(Topic ID: 242501)

Cyclone face lift Help

By Hapidance

4 years ago


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  • 43 posts
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  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Hapidance
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#1 4 years ago

I must preempt this by saying this is the best informational community I’ve ever been a part of.
Thank you all good members!
I have begun making improvements to my recently purchased Cyclone.
I ordered and received a new cyclone ramp.
Since things are already apart I decided to make some upgrades .

I’m having difficulty in selecting LEDs.
1st Q - im looking at ablaze premium ghost busting clear dome 1-SMD LEDs To light the
20 30 40 60 80 million.
Are they bright enough ?
Any suggestions?

I’m ordering rite caps EVO pop bumper lites. Not sure if I should get colored LEDs along with the marching colored bumper caps.
Any opinion?

Next, I’m looking for a new sticker
“Ride The Cyclone three times for jackpot “
as you can see mine has a bad wrinkle in it.

Now I’m taking apart anything I can polish and ordering new shiny screws.
Am I going overboard?

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#2 4 years ago

There is no chance you can go overboard here.

Have fun with it!

#3 4 years ago

One thing seems to lead to another..
While waiting on parts I keep seeing something else I can take apart and polish.

Not to mention the million or so stupid questions I have.

I read a post about the blue skill ramp repair (can’t find it again ) . He used sail blue Krylon paint on it. Does that really work well?
How does it ware?
Do you clear coat it? If so With what ?
Mine has two broken tabs but I was able to pick one up with no breaks. Problem is the blue is discolored but otherwise perfect. If I really could paint it , it would look like new.
I suppose I’m mostly concerned with screwing up real bad or making expensive mistakes.
Like you said , it’s supposed to be fun.

#4 4 years ago

Those 1SMD LEDs will be plenty bright. On Cyclone especially due to its great light show, I tried to use LEDs as sparingly as possible. Colored incandescents look great when used in the Mystery Wheel in the backbox. Just enough color but you still retain that slow decay from the lamps. I believe you could use a LED-OCD board to retain the effects if you wanted to go full LED.

You might be able to use a little heat to smooth that decal out, possibly re-affix with some 3M spray adhesive.

#5 4 years ago

I was super lucky and just found a NOS skill ramp for my restore.

#6 4 years ago
Quoted from Xenon75:

Those 1SMD LEDs will be plenty bright. On Cyclone especially due to its great light show, I tried to use LEDs as sparingly as possible. Colored incandescents look great when used in the Mystery Wheel in the backbox. Just enough color but you still retain that slow decay from the lamps. I believe you could use a LED-OCD board to retain the effects if you wanted to go full LED.
You might be able to use a little heat to smooth that decal out, possibly re-affix with some 3M spray adhesive.

Quoted from Xenon75:

Those 1SMD LEDs will be plenty bright. On Cyclone especially due to its great light show, I tried to use LEDs as sparingly as possible. Colored incandescents look great when used in the Mystery Wheel in the backbox. Just enough color but you still retain that slow decay from the lamps. I believe you could use a LED-OCD board to retain the effects if you wanted to go full LED.
You might be able to use a little heat to smooth that decal out, possibly re-affix with some 3M spray adhesive.

#7 4 years ago

I was originally going to go with colored incandescent lights for the mystery wheel. Now I’m circling back to them.
Didn’t know I’ll need to add a board I. Order for them to work properly.
Uggg.

#8 4 years ago

They will work - but they turn on and off very quickly and to some people it is too jarring. It really depends on the game for me. Some games look great with the quick on/off of a LED, others lend themselves to the slower fade of an incandescent bulb. You can always experiment and see what looks best to you.

#9 4 years ago
Quoted from Xenon75:

I was super lucky and just found a NOS skill ramp for my restore.

I bought brand new ramps for mine, someone was reproducing them. I don't think however, that the plastic "topper" or decal that goes on it were produced (at least I couldn't find them).

#10 4 years ago
Quoted from Hapidance:

Now I’m taking apart anything I can polish and ordering new shiny screws.
Am I going overboard?

The easy answer is it depends on your own criteria.
Tho, my personal answer would be no... until you run out of cash for new parts or time for polishing or even of fun.
I do consider the fun factor in because the idea behind that is that I don't want to turn my hobby into a chore. Been there, done that.
I know it's more efficient and seems better to do it all at one time, but it may not be the best idea when it's the first time you are doing this. Again, been there, done that.

