(Topic ID: 265244)

Cyclone kickers gone wild!


By Hapidance

64 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 91 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 21 hours ago by Hapidance
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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There are 91 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 51 days ago
Quoted from Hapidance:

Do you need to remove the transistor and diode to test?

No you can test these on the board.

Quoted from Hapidance:

Should I try cleaning the opto better?

No, they are not that sensitive to dirt.

Quoted from Hapidance:

When I jumped pins 4 & 5 on the board and the cpu read the switch on the test.

Good, then the issue is the board. If you have 12 volts on pin 1 and 3, if it was me I would replace Q-1 and D-1 as they are only .50 cents for both and I have them on hand. You do what you feel comfortable with.

#52 50 days ago

grumpy
First and foremost if you celebrate, happy Easter.
Also hope that you and yours are all healthy and safe.

I’ll replace a .50 part to save $30 in a heartbeat. At least I’ll try!

I checked the operational and parts manuals. I didn’t see the drop target schematic you posted. Where do I find it?
Not sure how much help it really is ;I need to learn how to read them...
I unfortunately need “ reading schematics for dummies along with “ circuit board testing for dummies”

I don’t know what I’m doing but this is what.
I set the DMM to test continuity.
I readings for all but 1.
The arrow below is pointing to it.
Is this what you were thinking the problem is?

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#53 50 days ago
Quoted from Hapidance:

I don’t know what I’m doing but this is what.

You can look up on Utube the testing procedures for a diode and transistor.

Quoted from Hapidance:

The arrow below is pointing to it.
Is this what you were thinking the problem is?

That is a resistor.

Here is the diode and transistor.

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#54 50 days ago

If I did it right...
Starting the bottom diode you pointed out with the blue arrow I get 658
Middle 867
And top 813

The transistor :
The middle being ground 855 & 866

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#55 50 days ago

The left blue arrow is the diode, you can read the label on it 1n4148. Test it like the first pic.

The right arrow is the transistor, use the bottom pic to test.

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#56 49 days ago

grumpy
After two videos and your diagram (thanks for that; makes it ez)
Tested the diode. I get a drop to 664 and no flow the other direction.
It works . Although even a magnifying glass I couldn’t read the number on the diode.

I tested the transistor.
It also works. (What’s the gab of silicone for)?
Just like in the diagram.

#57 49 days ago
Quoted from Hapidance:

(What’s the gab of silicone for)?

This keeps it in place instead of vibrating which would break off the leads very quickly.

This only leaves the opto sensor bad.

#58 49 days ago

Thanks again
Mostly for the lessons!
I know how to test a :
fuse
Diode
Transistor (both types)
I have a much better understanding of the switches.
How am opto switch works...

All that board does is tell the cpu what position the target is in then the CPU decides what action to take next ?

I should order the part from Marco, solder it in place, plug in the board and run the switch test see if it works and if it does Reassemble it?

#59 49 days ago
Quoted from Hapidance:

I should order the part from Marco, solder it in place, plug in the board and run the switch test see if it works and if it does Reassemble it?

Yep, or just buy the new board and plug it in.

Now onto the Mystery Wheel issues.

#60 49 days ago

This connector is the power in and the switches out, for the wheel. Check the grey/yellow to the black wire for 12 volts.

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#61 49 days ago

Here is a diagram for the mystery wheel.

You see that the opto circuit at the top is exactly like the drop target you just tested.

The circuit at the bottom is a stepper motor drive circuit.

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#62 48 days ago

grumpy
AWSOME.
First order of business tonight ..
Check voltage for 12v
Then
I suppose remove the mystery wheel assembly and start with cleaning the opto see if that helps.

Then move onto testing the board.

I Searched other mystery wheel issues I’m hoping a little cleaning will make for a quick fix. ( I’m never that lucky )

I’m also holding off ordering the out hole Incase I need more parts.

I’ll report my findings.
Thanks.

#63 48 days ago
Quoted from Hapidance:

Check voltage for 12v
Then
I suppose remove the mystery wheel assembly and start with cleaning the opto see if that helps.

Yep then spin the the wheel to see if the motor turns easy. Since this is a stepper motor it will feel notchy as you turn it but that is fine.

In switch test you can jumper pins 1 and 3. It should show up on the display if all the wiring is good.

