(Topic ID: 68506)

Damn you, Rick Bartlett!!


By Bryan_Kelly

5 years ago



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  • 199 posts
  • 77 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Bryan_Kelly
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    There are 199 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 4.
    #151 5 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Just like people said that MM would NEVER be remade, let's just revisit this thread in 2 years and see if HEP, NEO and I run out of work.

    I say we won't.

    Agreed! There will always be demand for "better than new", for some collectors. And if some of you have never seen what these professional restorers do to a game (in person), you cant appreciate it. They're almost to nice to play.

    #152 5 years ago
    Quoted from DirtySouth:

    I would still value a top end restore of an original game substantially over a remake. JMHO, of course.

    But would you pay for one?

    #153 5 years ago

    There are obviously a number of factors that play a role in the decision for a high-end restoration, including fair-market value of the restored machine. But even when I think of a machine that commands a good price (restored or original) such as TZ, I also look at it being one that often may have a nice original playfield to start with. The cabinet may be faded, but pf wear isn't nearly as common as it is on other machines. Now MM, MB, CC, and AFM are all on higher ground when it comes to fair-market value. That next tier might include TZ, IJ, or such. I wonder how much people would pay for a NIB TAF remake as I have no doubt like MM it has its own magical number.

    On another note, if someone is dressing up as Bryan Kelly for Halloween, how much beer should they have with them or should they simply ask for one at each house?

    Brad

    #154 5 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    I guess that's where I lose you.

    A restoration is about $6k. MMr is $8k.

    Seems like I now have $2k LESS to spend on a restoration, not more.

    Sure 6K for restoration + 12K for a routed game = $18k

    So by my logic, that leaves 10K to restore or buy more pins with.

    #155 5 years ago
    Quoted from jellikit:

    On another note, If someone is dressing up as Bryan Kelley for Halloween, how much beer should they have with them or should they simply ask for one at each house?

    Cheese.

    Don't forget the cheese!

    #156 5 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Sure 6K + 12K for a routed beater = 18k
    So by my logic, that leaves 10K to restore or buy more pins with.

    I edited my post to add that I was making certain assumptions about whether someone already had an original MM and how much they paid for it.

    But yes, I understand your logic.

    #157 5 years ago
    Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

    But would you pay for one?

    I would pay more for a "professionally restored" original MM over a MMR, without question. Like I said earlier, I don't know if you've ever seen one in person, but they are incredible. Granted, whoever is doing the restoration can make all the difference.

    #158 5 years ago
    Quoted from Honch:

    This is another reason I would prefer an original MM. All this talk about those old WPC 95 boards being unreliable is BS. And even when I do have a problem, they are generally fairly easy to repair. That won't be the case with these new boards.

    You're right. That's why you buy a new one. For $40.

    #159 5 years ago

    I wish no ill will to high-end restorers and their families. I also didn't wish ill will towards hi-fi stereo salesmen or repair specialists when the CD and eventually iPod had negative consequences to their business. If you run a business that has a narrow focus then, as I said earlier, you have to adapt, or suffer the consequences, that goes for any business.
    As for the example presented of someone who feeds their family from restoring pins...again I don't wish them ill will, but he made a career and business choice, and every business and career has its ups and downs that you have to accept and adapt to.

    I also could care less to get into a those who can and those who can not debate over high priced games or the choice to restore. There will always be people who feel that will define their life on their possessions and the condition of them. And there will always be people like me who prefer to play the game rather than worry about a speck of dust and we do all the work ourselves, people who could care less to have a 'blinged' out machine. Good for the OP and other restorers if there are people who choose to spend their money on such excess, its their money they can do what ever they want with it.

    You all really missed my point...many on here have gone overboard with sob stories and anger over the MMr announcement. Get over it. Move on. I don't cry because my CC might be less valuable and there is nothing I can do about it. And I don't lay the blame on one guy or one company, in jest or otherwise. Blame yourselves for driving up the market making it blatantly obvious to a sucessful businessman that he can do remakes and make a profit doing so. That's good business.

    #160 5 years ago

    The collectors will still send games out to get restored. Ask HEP what game he does the most? TZ not MM!! The collectors will just go after the more collectibles such as TAF, ACDC BIBLE, Tron LE.......

    #161 5 years ago
    Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

    You're right. That's why you buy a new one. For $40.

    I much rather just replace a few transistors for $5.00. If you're into swaptronics, have at it.

