Cyclone mystery wheel problem


By beauimpala

4 years ago


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  • 12 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 months ago by atariaction
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#1 4 years ago

The mystery wheel on my cyclone is not working properly. It has an error of 41 when you power up the game. The mystery wheel spins, but it can't figure out its location. Run it in test mode, and it spins fine, but can't locate home. Took it apart and replaced the opto with another opto I had laying around. Still no help. Does exact same thing. Anybody have any advice, or a possible spare part location. Thanks, Beau

#2 4 years ago

It's likely NOT the opto-- carefully check the shaft of the wheel (you may have to remove it). It's likely it's cracked and causing it to wobble- resulting in the error 41.

You really need to have a bright flashlight to inspect it if you don't remove it.

Be sure to mark the position you took it off at as it has a "home" position. If that's not right your awards won't line up with the wheel when you put it back.

Been there. Done that!..... good luck!

#3 4 years ago

Ok............I would say home position was lost by me. How do you know where home position is. I would have lost the home position when I took the mystery wheel off to soder on a new opto. It would seem to me that if the mystery wheel is tight on the shaft and there is no whobble and it spins perfectly fine and the back of the mystery wheel goes through the opto it would be able to locate a home position?

#4 4 years ago

I think the wobble mamemaster was referring to was if the wheel wasn't perfectly perpendicular to the shaft. If it wasn't, it's possible that when the wheel spins, the tab on the back of the wheel wouldn't go through the opto. Since you say yours is doing that, you'll need a systematic way to find the problem.

The mystery wheel opto on Cyclone is a unique switch in that it's the only switch in column 6 in the switch matrix. This means that the rest of the game can be working fine but if the mystery wheel isn't working, it could be any number of things.

First, isolate whether the problem is the mystery wheel board or the MPU. Remove connectors 1P8 and 1P10 from the MPU - these are the two connectors in the middle on the bottom of the board. Put the machine in switch edges test (07 in player 3 display.)

Connect a jumper wire from pin 9 on 1J10 (left-most pin on left header where you pulled the connector) to pin 7 on 1J8 (3rd pin in from the left on the right header where you pulled the connector.) This should trigger the home opto switch on the display (41.) If it does not, AND ALL OTHER SWITCHES in the game work, you have a bad column drive transistor Q47 on the MPU and it needs to be replaced. If 41 is triggered, the MPU is good and the problem is the mystery wheel board.

You should be able to manually trigger the opto with a piece of paper. Reconnect the connectors, get an 8" long piece of paper and fold it so it is stiff. You should be able to slip it behind the wheel, through the opto and trigger the switch open.

If you can't trigger the opto with a piece of paper and you are sure the opto is good, you need to check your 12v line going to the opto board. If you're not getting 12v, the opto won't work and the wheel won't spin properly.

Another way you can tell the opto isn't working is by running the mystery wheel test. As it spins, the P4 display shows an "H" on the left indicating the opto is interrupted and on the right a number that shows a count on the stepper wheel. For about half a rotation of the wheel, "H" will appear in the display, the other half it won't (the two blue 10Ks on the wheel are the dividing lines.) The number on the right should never go above 200. If you don't get an "H" for half a rotation, the number on the right can go up to 256. If it does, the opto isn't being tripped and the wheel will not work properly. If the wheel is installed properly on the shaft and the opto is working, it should index properly to stop on the appropriate values.

If you need pix of what it should look like let me know and I can snap some for you.

viperrwk

#5 4 years ago

Viper wrk. Tons of good info here. I will test out your theories and repost. Thanks a bunch.

#6 4 years ago

I tried your jumper trick. Disconnected J10 and J8. No trigger when I'm in testing switch edges. Went to pin 9 on J10 and pin 7 on J8. Now you say Q47 needs to be replaced? This is just a baby transistor............what I thought was just a pre-drive transistor. This only needs to be replaced to get the opto to work? I guess what I'm asking is, it's not one of the larger transistors like one of the tip102s is it? Just replace the 2N3904 transistor at Q47? Thanks, Beau

#7 4 years ago

Remember you're dealing with the switch matrix, not driving solenoids. The column transistors are listed in the switch matrix table as Q42-Q49. These are all 2N3904. If you change out Q47 the mystery wheel *might* work again, though you may still have a problem on the opto board. But if you don't change it out, it definitely won't work, and you won't be able to further diagnose if there are opto board problems.

viperrwk

#8 4 years ago

Before you go doing any board work, replace the connectors from the opto board to the mpu. It's a quick and easy way to eliminate bad IDC connectors. My Cyclone had a similar problem and connectors fixed it. Just a suggestion. Sounds like you're further down another path, but thought I'd throw my 2c in.

