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(Topic ID: 275135)

Cyclone Jackpot Lights always on


By davidz121

73 days ago



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  • 18 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 70 days ago by davidz121
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#1 73 days ago

I have a Cyclone and the Jackpot lights in the back glass are always on. Looks like the current jackpot level flashes, but the others are still either on or twinkling.

Seem to all test fine, but i believe that the lights above the jackpot level are supposed to be off during game play.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

#2 73 days ago

Check driver Transistor Q33.

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#3 73 days ago

So looking further, the lamp test does show some issues. If I test lamp 41, 33,49 and 57 all come on together and they shouldn't. They are all in the same row of the lamp matrix, but it seems every row on the right side of the matrix is this way.

Am I looking for a wiring issue, or a componet(s) issue?

#4 73 days ago
Quoted from davidz121:

So looking further, the lamp test does show some issues. If I test lamp 41, 33,49 and 57 all come on together and they shouldn't. They are all in the same row of the lamp matrix, but it seems every row on the right side of the matrix is this way.
Am I looking for a wiring issue, or a componet(s) issue?

Check connector IJ-7 for alkaline damage. If you pull that connector and the other lamp matrix connector at IJ-6 you can test them using jumpers. If you still get multiple lamps lighting up you’ve narrowed the issue down to a board problem.

If you’re not sure about alkaline issues try posting some well lit, focused photos here. Especially near and below where the batteries are located.

If alkaline remediation is needed chrishibler and borygard are both excellent choices.

#5 73 days ago

Board had the batteries removed before any damage occurred I believe. But I’ll check that and try the jumpers.

Really appreciate your help.

DavidZ.

#6 73 days ago

Sorry for being a newbie, but I see those connectors on the board but where do I jumper them to?

I’m assuming one row pin and one column pin.

#7 73 days ago
Quoted from davidz121:

I see those connectors on the board but where do I jumper them to?

Good test procedure here: https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_9_-_11#Lamp_Matrix_Row_and_Column_Testing

Also, welcome to Pinside!

#8 72 days ago

Looking at the schematics, I see that Q58, Q56, Q54 and Q52 (all the troubled ones) are all controlled by U52. It says it's a 7408, but does anyone have a complete part number?

Haven't a chance to do the testing yet, but that looks like a possibility.

#9 72 days ago

If you search for 7408 at Great Plains Electronics https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/search.asp several results come up. Ed posts here as g-p-e and can suggest what might work if you decide to replace it.

#10 72 days ago

So here is what I've found:

Looking at the schematics, the tip42's with the troubled lights are Q52, Q54, Q56 and Q58. None of the other lights have issues. I tested those with a voltmeter and they do not appear shorted, or test any differently than any of the others - i wasn't expecting them to.

Looking at the schematics this afternoon before I got home, I was expecting it to be the 7408 (U52) or the PIA (U54). However, after getting some readings with a logic probe once I got home, either this doesn't work like I think it does, or i'm really confused or both.

With the machine on single lamp test on lamp #33, the reading off the PIA on Pins 14-17 (which feed the 7408) were all H/L, was expecting pin 14 to be High or at least different somehow as it's the only 1 of the 4 that should be 'on'.

On the 7408,

Gate 1 (feeding TIP42 - Q58) with pins 1,2 and 3 - the readings were 1-H/L, 2-High and 3-Low - this seemed ok.
Gate 2 (feeding TIP42 - Q56) with pins 4,5 and 6 - the readings were 4-H/L, 5-High and 6-Low - this doesn't seem right as this shouldn't be energized or at least different that above which should be.
Gate 3 (feeding TIP42 - Q54) with pins 12, 13 and 11 - the reading were 12-High, 13-H/L and 11-Low - Different than two above, but still shouldn't be energized.
Gate 4 (feeding (TIP42 - Q52 with pins 9, 10 and 8 - the reading were 9-High, 10-High and 8 - Low - Different still for them 3 above, still should not be energized.

Dont want to just randomly be replacing things, but really confused at what this is telling me.

Any help is much appreciated.

#11 72 days ago

I posted some pics. Doesn’t appear to be any battery damage, and they have been removed from the board.

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#12 72 days ago

Are lamps 1, 9, 17, and 25 also lighting when you test lamp 41?
What happens when you test lamp 33 by itself?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact ... for board repairs
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#13 71 days ago

Nope. Just 33 49 and 57 light when I test 41. If I were to test 33, the other three light up too.

If I test any light in the right 4 columns, the other 3 In that row come on too. The lights in the left 4 columns are fine.

My guess is it’s the 7408 at U52, but the reading I got above are confusing.

#14 71 days ago

So it looks like I should have taken YeOldPinPlayer's from the start. I finally got around to doing the jumper test, and it's not the board. With a lamp and a jumper on row 1, column 5 lights but 6, 7, and 8 do not. However with the connectors plugged in they do.

The good news is it's not the board, the bad news is that it seems to be wiring. Can anyone with experience in this think of something i should look for that would cause the right 4 lamps in each row of the lamp matrix to all work together? Looks like i'm in for some fun with the schematics and a multimeter.

Thanks for your help YeOldPinPlayer and ChrisHibler.

#15 71 days ago

A bright light and visual inspection is your next step.

Assuming the problem just started, then It is way more likely that socket tabs or diode leg are touching something it should not. Perhaps the row wire is shorted to something.

Please take a pic of what you find. These are always fun.


Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
Http://chrishiblerpinball.com/contact
http://www.PinWiki.com/ - The new place for pinball repair info

#16 71 days ago

I just got the machine so I’m not sure how lone it’s been like this, bulbs have all been replaced with LED’s so maybe when they did that.

I’ll poke around on it......

Chris - would you assume it’s near the effected lights or could it be anywhere?

#17 71 days ago

Raise the playfield vertical and check those four light sockets. You’ll find it.

I think you’re having multiple issues. The jackpot light isn’t part of the lamp matrix. It has different wires than the lamp matrix.

Row one of the lamp matrix should be a red-brown wire (IJ-6, pin 1). Check all of those lamp sockets for a short.

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#18 70 days ago

The jackpot lights I’m referring to are all the ones in column 8.

Every row is like this: If I test any light in the right 4 columns, the other three from columns 5-8 in that same row only light up. The 4 in columns 1-4 don’t light up, just columns 5-8, and just the one row I’m testing.

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