Your first project pin is not about making something perfect, it's about learning and making mistakes (and you can bet on my words that you'll mess up at least once). Go slowly, from issue to issue or assembly to assembly, take the time to gather info (and second proof that info!), to learn how to use the tools right, know which one is best suited and to know when it's better to let the job to someone else. Aka, don't test your soldering skills for the first time on the power supply board Again and sadly, been there, done that.

About sanding/polishing, if you are still learning, take a look at PinballMikeD tutorial on youtube and try your hands on a part or two that are intricate enough and aren't visible during gameplay like slingshot brackets. When you think you've got it, sand and polish the ball guide and parts that are visible. It's only after those are done that you may be able to consider doing the same treatment to the rest of the hidden parts unless they were really rusted up.

Heres a small list of what should be considered ordering and a few tips:
-Order anything that is to be scrapped and a few spare of what could be stripped easily like philips head screw, nylon locking nut, ect, plus at least 4 or up to 10% more than what you need hardware wise for spare.
-If you want to replace one or a few of those on the top of the playfield, you'll may want to consider replacing them all with clean new ones: white nylon nut, faded or cracked star post (especially blue ones, new and old red ones are more difficult to distinguish from one another), faded or cracked bumper body and base at the same time, faded bumper skirt, faded or cracked flipper bat.
-Order a new set of rubber (even if you are not replacing them all, you'll be glad you picked up a whole set)
-Don't reinstall old coils tubing.
-Don't reinstall old tee nut.
-Spare bumper cap (at least one even if you are not replacing them)
-Spare target sticker

Quoted from Hapidance:

Next, I’m looking for a new sticker
“Ride The Cyclone three times for jackpot “
as you can see mine has a bad wrinkle in it.

I wouldn't bother for that sticker, but if I was to do something to it, I would leave it like that until I'm sure I've got a way to get a new one if I messed the original by trying to move it with some heat. Whether its because I've gain the skills and the know-how to make a new one myself or because I've sourced it from someone else (repro or not).

#11 4 years ago
Quoted from Hapidance:

One thing seems to lead to another..
I read a post about the blue skill ramp repair (can’t find it again ) . He used sail blue Krylon paint on it. Does that really work well?
How does it ware?
Do you clear coat it? If so With what ?
Mine has two broken tabs but I was able to pick one up with no breaks. Problem is the blue is discolored but otherwise perfect. If I really could paint it , it would look like new.
I suppose I’m mostly concerned with screwing up real bad or making expensive mistakes.
Like you said , it’s supposed to be fun.

I wouldn't consider doing something to that ramp unless I got a spare one (just like the warped sticker), from what I know no one is making repro of them or even planning doing so since it's a part that doesn't seem prone to breaking/cracking.
Sanding and flame polish is an idea but an open flame is dangerous for the part or yourself if not done properly.

But I've tried another method than the flame one.
This is what I've tried back when I've took my cyclone apart for the first time:
*Always sand each step in the same direction.
-I've first rough sanded along the ramp a portion of the bottom of my skill shot ramp until I saw bits of the original color.
-Then I've stepped sanded it in order to just sand the yellowed thickness.
-The finishing sanding steps were to prep the ramp for conventional polishing, I sanded the test surface until it was smooth, flat and, most importantly, that no yellowed blue was left.
-Degreased and cleaned the ramps with some dawn soap and let it dried.
-I've bought a new cotton wheel just for that to make sure that I didn't mess up the surface with metal residue and used blue polishing compound (don't know if an higher grade compound would be better but that's what I had).
-Finally, I've lightly polished the ramp surface that I've prepped, don't push hard on the ramp or you'll make some burn mark. Overall, it worked fine and does the job so I've tried elsewhere but....
1. working along a straight surface is easy, when you come by the holes where the ball drop, it's hard to get a consistent sanding on the overall and adjacent surfaces.
2. When polishing corners or hard to reach places, I've found that burn marks from the polishing were more frequent.
3. Because of the uneven sanding, some spots would appear more wavy than other only after the polishing.
4. Expect that the edge of the ramps will get rounder after the sanding and polishing process.
5. Depending on the state of your ramps, this may not be feasible as the yellowing might be too intense and is going through the whole thickness of the ramp.