    #162 5 years ago
    Quoted from caligirl:

    I also didn't wish ill will towards hi-fi stereo salesmen or repair specialists when the CD and eventually iPod had negative consequences to their business.

    On the way to work, I pass a TV repair joint that still has painted on the side of their building "VCR REPAIR $99".

    I often want to walk in with an old VCR and say "Darn thing just went out on me!".

    #163 5 years ago

    I wish I could get a $40 CPU for Nascar.

    #164 5 years ago
    Quoted from Honch:

    just because of greed that everything is a cheaply made?

    That could be it, the parts are just not the same . AFM green targets will break in a few games and original last for 10s of thousands of games ? If you study the OEM parts vs repop parts ,not only can you see slight differences you can feel them as well..

    #165 5 years ago
    Quoted from Honch:

    Agreed! There will always be demand for "better than new", for some collectors. And if some of you have never seen what these professional restorers do to a game (in person), you cant appreciate it. They're almost to nice to play.

    As HUO has always been plenty good for me, settling for just ordinary "new" will be easy. And will be played.

    #166 5 years ago
    Quoted from Honch:

    I much rather just replace a few transistors for $5.00. If you're into swaptronics, have at it.

    Time is money. But I'm with you. Maybe in a few years those boards will be $5 too. That's usually how electronics works.

    #167 5 years ago

    You gotta hand it to HEP. Anyone that earns 100% of their living restoring games for a dying (it was once anyway) hobby wheels his balls around in front of him with a wheel barrow.

    #168 5 years ago
    Quoted from McCune:

    If you study the OEM parts vs repop parts ,not only can you see slight differences you can feel them as well..

    Interesting, I always thought the quality was similiar. I never actually compared old and new.

    Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

    As HUO has always been plenty good for me, settling for just ordinary "new" will be easy. And will be played.

    HUO would be good enough for me too, but sometimes people want more and restorers can deliver.

    #169 5 years ago
    Quoted from McCune:

    That could be it, the parts are just not the same . AFM green targets will break in a few games and original last for 10s of thousands of games ? If you study the OEM parts vs repop parts ,not only can you see slight differences you can feel them as well..

    You can say that again.

    My green AFM repro targets look different (they are more transparent, the color is not as dark) and I busted two of them in a month.

    23
    #170 5 years ago

    Since HEP and myself seem to come up often in these new threads I will make a public announcement
    As far as I am concerned all is well.If that changes I will see it coming and adapt but I never really focused on anything other than what people sent me.My core talent has allowed me to take in all types of games over the years and it gives some flexibility for lack of parts,demand, market shifts and hype. I will just continue to focus on doing the best job I can with what is sent and the rest will take care of itself..

    Christopher Hutchins

    IMG_20130526_114214_173-172.jpg

    #172 5 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    You can say that again.
    My green AFM repro targets look different (they are more transparent, the color is not as dark) and I busted two of them in a month.

    I use originals next to the hallway and the repros on the sides.
    I broke one of the repros on the first game I played when I got my AFM back together.

    #173 5 years ago

    Chris,

    Your clients need a lot of Pinball Armor!

    Brad

    #174 5 years ago
    Quoted from tracelifter:

    I use originals next to the hallway and the repros on the sides.
    I broke one of the repros on the first game I played when I got my AFM back together.

    I broke one right next to the SOL hole (no surprise there, that one takes a beating), but the other one was the lowest target on the left side. That one surprised me.

    #175 5 years ago
    Quoted from McCune:

    The new collectibles are Sterns !

    Interesting theory--seems at least a plausible scenario (especially for some of the low-production Stern limited runs--if Rick can in theory run any WMS title at-will to satisfy any and all demand).

    Who knows--only time will tell.

    #177 5 years ago
    Quoted from Astropin:

    Didn't I here that replacement boards were going to be like $40?

    The off the shelf minicomputer (BeagleBone Black, Rasp Pi, Arduino, whatever) acting as CPU/emulator would be $40 or less. But that, like the WPC95 CPU boards, should rarely (if ever, really) go bad.

    The board in question is whatever board is acting as the power driver board. Converting power, sending 50V to the coils, etc. That board will be nowhere near $40.

    #178 5 years ago
    Quoted from cfh:

    exactly. i'm not normally a betting type, but my bet is the reissue MM will be total crap, from tip to toe. every corner will be cut. it will make new Sterns look "good." that's my bet.

