Cyclone display issue. Please help

What happens when you run the XPin on-board diagnostics?

viperrwk

#3 10 years ago

ROB

Borygard

LockWhenLit.com

St Louis, MO

11y 90,050 2,915

Red stripe of ribbon cable to pin 1 of the board on *both* sides.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

#4 10 years ago

???

Sir32

Inactive member

Quoted from viperrwk:
What happens when you run the XPin on-board diagnostics?
viperrwk

only all segments of the 8 lights shown (4 on each row come on) nothing on the other 2 groups or the rest of the first 2

and I have tried the cable every way that it fits.

what do you think is the problem? -> viperrwk

#5 10 years ago

FOS

theseadoomaster

Inactive member

Clermont, FL

13y 27,650 107 2

Could be one of the PIA's not sure which one at the moment.

#6 10 years ago

???

Sir32

Inactive member

Quoted from theseadoomaster:
Could be one of the PIA's not sure which one at the moment.

what is a pia?

#7 10 years ago

CMX

viperrwk

Inactive member

If it's not passing the on-board diagnostics, there's something wrong with the display itself as those diagnostics work independent of the CPU board. Contact Brett @ X-Pin: http://xpinpinball.com/pdf/Support%20FAQ_3.pdf

viperrwk

#8 10 years ago

ROB

Borygard

LockWhenLit.com

St Louis, MO

11y 90,050 2,915

Quoted from viperrwk:
If it's not passing the on-board diagnostics, there's something wrong with the display itself as those diagnostics work independent of the CPU board. Contact Brett @ X-Pin: http://xpinpinball.com/pdf/Support%20FAQ_3.pdf
viperrwk

Not necessarily. The display still needs the strobe signal from the CPU for the diagnostics to work.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

#9 10 years ago

CMX

viperrwk

Inactive member

http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/617/Williams_1988_Cyclone_Manual_Schematics.pdf

Quoted from Borygard:
Not necessarily. The display still needs the strobe signal from the CPU for the diagnostics to work.
--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

You're correct of course - I should have been more clear. I should have said the display diagnostics are independent of the machine's diagnostics.

You could try reseating J3 and J4 on the display board as well as 1J1 and 1J2 on the CPU board. Assuming you have no errors on boot up and the machine goes into attract mode and you can play a game then the problem is most likely the display.

If it doesn't boot into attract mode you may indeed have a PIA (Peripheral Interface Adapter chip) problem at U51 on the CPU board. You can run the CPU diagnostics to determine if this is the case. Download from here:

and run the test on numbered page 32 (not PDF page 32.) There's also a sticker in the backbox with this info as well.

Did the CPU board have any battery damage?

viperrwk

#10 10 years ago

???

Sir32

Inactive member

the machine does not go automatically into attract mode and when I have pressed the cpu test button in the past the light all come on and flash and the sound goes through the cycle, the Ferris wheel works etc. this machine is a project machine. although it has all the boards it doesn't mean it will work.
I will check for continuity on J3 - J4 and IJ1 and IJ2 connectors and get back to you.

Thanks for your help so far Guys.

#11 10 years ago

BKZ

BrianZ

Inactive member

Cypress, TX

12y 50,900 1,230 5 43

I had a simular display problem. Viper is on the money. Chances are you have some CPU board damage (assuming you have reseated everything.). Most likely a PIA chip problem. I sent my board to Coin-OP Calderon. Very reasonable and excellent work.

#12 10 years ago

CMX

viperrwk

Inactive member

Any luck?

viperrwk

#13 10 years ago

WIL

jwwhite15

Pinside+ Frequent

13y 105K 2,706 1

OP
Quoted from Sir32:
I have tested the voltages and the at the display power connector I have -102 + 103

Isn't one of the first things you are suppose to do is remove the fuse for the 100v? I believe with the new display being LED you don't need and should remove the 100v. Not saying its the problem but could it add to it?

1 week later

#14 10 years ago

???