Don't know If I've prepped those test surfaces, but I've also tried heat polishing in hard to reach spots of the ramp with my heat gun (slower than flame polish but more controllable) at the lowest temperature which worked remarkably well.
But by doing that you must be careful to not get too close to the ramp or go too slow and create a hot spot. This could result into some melting of the surface and will create the opposite finish you wanted, it could also warp your ramp or worst could leave a spot more than well cooked.

I've also hear about people putting some ramps into the oven to polish them. I think it was only for opaque ramp but I might be completely wrong, I don't know much about it.
Technically, this process would give you a more even polishing all around considering that the whole atmosphere surrounding the ramps is roughly at the same temperature, but you would need to keep an eye on it since the time it stays inside the oven is most probably crucial to the finish.
If your wife or someone else asks you what you are doing, you could say that you are baking some very special cookies. Unless that someone is a police officer, then you might want to explain a bit more.

#12 4 years ago

WOW!
That sounds like an incredible process to get the blue color back.

Thank you for sharing that.
Although I’m suddenly thinking my freshly tumbled and hand polished posts are could use another going over.

I already had to explain I’m cooking a plastic in the oven to try and get a wrinkle out. My wife didn’t ask any questions; she already thinks I’m crazy.

#13 4 years ago

Good luck restoring your cyclone!! I'm getting ready to do the same thing. Love this game and want it to sparkle!!

#14 4 years ago

Please post updates.
I’d love to see the progress !

#15 4 years ago

I’m in the process of changing out the old busted up ramp. When I pulled of the old ramp this hideous thing appeared.
I don’t think I’ll be needing that anymore.

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#16 4 years ago

Playfield seems a bit dirty, take the time to vaccum most of that grim and use a clean rag to remove the rest when the playfield will be mostly empty, your skin and nose will appreciate. Tho, be sure to use the right cleaner and use it sparingly on a playfield so that it doesn't plank. Novus 1 does the job well.

Quoted from Hapidance:

When I pulled of the old ramp this hideous thing appeared.

That's weird, never seen that before.
It doesn't seems like it, but be careful to no damage the playfield if what looks like a foam pad is glued. A credit card or something similar + some rubbing alcool and flour should do the trick to remove any glue residue (look at vid's guide about playfield restoration where he explains how to remove milar, this should give you a good idea on how to clean that properly before attempting something).
What's for sure is that you'll have holes where those two screws are.

I'm thinking that this was used because the ramp was to low so it was obstructing something?
Or maybe the ramp didn't want to sit flush and when the ball was going thru so it would knock on the playfield?
I'm intrigued...
Could you show us more of that ramp when it was instaled and more of the playfield?

#17 4 years ago

Not a competition by any means, but how bad does your ramp looks like?
Mine looked like that and I'm surprised that my playfield survived to a rusted ball full of dents from hitting the "repaired" entrance of the ramp.

My busted cyclone ramp (resized).jpegMy busted cyclone ramp (resized).jpeg
#18 4 years ago

I won’t be able to post some old ramp pics till Sunday but I think my ramp is crappier.
I’m thinking the black wedge supported the busted up bottom of the old ramp.

I’ll also post some pictures of the play field. All I was planning on doing was
Replace the ramp and a few LEDs & a clean where I can.
Funny how one thing leads to another.

I saw what looked like Sheetrock screws coming through the bottom of the playfield and thought to myself
“ that don’t look rite”

#19 4 years ago

I resemble that remark. Got me excited to go find photos from my restoration. Not documented that well, didn't find the ones of the finished/stenciled cabinet but needless to say that was a lot of work.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/T78wRXYH6nqXGDkF6

#20 4 years ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

I resemble that remark. Got me excited to go find photos from my restoration. Not documented that well, didn't find the ones of the finished/stenciled cabinet but needless to say that was a lot of work.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/T78wRXYH6nqXGDkF6

Great pics... you should've been helping with the xmas tree, though.

#21 4 years ago
Quoted from metalkatt:

Great pics... you should've been helping with the xmas tree, though.

LOL! Hilarious, didn't know those were in there. I think it should have been them helping me with the pinball, but we all have our priorities.

#22 4 years ago
Quoted from Houkaka:

Not a competition by any means, but how bad does your ramp looks like?
Mine looked like that and I'm surprised that my playfield survived to a rusted ball full of dents from hitting the "repaired" entrance of the ramp.
[quoted image]

I’ll take Bette pictures tomorrow but I posted two I have.
The first picture is how gross it originally looked. The posts were horrific.
The next one was after a tiny clean up.
You can see where the ramp is cracked straight across.
I guess the black wedge was keeping the ramp from collapsing.