    Clay - you've been around this hobby a long time and I usually agree with you, but I'll bet you are absolutely wrong, especially if you believe this is just a money grab. Good remakes that everyone wants is the pinball equivalent of the Golden Goose - no way Rick is going to kill it. If anything, the first one (MMR) will be overbuilt to hook everyone right up front, "fatten the goose" so to speak for AFMR or whatever comes next.

    #179 5 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    I broke one right next to the SOL hole (no surprise there, that one takes a beating), but the other one was the lowest target on the left side. That one surprised me.

    The game probably plays really hot for the first hundred games or so, mine was blasting airballs from the left flipper halfway up the cow ramp and I had to adjust the EOS switches to slow the flippers down.
    Try a powerball in it, wicked fast.

    #180 5 years ago

    Hopefully, the $8K a pop market will force the wanna bees out once and for all. This is good.

    Newbies, it's sink or swim time. How bad do you want to stay in this hobby?

    #181 5 years ago

    I'd prefer a Original over the remake all things being equal. I want to see what's going on before I put down the rest of the money. Seems a couple of my friends have already gotten cold feet and bailed on the whole MMLE idea. It's not collectible if PP is going to run them till the market is saturated.

    #182 5 years ago
    Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

    It's really pretty simple, Mike. If someone has a MB that plays fine, why spend almost as much as a remake to have it restored. They'll just keep it like it is until they find out future remake titles.

    I completely agree. I was going to have my AFM restored at some point, but since it's fine to play for now I'm hoping for a remake. Having an original is not important to me if they play the same.

    #183 5 years ago

    Screw restorations Bryan.......retire, sell the house, move to Benton, and work with Charlie.......that's what you really want to do anyways!

    #184 5 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    Jackassery at it's finest.

    Funny, all I see is ignored user comment must be Fuzznutz since he is the only one on the group in my bozo bin.

    #185 5 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    You mean like Roger Sharpe, that works for Williams still. And has to give it his okay on looks and it has to play like the original before he signs off ?
    LTG : )

    Wasn't who i was thinking, but now that you bring it up, yep.
    Roger is the "license man" at Wms. He's looking at this from the perspective of how the remake qualifies with the Wms licensing. And he'll do whatever is good for Wms. He is their agent. He cashes their paychecks. He doesn't work for us. He works for Wms. So his approval vets on that, not if it's a "good" or "bad" game. He may say otherwise, but he's doing what's best for Wms (which isn't necessarily what's best for "us".)

    #186 5 years ago
    Quoted from jfh:

    Clay - you've been around this hobby a long time and I usually agree with you, but I'll bet you are absolutely wrong, especially if you believe this is just a money grab. Good remakes that everyone wants is the pinball equivalent of the Golden Goose - no way Rick is going to kill it. If anything, the first one (MMR) will be overbuilt to hook everyone right up front, "fatten the goose" so to speak for AFMR or whatever comes next.

    I hope you're right. I would love to be completely wrong on this issue. But you should look at the history of the players involved. And it all points to the direction i'm stating. Predicting the future is best done with information from the past. But that obviously doesn't mean things will play out that way. Again, i hope you're right...

    #187 5 years ago
    Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

    You pretty much hit the nail on the head. The number one game I've restored has been MB, followed by AFM, MM and CC. Oddly enough, WH2O would be fifth on the list and maybe SS after that.

    Just wait it out.

    They are not remaking MB without clearing the license from Universal. It is my understanding that only original B/W titles can be remade. WH20, CC, AFM may get the remake. I'd predict MB to be the most sought after game after everything is said and done then TAF, TZ, and Indiana Jones will be the sought after title to have restored as they probably are not getting a remake do to license issues.

    #188 5 years ago
    Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

    I agree on the lull, Kim. Until MMR actually comes out and we can see the quality of it, I think there are a lot of collectors sitting put. Possible future remake announcements also complicates things.
    As for restoring older titles, it's certainly a possibility, but having done nothing but WPC and WPC-95 games for the last ten years or so, it'd be tough to change things up. Not out of the question, though.

    Ummmm.... I've got a Banzai that's feeling left out by you WPC whores.

    #189 5 years ago

    The remake of MM is really fascinating when you stop and think about it. I think when all the consequences work their way through the hobby, this will effect a very large percentage of the people involved with pinball, if not just about everyone in the hobby. As the op stated, there are going to be people, at least in the short term, that are not going to commission projects. Plus some of the people that do their own restorations are probably not doing some. This has got to effect sales of things like replacement decals, plastics, playfields, ramps, etc. If I had a game that was players quality and was one of the ones rumored to have a chance of being remade, there is no way I'd buy something like a new playfield for it. If now sales of playfields for games like MB and AFM grind to a halt, what is that going to do the company that invested in making them? Could that discourage future growth in other parts offerings in the future?