#64 48 days ago

grumpy
This is a little odd.
If I test the connector I get 12v
If I test the pins from the front side of the wheel I get 9V.
Maybe take off the board and inspect the solder closer?

#65 45 days ago

Hey hapidance sorry I haven’t checked in been pretty busy. I see you’ve gotten along quite well and was wondering how close you were on this.

#66 45 days ago

jmckune
So far I think the optic sensor is Bad.
I can get one for about $6. If I can replace it myself I’ll be thrilled at a $6 repair .
But I’m waiting Incase I need more stuff for the mystery wheel. Also changed the ghost decal. Big improvement!

I haven’t had time to go any further.

I need to take the assembly off and check the solder. I get 12v at the connector. But if I test the pins from the wheel side I get 9V.
So I’m thinking maybe a bad connection.
No doubt it really needs to be cleaned.
I’m hoping for an inexpensive fix
The good is, it plays well except for the drop target and the mystery wheel spinning. Last this is to make a new connector for the GI relay in the head.
Then I can work on......

#67 45 days ago

That does sound like a bad connection. Should be a relatively simple fix! Good to see how far it’s come since you first got it!

#68 45 days ago

jmckune

After I bought it and then later learning about pinside, I found the pin I bought in the archive .

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/archive/68357#ctop

So the guy I bought it from must of gotten it from the guy in colts neck.
Naturally paid too much.

#69 44 days ago

grumpy
The opto switch registers when jumped.
I didn’t see my previous post just the ugly pics.

I have no idea where to start. Looks like there’s been several repairs.
The motor manually spins fine.
When in test it wiggles like it wants to start but doesn't have the oomph to spin.
Then the usual error message.

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#70 44 days ago

That 7805 is a voltage regulator and looks like it has burned all to hell and back. Check the voltage (ground on middle pin, input voltage on pin 1 (left) and output should be 5V on pin 3(right.)). Start there, if it’s not providing the right output voltage under load nothing else will work right.

#71 44 days ago

All the resistors on that board look really toasted, as well. I don't usually recommend shotgunning every component.... but in this case..... I think I'd shotgun every component. How did that strange corrosion get up there as well? Looks like rust in a couple places.

Anyone make a replacement board for that?

#72 44 days ago

If I was going to guess, I’d say that at some point the board took excessive incoming voltage from the upstream power supply and toasted the components in the line of Fire. You may not need to shotgun everything, but start with the regulator, and possibly the obviously overheated resistors and/or caps that share that power rail. If it still doesn’t look better after that, work your way downstream from the regulator as those transistors and diodes it powers may not have liked it either.

In any event, check the input and output voltage on the regulator first to verify the theory that it’s toast.

#73 44 days ago

One more thing: looks like the output of the 7805 is not going to be 5V but rather 8.8 according to the schematic, because the common pin (middle) seems to biased up from the usual 0V by the 10K resistor and the 3.9V Zener diode, R9 and Z1. Kinda makes you wonder why they didn’t just use a different regulator...

#74 44 days ago
Quoted from GeminiGuy:

One more thing: looks like the output of the 7805 is not going to be 5V but rather 8.8 according to the schematic, because the common pin (middle) seems to biased up from the usual 0V by the 10K resistor and the 3.9V Zener diode, R9 and Z1. Kinda makes you wonder why they didn’t just use a different regulator...

They had tons of 7805's around? (Why not use a 7812 and step it down??)

I'd really like to have been in on some of the planning/engineering meetings way back when - (We have a million 7805's!!! Use them up!!!)

#75 44 days ago

You can’t feed a 7812 with 12V. The old linear regulators have a minimum drop from in to out of at least a couple volts. But yes, buying in bulk and reusing parts from elsewhere in the BOM saves a bunch of money, as it usually does.

#76 44 days ago
Quoted from Hapidance:

I have no idea where to start

Like others said, check the output of the regulator chip. Then test all the diodes, resistors and transistors. I would clean the board very good so I can see the traces better. Some of the past repairs maybe the issue now.

#77 44 days ago

grumpy

I tested the 7805. Black from my DMM on the center.
I get 4.8 red arrow and 5.9 yellow arrow.
If that’s way not rite please let me know.

geminiguy

Quoted from GeminiGuy:

One more thing: looks like the output of the 7805 is not going to be 5V but rather 8.8 according to the schematic, because the common pin (middle) seems to biased up from the usual 0V by the 10K resistor and the 3.9V Zener diode, R9 and Z1. Kinda makes you wonder why they didn’t just use a different regulator...