On another note, and please excuse the stupid questions,
How do you unscrew the round posts? They just seem to spin freely...
Also, can you recommend any “ must have” tools to have to make my life easier ?

Thanks!

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#23 4 years ago
Quoted from Hapidance:

How do you unscrew the round posts? They just seem to spin freely...
Also, can you recommend any “ must have” tools to have to make my life easier ?

If you want to reuse them, put an old rubber on them (or leave the old on) and grab it with some pliers. There should be (if I understand these correctly) a nut on the bottom of the playfield that you can then unscrew. Or, if you use a drill with a socket attachment (that's a nice tool to have) you can probably just unscrew the nut with it. There is enough initial torque to just spin the nut off without spinning the post.

IF there is no nut on the bottom they are wood screws on the post and you have to unscrew the post. Usually if this is the case they have a nut around the bottom of them that you can use a tall socket on. Either way, if they are covered by a rubber then worst case you can use vice grips to unscrew them or hold them since they will be covered up again.

Good soldering iron, good wire strippers, drill, socket attachment, sockets. I try to use my drill as much as possible, speeds up the work and keeps my arms from getting messed up. Just be careful when putting back together, sometimes a screwdriver is better.

#24 4 years ago
Quoted from Houkaka:

Not a competition by any means, but how bad does your ramp looks like?
Mine looked like that and I'm surprised that my playfield survived to a rusted ball full of dents from hitting the "repaired" entrance of the ramp.
[quoted image]

My old ramp.

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#25 4 years ago

I can’t seem to stop taking pieces off and cleaning them. It’s amazing how many crappy repairs you find.
Here’s a before and, keys say still cleaning.

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#26 4 years ago

I’m planning on installing some BriteCaps EVO Pop Bumper Lighting.
It’s not original but looks like a fun addition.
I’ve also ordered an assortment of additional LEDs for the play-field and back box.
To gain access to all of the pop bumpers I’m going to have to remove the cyclone ramp. I wasn’t planning on it, but I may as well polish the ramp hardware too.

#27 4 years ago

harryhoudini is right.
A cordless screwdriver or drill is a nice to have when taking a playfield apart or even when repopulating a new reproduction one.
The lighter is your drill the better it will be for you.
Anb a screwdriver is a perfect tool for repopulating an old playfield that has it's holes already made since you can feel the torque that way and stop when needed.
When repopulating a playfield, I wouldn't recommend using a drill that you can't set the power/clutch to low levels, whether it's an old or a reproduction one. It may seems trivial, but, by past experience both personal and with customer, a nice to know in order to prevent stripping is to always start at the lowest clutch level. If the mechanism doesn't slip before the screw reaches the end, STOP RIGHT THERE AND USE A LESS POWERFUL DRILL OR A SCREWDRIVER.
If the Mechanism slips before the screw reaches the end, simply crank the power by 1 until the screw is holding the part securely and there's no wobble. If you've set it right, you should be able to go full
By the way, over torquing your screws/nuts doesn't make the part more secured and you'll only damage your playfield, hardware threads and/or any plastic parts.

Most people I've met simply use their drill as if it was an impact driver, always at the highest power. Ripping head of countless screws and stripping bits and then whining that the tool, the screws, the bits or whatever they want to put the fault on is garbage and poorly made and that they'll never buy a tool of that company or screws from that store. Most of the times, more powerful doesn't mean more qualified for the job.
Use the right tool for the right job and know how to use it.
I once worked in a hardware store and it would happen at least 3 to 4 times per weeks during the peak of the deck season that wannabe entrepreneur would come back mad because they think they are qualified for the 10,000$ deck he saw online or in a decking magazine.

If I can add anything...
-a phone or anything to take pictures and keep track of your progress
-a permanent marker and green tape to label wires if needed
-Hex magnetic socket drives are one of the tools I'm glad I've had when I started working on my playfield.
I think you'll need a 1/4 drive for hex screws under the playfield if I'm right.
-A magnetic tray is also a nice to have.
For soldering...
-Flux paste
-Helper hands with an heavy base to hold your wires can be a great help.
-desoldering pump

#28 4 years ago

I’m quite fond of my power screw driver but for this project I’m all about the hand tools.
Nothing is more than a few turns and then a lil extra for it to be tight but not too tight.