    Overall, I am glad to see these games being remade, and I am sure the people involved like Rick had no intention of harming anyone, but when this much money shifts in one direction, there are consequences. Definitely winners and losers in this. I think we are all glad to see flippers go into the losers category, but I think pro restorers, playfield restorers, decal suppliers, playfield reproducers, powder coaters, chrome platers, Stern, boutique makers, etc. are all going to be hit in the pocketbook from this. Hopefully long term everyone survives this, but who knows?

    Interesting times to be in the hobby for sure.

    #190 5 years ago

    I agree with you, and disagree with you at the same time. Yes, Roger is looking out for Williams and their best interests, he cashes their paychecks. But, in this case, both for Williams and Roger's reputation, isn't it best to have a perfect copy? If the game sucks, no more remakes will be made, and Williams doesn't get their cut of the action on future remakes. Roger signing off on a crap game is not looking out for Williams or his best interests, or at least you could make the argument.

    Also, I'm assuming Williams gets a cut somehow, otherwise the game doesn't have their name on it, why would they care if it's any good?

    Just playing Devils Advocate.

    Quoted from cfh:

    Roger is the "license man" at Wms. He's looking at this from the perspective of how the remake qualifies with the Wms licensing. And he'll do whatever is good for Wms. He is their agent. He cashes their paychecks. He doesn't work for us. He works for Wms. So his approval vets on that, not if it's a "good" or "bad" game. He may say otherwise, but he's doing what's best for Wms (which isn't necessarily what's best for "us".)

    #191 5 years ago

    Tortelvis, if someone is going to the trouble to make remakes, they will be making (in house or outsourced) plastics, playfields, etc. Since Rick knows how to deal in parts and seems to be a sensible businessman, it would only make sense that he would also make replacement parts. So, I don't think availabity of parts will be an issue. If anything the remakes with have the added bonus of making more parts available. Perhaps Rick saw this as another opportunity to increase his revenues in this remake adventure.

    By all means there will be significant impact. However I won't be sitting around fretting over what the changes will be.

    #192 5 years ago
    Quoted from Tortelvis:

    Could that discourage future growth in other parts offerings in the future?

    Of course not. More games would only encourage more parts productions, not less.

    Quoted from caligirl:

    If anything the remakes with have the added bonus of making more parts available.

    Absolutely!!!

    #193 5 years ago
    Quoted from Tortelvis:

    This has got to effect sales of things like replacement decals, plastics, playfields, ramps, etc.

    This is very true.

    With the number of MM in the world about to double in the next year, the market for replacement parts will also expand.

    It may take a few years until the MMr need many new parts, but the smart guys will be investing in dragon wings right off the bat.

    #194 5 years ago

    Time to start making more pin footies, old man.

    I hear John Jundt has a Maverick that needs restoring if you'd like to start taking on Data East games ...

    #195 5 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    If I buy a MMr, it will be in "perfect" condition ( to most people).
    Money I might have spent on restoring a MM, can now be spent on restoring other titles that will never be remade.
    -
    Just like people said that MM would NEVER be remade, let's just revisit this thread in 2 years and see if HEP, NEO and I run out of work.
    I say we won't.
    -10/31/2013

    vid:
    I like how you left brYan out of that list. is mr.kelly leaving the restoration biz to get in on the ground floor making afgan's for pinball machines?

    #196 5 years ago
    Quoted from j_m_:

    vid:
    I like how you left brYan out of that list. is mr.kelly leaving the restoration biz to get in on the ground floor making afgan's for pinball machines?

    No slight intended.

    I only listed restorers that I knew were completely flooded with work.

    I have no knowledge of Mr. Kelly's current workload.

    #197 5 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    No slight intended.
    I only listed restorers that I knew were completely flooded with work.
    I have no knowledge of Mr. Kelly's current workload.

    Working full time on his flaming bomb/cheese pump prototype topper/coindoor dispenser.

    #198 5 years ago
    Quoted from tonymiddendorf:

    I hear John Jundt has a Maverick that needs restoring if you'd like to start taking on Data East games ...

    I'd rather take up knitting.

    #199 5 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    No slight intended.
    blockquote>

    None taken, Vid.

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