I just learned how to test a diode...I’m up for learning as much as I can, but what you just said...way out of my league lol.
I’ll move on and start with R10-R12

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#78 44 days ago

Btw..
The rust is from the mounting screws. How they got rusty is a mystery.
I found a board motor and harness for $99 birthday list ?

https://www.pinballlife.com/williamsbally-stepper-board-with-stepper-motor-and-harness.html

#79 44 days ago

It depends on how much work you like to do/if you're cheap. For instance, on Doctor Who, I was fooling around with jumpers etc. on the mini playfield opto boards for years and a warped carrier, luckily someone made replacement boards, and the carrier was still available NOS at marcospec at the time, so I just replaced the whole thing.

The only advantage is that I became a real expert at getting the mini playfield in and out of the machine because I had it in and out of it at least 50 times.

#80 44 days ago

That regulator may be questionable, but we should recheck against a real ground: Because the middle pin is not actually at ground, move the black lead to a solid ground and see if you get closer to 12 at the yellow arrow, and around 3.9 at the middle pin if the resistor and the zener are OK. If the yellow pin is nowhere near 12, then there’s an input voltage problem. If you move the black lead to a real ground point, the red arrow should read within 10% of 8.8V. If any of those voltages are more than about 10% off, consider changing the regulator, and also the Zener and the resistor if the middle pin voltage is not near to 3.9V.

#81 44 days ago

geminiguy so far...
11.8v at the yellow arrow
10.8 At the red
5.9 in the middle.

#82 44 days ago

I’d change the regulator and the Zener. (Zener polarity is important- get the stripe at the correct end if you replace it.). Measure the resistor across its leads in ohms mode and it should be 10K(ish). If not, replace that too. Voltage is definitely too high at the regulator output.

Might as well get a clean screw to hold the new regulator to the heatsink, and put a little thermal grease between the underside of the 7805 and the heatsink so it conducts heat well. Easiest way to desolder the reg will be to clip the leads, take the part off, then unsolder and pull the remnants of the legs one at a time.

#83 44 days ago

Some of these diodes are shot.

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#84 44 days ago

I hope you get that board fixed up before it's birthday on Monday.

#85 43 days ago

Sadly,
I don't believe this board will ever see its 32nd birthday.
Too many issues, age and the number of replacement parts along with the lack of skill and knowledge to resolve them all.

Anyway to test the motor ?

If It’s ok and I can save $34 .

I saw the board, motor and connector for $99. Thinking it’s goin in my birthday list.

1 month later
#86 10 days ago

grumpy
I broke down and bought a new board and motor for the mystery wheel and I’m starting to think the old board and motor are good.
With the new board and motor when I put it in test, the wheel doesn’t spin.
It rumbles like it wants to turn but doesn’t have enough umph to turn.
It’s as if it isn’t getting enough power

Any suggestions?

#87 10 days ago

With the new board installed connect voltmeter leads to plug 1 pins 6 and 7. Should have 12 volts DC. While connected to the voltmeter run the motor test. What do you read on the meter now?

#88 10 days ago

grumpy
Thanks for the quick reply!
I lent out my DMM
Just got back from Home depot
Naturally they only had the $100 ones .
With that said, I need to wait till after the weekend to get my meter back.
Amazon might be quicker for $20

1 week later
#89 1 day ago

grumpy
Got my DMM

Pin 1 =9.5v
Pin3=9.2
Pin 4=23.5
Pin5=0
Pin 6=25v
Pin 7=0

When in test...
Pin 1 9.4
Pin 3 8
Pin 4 12
Pin 5 11
Pin 6 25
Pin7 9
The connector is kind of crappy on pin 7
I’ll make a new one soon as my crimper comes in.

I’m test mode boy it jumps like it really wants to spin but can’t .

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#90 1 day ago

This wire is grey/yellow, it should be 12 volts.

This should always be zero volts.

#91 21 hours ago

grumpy

It’s strange that I’m getting the 24v readings. What would cause that?
I’ll retest
Starting to think the connector is bad.
I ordered a new crimper

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