For a “recently shopped machine” it’s got 30 years of gunk under areas.
I haven’t taken them apart but peeking under them I can see 30 years of grime.

Do I keep on systematically continue to take things apart or save some cleaning such as under the pop bumpers
For another day?

I’m thinking keep going but I wanna play my game.

#29 4 years ago

If you want to play soon and plan on shopping it further in the future, you could at least do a full inspection to identify any mechanical or electrical issue, do some typical maintenance work on the mechanisms, inspect everywhere the ball is traveling and make the necessary work in order to make sure the ball won't get damaged during gameplay. This way you'll be sure that the ball finish won't be totally lost within a few days and damage all of your work or replacement parts.

I would at least try to clean as much of the top playfield as I could without de-soldering things, you could skip the pop bumpers since of the light terminals are soldered.

#30 4 years ago
Quoted from Hapidance:

I’m thinking keep going but I wanna play my game.

Just keep going then it will be a several of years before you do it again.

#31 4 years ago

Houkaka,
Yea, I was thinking that myself.
Do it now or do it later.
Kinda funny, I was catching Vid’s video on pop bumpers thinking “here we go”
I think I’m gonna clean as much as I can without disassembling the entire playfield and then take the next step. I need to prove to my wife I can put it all back together and have it work again.

I’ll be posting da Eliot pics as I go.

#32 4 years ago

I started a restore on my JP and was just going to swap playfields... that was all. Then I saw a few broken pieces, ok, ordered those. Then I noticed that the plastics were quite worn, fine, repro set of those. Then I looked in to a few mods, ok... spend a few more there. Then I started looking at the cabinet that I previously touched up and thought I should get some decals, so I am looking in to that and repainting the cabinet.

I started work on my TOM... just had a ramp break that I previously repaired, so I bought the repro ramps. Then I thought I should fix up the playfield a bit, they sell decals. Then I bought a playfield protector. Then I had cliffys to install and an updated part for the trunk. Then I bought an updated board for the trunk. Then I thought I should plate the "brass" colored wire forms.. then I looked in to powder coating all the cabinet parts... then I bought new pop bumper parts, new star posts, etc.

Both are still in pieces but they will be nice when done!

1 week later
#33 4 years ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

LOL! Hilarious, didn't know those were in there. I think it should have been them helping me with the pinball, but we all have our priorities.

#34 4 years ago

Awesome pics!
Nice looking Cyclone.

I recently discovered a buffing wheel and a whole new level of shiny!
What I thought looked good was just clean.

Will anything improve the playfield color other than painting the impossible playfield to paint?
Also,
Finding 1-3 layers of mylar some of which is bubbling.
Ugg
1 thing at a time u suppose.

#35 4 years ago
Quoted from Hapidance:

Awesome pics!
Nice looking Cyclone.
I recently discovered a buffing wheel and a whole new level of shiny!
What I thought looked good was just clean.
Will anything improve the playfield color other than painting the impossible playfield to paint?
Also,
Finding 1-3 layers of mylar some of which is bubbling.
Ugg
1 thing at a time u suppose.

I just got in a buffing wheel kit as well. I also ordered some sanding wheels on a 1/4" mandrel for a die grinder. Should help me polish up all the ball guides. I also got a vibrating polisher that uses walnut media to do the smaller bits. I am doing my JP right now and the parts came out fantastic. They were horrible looking when I put them in.

What is the color issue with the playfield? I went with a CPR playfield because mine was far beyond repair. I don't think there is a hardtop available so unless you want to get into airbrushing and frisket cutting (which isn't all that hard) there isn't a lot of option. I did touchup on my JP playfield and then cleared it and it wasn't all that hard. But I didn't end up going airbrush route because my touchups were really small.

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#36 4 years ago

Nice!
I have (borrowed) a walnut vibrator.
Works well for the smaller parts.

These are the two tall ramp posts.
1st is before
Then the one on the left is after walnut vibrator cleaning.
The one on the rite is after a little buffing.

My playfield isn’t that bad I suppose. I’ve seen MUCH worse. When I see real nice playfield however, I suppose s little bit of
Playfield envy comes out.

