me to snap tonight. There are divots there which must be causing the balls to not sit properly. I will be taking the entire thing out and replacing evening including the trough. So maddening.

#28 4 months ago

Where can I get a new trough? Link please.

#29 4 months ago

I would use sandpaper to smooth the inside of the trough back down. That's what I did way back in 2012 or so.

#30 4 months ago

Got a bad case of the dimples it appears.....

image (resized).jpeg

image (resized).jpeg

#31 4 months ago

Some serious divots going on there. The part number is 535-6621-00 but seems to be impossible to find unless you can find another Data East parts machine.

#32 4 months ago

I'm going to try to smooth out the divots. See if that makes any difference. I'll report back since I'm guessing I'm not the only one having issues with this.

#33 4 months ago

I used sandpaper to smooth the divots on both WWF and JP. Even small divots can cause problems on these DE games.

#34 4 months ago
Quoted from TimeWarp1:

Some serious divots going on there. The part number is 535-6621-00 but seems to be impossible to find unless you can find another Data East parts machine.

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=4121

This wouldn't work?

#35 4 months ago
Quoted from Agent_Hero:

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=4121
This wouldn't work?

That actually looks identical and it does say it can be used as a 6-ball. Looks like it also comes with all the switches and diodes presoldered. Nice find. They should really have this appear or at least cross referenced when searching "535-6621-00" in their search bar.

#36 4 months ago

Sanded the divots like crazy and also cleaned the coil that allows one ball at a time to advance. Mine was quite sludged up from years of sitting.

Not declaring victory yet but it sure seemed to run perfectly for a few quick games.

If this doesn't work, I'll order the above referenced new trough.

1 month later
#37 87 days ago
Quoted from CyberNinja24:

...
Not declaring victory yet but it sure seemed to run perfectly for a few quick games.
If this doesn't work, I'll order the above referenced new trough.

Does it fixed the issue?

Thank you

#38 82 days ago

Check your ball trough for dimples before replacing all the switches. For me, sanding the dimples out of the ball trough got me up and going. I highly encourage checking this first. Easy to do.

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