Chris

1 week later
#9 4 years ago

Viperwrrk had the solution. Finally got to replacing the transistor at Q47 today. Wouldn't you know it the opto now works and tests perfect in switch test. Thanks so much for your very helpful information. There were also some slightly discolered/burnt resistors around Q47. I replaced those too while I was at it. Couldn't be happier. Now if somebody would make a comet ramp I'd have a pretty nice Cyclone. Thanks again.

#10 4 years ago

Glad you got it working.

Hopefully James will have more Comet ramps soon. If he does don't hesitate just buy it otherwise you might miss out.

viperrwk

4 years later
#11 3 months ago
Quoted from viperrwk:

I think the wobble mamemaster was referring to was if the wheel wasn't perfectly perpendicular to the shaft. If it wasn't, it's possible that when the wheel spins, the tab on the back of the wheel wouldn't go through the opto. Since you say yours is doing that, you'll need a systematic way to find the problem.
The mystery wheel opto on Cyclone is a unique switch in that it's the only switch in column 6 in the switch matrix. This means that the rest of the game can be working fine but if the mystery wheel isn't working, it could be any number of things.
First, isolate whether the problem is the mystery wheel board or the MPU. Remove connectors 1P8 and 1P10 from the MPU - these are the two connectors in the middle on the bottom of the board. Put the machine in switch edges test (07 in player 3 display.)
Connect a jumper wire from pin 9 on 1J10 (left-most pin on left header where you pulled the connector) to pin 7 on 1J8 (3rd pin in from the left on the right header where you pulled the connector.) This should trigger the home opto switch on the display (41.) If it does not, AND ALL OTHER SWITCHES in the game work, you have a bad column drive transistor Q47 on the MPU and it needs to be replaced. If 41 is triggered, the MPU is good and the problem is the mystery wheel board.
You should be able to manually trigger the opto with a piece of paper. Reconnect the connectors, get an 8" long piece of paper and fold it so it is stiff. You should be able to slip it behind the wheel, through the opto and trigger the switch open.
If you can't trigger the opto with a piece of paper and you are sure the opto is good, you need to check your 12v line going to the opto board. If you're not getting 12v, the opto won't work and the wheel won't spin properly.
Another way you can tell the opto isn't working is by running the mystery wheel test. As it spins, the P4 display shows an "H" on the left indicating the opto is interrupted and on the right a number that shows a count on the stepper wheel. For about half a rotation of the wheel, "H" will appear in the display, the other half it won't (the two blue 10Ks on the wheel are the dividing lines.) The number on the right should never go above 200. If you don't get an "H" for half a rotation, the number on the right can go up to 256. If it does, the opto isn't being tripped and the wheel will not work properly. If the wheel is installed properly on the shaft and the opto is working, it should index properly to stop on the appropriate values.
If you need pix of what it should look like let me know and I can snap some for you.
viperrwk

Hey Viper. You still out there? Or anyone that can help?

My Cyclone mystery wheel was working. Then I tore it down and shopped it. Now then wheel does not spin anymore.

Wheel does not spin in gameplay or in wheel test

I did the mpu jumper test (row to column) and the wheel opto registered fine so not a board problem.

I cant trigger the wheel opto in switch test with the wheel itself or manually (with a long zip tie).

Voltages on the wheel board:

wht/brn 4.8v
key
grn/blu 4.7v
brn/grn12v
brn/blu 12v
gry/yel 12.2v
blk 11.6v

In wheel test H is displayed in player 4 display no matter the position of the wheel when i move it manually (viper suggests this means the opto is interrupted) and the number 256 is also shown (which viper suggests means that the opto is not being tripped) so that confuses me lol

Any thoughts?

20170519_150819 (resized).jpg

#12 3 months ago
Quoted from atariaction:

Hey Viper. You still out there? Or anyone that can help?
My Cyclone mystery wheel was working. Then I tore it down and shopped it. Now then wheel does not spin anymore.
Wheel does not spin in gameplay or in wheel test
I did the mpu jumper test (row to column) and the wheel opto registered fine so not a board problem.
I cant trigger the wheel opto in switch test with the wheel itself or manually (with a long zip tie).
Voltages on the wheel board:
wht/brn 4.8v
key
grn/blu 4.7v
brn/grn12v
brn/blu 12v
gry/yel 12.2v
blk 11.6v
In wheel test H is displayed in player 4 display no matter the position of the wheel when i move it manually (viper suggests this means the opto is interrupted) and the number 256 is also shown (which viper suggests means that the opto is not being tripped) so that confuses me lol
Any thoughts?

I reflowed the headers on the power supply and the wheel now works.

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