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#37 4 years ago
Quoted from Hapidance:

Nice!
I have (borrowed) a walnut vibrator.
Works well for the smaller parts.
These are the two tall ramp posts.
1st is before
Then the one on the left is after walnut vibrator cleaning.
The one on the rite is after a little buffing.
My playfield isn’t that bad I suppose. I’ve seen MUCH worse. When I see real nice playfield however, I suppose s little bit of
Playfield envy comes out.[quoted image][quoted image]

NICE!

#38 4 years ago

How did you get the Ferris wheel clear side so clear .Also do you know if the sticker for the side of the Ferris wheel for the hurricane will fit the cyclones Ferris wheel?

#39 4 years ago
Quoted from Hapidance:

How did you get the Ferris wheel clear side so clear .Also do you know if the sticker for the side of the Ferris wheel for the hurricane will fit the cyclones Ferris wheel?

Me? I think I was lucky and my machine was in pretty good shape. I took it all apart and cleaned it. I think Novus 1 works well on that. I have no idea about the sticker.

1 week later
#40 4 years ago
Quoted from Hapidance:

do you know if the sticker for the side of the Ferris wheel for the hurricane will fit the cyclones Ferris wheel?

Both Cyclone's and Hurricane's Ferris wheels has the same base part number, the only physical difference between them is the color of the plastic. Cyclone's one is red while Hurricane has two, a red and a blue one.
So Yes, the sticker for the side of the Ferris wheel for the hurricane will fit the cyclones Ferris wheel.

By the way, the Blue, Red and Green Williams Parts Catalogs are a more reliable source for parts quantities and p/n than the individual machines parts manual from my experience. Items from Marcospeciality are still listed or at least refers to the original P/N if obsoleted listed from those Catalogs. In short, those are the best tools you can use when looking for specific or unlisted parts and even sometimes (too frequently to my taste) parts misidentified in the parts manual.

---
(I'm not sure if I'll do it, but I'll may possibly create a dedicated topic for this post, we'll see if I have the time)
Continue reading if you wish to know more behind the hypothetical meaning of the wheels part number.
Or maybe you are just geek of factory standards and a bit fanatic of the way's of doing that makes the backbones of a company, which may be weird for some buuuuut I don't care. You do you, I do me. It's not my fault if you feel like you wasted your time reading something you don't even care about.
---
Maybe I'm wrong on this, but at least it's logical. Don't quote me on that tho, I haven't verified if it applies to all similar situations!

So here's my thinking:
First, we need to make sure that the Ferris wheels from Cyclone and Hurricane have the same (or a similar) part number.
If we compare the P/N from each Ferris wheels in the Blue (p.5-35) and the Red (p.7-38) William's Parts Catalog, we can tell that both machines uses the exact same part red wheel baring the same P/N, 03-8124, and that Hurricanes also uses a variation of that P/N which is affiliated to the blue wheel, 03-8124-1.
From that fact, we can clearly tell that both color variations bares the same base part number, 03-8124.

So here's where the theory begins.
We know for a fact that Cyclone (1988) came out before Hurricane (1991), so the red wheel logically has the initial production part number baring the no dash number (or the -0 if you feel calling it that way). Following that logic, when a part is based on an already produced design and only has a variation that won't affect the tooling/the mold (I'll come back to that latter) like the color of the plastic or a print applied on the part, the identification of that part will bare the originals P/N with a -X, -1 in our case, added at the end which would means variation 1 for production. This way of doing leads to cost savings in many departments like engineering (no new part to design), production (no new tools to design, make or buy. Maybe there was even a ton of already made replacements parts that didn't sold as intended on the aftermarket), aftermarket (more profitable to produce parts that are used on more than one machine) and so on.

About that tooling thing I mentioned previously, you may remember that Pin-bot and Jack-bot are almost literally the same machines. Following my theory, you may be thinking that the spiral ramps from those two would bare the same base part number since the black one from Jack*Bot should be a variation (-1) of the red ramp (-0) from Pinbot right? Well you would be wrong since both ramps don't use the same base P/N or even refer to each other P/N.
-Black Ramp: A-20080 SPIRAL ASSEMBLY RAMP
-Red Ramp: B-11152 VORTEX CORKSCREW RAMP
So why is that? Well if you didn't knew, Jack*Bot spiral ramp design is slightly different than the one from it's predecessor since the top of the red ramps was prone to breaking over time. Therefore, since the thickness of the guide at the top of the ramps was greater on the redesigned part, it meant that the original molds from the first P/N couldn't be used without them at least being retooled to fit the new required shape. And I'm not talking of a mold being retooled because of wear, by retooling I mean modifying for a part with different requirement (shape, size, definition). And since that meant new dimensions, it meant new planning for the production and new documents for that parts. In that case, the base P/N drives the shape and the dimensions which drives the tooling design, production planning (more on that at the end), inspection and many more which all related doc probably are identified with a similar P/N. If the base design is revised, then it's easy and takes less time and effort to flowdown the changes since each dash number refer to the no dash documents.
In a nutshell, if a parts doesn't change in shape or form, a variation (dash No.) is made in order to use the same process than the original first production release part (no dash/[-0]) to cut cost, save time and be more effective.

