Cypress Gardens random tilt


By Pinbee

5 months ago


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  • Latest reply 3 months ago by baldtwit
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#1 5 months ago

This machine is from Vic's sell-a-thon a year ago, and has been playing fine until recently. Occasionally now, when three in a row is made with the first three balls, as the fourth ball leaves the shooter lane the tilt light comes on, and of course no credits score. Need a little guidance where to start looking. I have the schematic, but have spent almost no time inside a bingo.

#2 5 months ago

If you have credits on the machine, does it remove them when this happens? You can manually add credits to the replay register, then place the balls by hand.

If you don't have a winner on your first three balls, does it tilt immediately when the fifth ball leaves the shooter lane (if you make three in a row in the first four balls)?

I suspect that you may have a short in your scoring circuit - this is the area beside the search disc. But first, let me know the behaviors above and that'll help verify. If your credits do not roll off, then the anti-cheat is not disengaging, and you have something else going on (maybe a switch that's too close on the tilt trip relay, which should be near the selector lock - this relay trips when the fourth ball leaves).

Does it happen on any game, even if there is no winner?

Also: this is silly, but have you check the plumb bob tilt and slam tilts to ensure they are not super close? That's probably the easiest thing to check. Should be one on the back of the door, one on the bottom of the cab, and the plumb bob will either be on the left or right side, behind the lifter.

Basically, something's touching that shouldn't.

#3 5 months ago

Thanks for getting back.

Credits are subtracted on tilt.

If there's no winner on the first three balls, when three in a row is achieved , whether on the fourth, fifth, or extra ball, the tilt comes on as soon as the ball drops in the winning hole.

No tilt on a winless game.

The tilt bob and slam switches look ok.

Sometimes credits are awarded, but lost if a score is made say in another row. I haven't figured out if it's only tilting in certain color rows or involving certain numbers.

#4 5 months ago

You have a short in your 50v somewhere in your scoring circuit. Or a coil that's gone bad.

Do some tests and verify if it happens on certain colors.

That'll narrow down the possibilities.

#5 5 months ago

Ran a few more test games, and it tilts on all color lines. It doesn't seem to be awarding credits occasionally as it would do a couple of weeks ago. I've done all my testing with the numbers in home position, so will try a few more with numbers rotated.

#6 5 months ago

Well, at least it's consistent. It's only happening when scoring, so it is unlikely connected to the search relays.

Note that this problem will be a bit tricky to track down, so patience will be required. (Not that you haven't been patient thus far! Just note that this problem is not a quick fix.)

I would suggest trying the following first:

Examine the back of the selector lock relay - make sure there are no switch tabs touching, broken wires, etc. This is on the trip bank on the back door and is normally labeled. There are two stacks of switches and each switch must operate properly. If you have, for example, a single-pole double throw switch in there that connects the scoring circuit, and also disconnects it, that could cause the short. Your manual will have an explanation of every switch on the selector lock relay and what it does. Look at this and see if anything matches up kinda sorta with the behavior you're seeing and start there.

Then:

Examine the search index relay. This has a sand wound resistor that can sometimes fail open or come unsoldered. Normally, this doesn't send it to tilt, so check that area carefully. Be very careful not to poke those switches, they are quite delicate.

We basically have to isolate each 50V coil in the scoring system - which is all of the scoring coils Replay counter step ups, search index, search relays, and selector lock.

The selector lock is something I highly suspect as it happens right when the ball leaves the gate with a winner.

#7 5 months ago

Looked over everything you mentioned and nothing jumped out at me, but...while running some test games it finally dawned on me that if the coin door is open during a game, scoring and payout is normal. The only switch affected by the door position is a small single switch just above the lock. I clipped it closed to simulate the door closed position, and the tilt occurs when a score is made. Haven't tracked down the purpose of this switch, but it's looking like an "easy" fix.

#8 5 months ago

That switch simply turns on a lamp inside the coin door so you can easily check the meter numbers.

Buuuuut, if the coin door is open and doesn't cause a tilt, check for pulled or pinched wires, or at the coin door jones plug for maybe some wires touching.

The extra ball feature also is governed by the fourth ball being shot, so perhaps the issue lies there? Check the switches carefully behind the yellow button and follow the wires back over to the plug.

#9 5 months ago

Actually this switch is separate from the lamp switch, which is a button mounted in the cab. The one affecting the tilt is a leaf switch mounted on the door that makes (closes) when it contacts a plate next to the lamp switch button. I suspect it's an anti- cheat of some sort, except it's working in reverse.

#10 5 months ago

Hmm, sounds non-factory to me. Can you snap a pic?

#11 5 months ago

Here are the pics. The smaller switch on the left is the one in question (to its right is the yellow button switch stack). The other pic shows the strike plate for the switch and the cab lamp button below it.
Another behavior I noticed is that the main Tilt relay doesn't trip during this tilt event. In other words, the motors keep running, but the tilt light comes on and the credits zero out. I see an anti- cheat relay on the schematic, but haven't located it in the machine yet.

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#12 5 months ago

Ah, OK. That switch is a slam tilt. Can't remember if that should be no or NC. I'll take a look later today.

What's happening is that your 50v is sagging when something trips or tries to activate. This releases the anti-cheat, which acts as a kind of soft tilt or failsafe if 50v sags.

The anti-cheat is on the right side near the top behind the backglass.

But it is working properly. Your problem is one of the other solenoids.

Perhaps desolder one lead of the selector lock relay, then manually trip it with a wooden dowel or something and see if it scores...

#13 5 months ago

There are three selector locks, pre 4th ball, pre 5th and after 5th.
It'll be a couple of days before I can look into this , thanks for your guidance.

#14 5 months ago

You want the before 4th - it happens when the ball leaves the gate with a three in a line on the table.

No problem, no guarantee we've found it there.

#15 5 months ago

Sounds like anti cheat relay is falling out....

#16 5 months ago

Butch, yep, in my experience that happens with a short in the 50V. Any thoughts on this?

2 months later
#17 3 months ago

the switch on the left edge of the coin door in the above pic is the "front door switch" at schem A18.

there's also a back door switch that is closed by the lock bar on the back door, and both are in series to the meters mounted on the ball trough.

the idea is when either/both the doors are open, the meters won't change and screw up the accounting.

so, check the meter wiring on the meters and the plug connections from the cabinet to the head, and make sure the "spare" (cough) wires usually dangling around the coin trough aren't touching the metal cases of the meters.

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