Sir32

Inactive member

hi guys,
update: I have talked to the xpin guy and done tests on the display board and replaced the ribbon cable but no luck. I believe that its the mpu board not doing its thing. but have no idea where to start testing it. it powers on and does the ding thing but then I get no other indication that it is working. the board shows no sign of battery damage at all and has not been repaired in any places(not obvious). when I press the test button it goes through the lights etc. and game sounds come through but the screen does not show any ledge able sort of word. I cant find one to buy to change it and see if that is the issue. how do I now if all the boards and the transformer are working. where can I find test procedures to trouble shoot the problem.

thanks all for your help so far I have achieved a greater understanding of this machine. but its not quite there yet.

#15 10 years ago

CMX

viperrwk

Inactive member

OP
Quoted from Sir32:
hi guys,
update: I have talked to the xpin guy and done tests on the display board and replaced the ribbon cable but no luck. I believe that its the mpu board not doing its thing. but have no idea where to start testing it. it powers on and does the ding thing but then I get no other indication that it is working. the board shows no sign of battery damage at all and has not been repaired in any places(not obvious). when I press the test button it goes through the lights etc. and game sounds come through but the screen does not show any ledge able sort of word. I cant find one to buy to change it and see if that is the issue. how do I now if all the boards and the transformer are working. where can I find test procedures to trouble shoot the problem.
thanks all for your help so far I have achieved a greater understanding of this machine. but its not quite there yet.

Start 6 posts up.

viperrwk

#16 10 years ago

???

Sir32

Inactive member

hi viperrwk,
I have checked J3 and J4 on the display board as well as 1J1 and 1J2 all getting good signal board to board. I have how ever checked the power at the main power plug and am getting some odd voltages. 3j1 connector
4 - 94.5vac
9 - 0
10 - 10.94vac
11 - 10.94vac
12 - 0

is this normal? would lack of power stop the cpu from starting up?
cpu board power connector ij17
4-6 = 5vdc
8- -15.9vdc
9- 10.4vdc

maybe I need some professional help. I feel way out of depth.
regards,

#17 10 years ago

KLB

kbliznick

Firebird Pinball

Phoenix, AZ

11y 63,900 2,438 5 4

Send mpu out for repairs. This is most likely a bad 16-1 decoder chip just to the right of the battery holder or the pia that feeds it. This decoder takes 4 outputs from the pia and converts that into the 16 digit strobes. If the 4 lighting digits work correctly you likely have 12 bad outputs. If the 4 lit digits are scrambled or change really quickly its likely a stuck inputs to the decoder ( or 2 stuck outputs from athe pia)

The decoder is a 74154 ( or 74514 I forget which) and the pia is a 6821.

#18 10 years ago

???

Sir32

Inactive member

Thanks. Are my able to do this myself? And where can I get parts for this repair. Would I socket this for future repair.

#19 10 years ago

KLB

kbliznick

Firebird Pinball

Phoenix, AZ

11y 63,900 2,438 5 4

If you don't have any previous board repair experience (removing chips and replacing them) then a system 11 MPU is not the place to start.

I pretty much always socket chips when replacing them.

#20 10 years ago

???

Sir32

Inactive member

hi kbliznick,
is it normal for 5 wires to be all shorted out when I test between the display board and the 74154 chip? or does that mean its buggered? and who sells the chip that I need?

-sir32

#21 10 years ago

KLB

kbliznick

Firebird Pinball

Phoenix, AZ

11y 63,900 2,438 5 4

great plains electronics (my source for 95% of my electronic parts) has the decoder chip but not the PIA's.

Those outputs should not be shorted together (those 16 signals should go to some resistor networks before heading to the Molex connectors on the MPU board). Think you should see 4.7K ohms from each output to ground and probably double that from each output to the other.

It's the 74154 at U44. It gets its' signals from 2,3,4 and 5 from the 6821PIA at U51. The 16 signals from the decode go through 2 resistor networks at SRC7 and SRC8. These head to the Molex connectors at J1 and J2 on the MPU. (not the ribbon connector)
The strobes that are turning on the first 4 strobes on the board are I believe pins 5,6,7,9 on J1.

2 weeks later

#22 10 years ago

???

Sir32

Inactive member

hi kbliznick,
Success! it was definitely the 74154N chip on the main board. when I fixed that and turned it on it all worked like a dream. Thankyou to all the others for your help it was much appreciated.

#23 10 years ago

CMX

viperrwk

Inactive member