Oh and I can already, from the confort of my living room while eating a fresh made poutine (as all good true Quebecois do), hear some of you saying from across the border: "Then please tell us why is the reproduction spiral ramps still using the same B-11152 P/N and not A-20080-1 even tho we know that they were made from A-20080 SPIRAL ASSEMBLY RAMP mold used by Williams (or its subsidiary) during the production of Pinbot?"
Let me put down my still unfinished poutine a second (which is be considered as a sacrilege by many) to let me give you the following answer:
Go read a bit about the Williams/Bally Licence owned by Planetary Pinball please.
http://www.planetarypinball.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=WB_LICENSE
http://www.planetarypinball.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=ABUS
Other than that, from what I can tell, the naming convention of part at Williams only apply to parts produced and designed by Williams up till they ceased producing titles in the Pinball market. Reproduction parts will still use the original P/N even if there are some changes made to the part only because a third party is producing genuine replacement part of an already existing design under licence of Williams Electronics Games, Inc.
Which, in a nutshell means, the third party owns the exclusive right to produce a Williams/Bally replacement part (that is functionally speaking a copy of the original design) for a define or indefinite amount of time. If Williams Electronics Games, Inc. was still in the pinball market and they were the one that produced a replacement red ramps, I'm quite sure and I would bet on that, it would be identified A-20080-1.

Another thing that supports my theory is the fact that the color of the part is always at the end of the part's naming if included in the description, whether it's between parenthesis or after a comma. The Ferris wheel (#03-8124), pop bumper caps (03-9007-XX, 03-8254-XX, 03-7444-XX, etc) and star posts (03-7542-XX) are some great examples.

About production planning, you can tell that the P/N does follow a pattern betweens parts and within assembly.
For instance, the next higher assembly for A-20080 SPIRAL ASSEMBLY RAMP is A-20080-D RAMP W/DECALS which only adds -D(ecals).
Other parts that are specific to and of the same final assembly are all named under a similar patern or family. For example, parts within the Ferris wheel assembly are all named with parts number close to each other and have a logic behind them that I won't get into:
03-8124 Ferris wheel
03-8125 Cover, Ferris wheel
03-8126 Washer
03-8145 Drive belt
B-11571-1 Motor assembly
B-11899 Bracket assembly
Here are some of the families (Defined in coordination with a subsidiary or totally by Williams designers) you can find:
Some General Parts Family;
01-... Brackets and sheet metal parts
02-... Machined parts
03-... plastic parts
10-... Springs
Some Assemblies Family:
A-... Structure/Bracket Assembly
B-... Mechanical Assembly
C-... Electronic Boards or Assembly
H-... Wiring/Harness Assembly

It's a bit messy right now but there's a lot of useful things to learn from p/n and their naming conventions within a company.

#41 4 years ago

That was a plethora of information.
If I understand you correctly,
In short.... the side decal for the blue Hurricane Ferris wheel will indeed fit the red Ferris wheel on the cyclone as they are essentially the same part but in different colors.
Although it is not original to the Cyclone, I think the addition of the decal would be esthetically pleasing.
It is about having fun with it after all.
An chance you would have the part number handy and better yet, who has one for sale?
Also, you never mentioned the decals part number , letter, prefix.

#42 4 years ago

31-2-50012-4 is the P/N with the decal, there are some on Ebay right now if you search for it.

#43 4 years ago
Quoted from Houkaka:

31-2-50012-4 is the P/N with the decal, there are some on Ebay right now if you search for it.

I did see that thanks!
A bit pricy. I inquired if they were willing to sell only one but no answer.
I hate to be so picky and thrifty but I was hoping to find the decal only and order a new $6 clear Ferris wheel side cover for about the same price or less.

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